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This game is too easy. Some Thoughts and concerns.


Guest Keejhle

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Personnally I'm an inactive player and know many others who are waiting for the game to be more polished to start playing again. If there's no reset on release, I am not sure I will at all come back. I don't see why players waiting for a polished game experience should start playing at release at huge disadvantage vs people playing now. It was initially planned to wipe on release so lets stick to terms agreed and do it. 

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4 minutes ago, JeronimoBeyond said:

Personnally I'm an inactive player and know many others who are waiting for the game to be more polished to start playing again. If there's no reset on release, I am not sure I will at all come back. I don't see why players waiting for a polished game experience should start playing at release at huge disadvantage vs people playing now. It was initially planned to wipe on release so lets stick to terms agreed and do it. 

Thats like saying they should reset Eve online because I just started playing it and ppl that have been playing for years have a huge advantage. Dual universe did wipe a couple of months ago. Eve has been out for years.

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2 minutes ago, DarkAster said:

Thats like saying they should reset Eve online because I just started playing it and ppl that have been playing for years have a huge advantage.

No Eve is released. Not Dual which is still full bugs, poor fps, and poor graphics. Not even near feature complete status. From that angle Dual is more an alpha disguised in Beta. 

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That is even less reason for ppl to get wipe who endure all the bugs. Whatever state the game is in(in any game for that matter)should not warrant a reset because ppl are behind. It is a choice to play or not play the game now.(even with the bugs you're still missing out btw I have more playtime in this game than most the $60+ games I've played)

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14 minutes ago, DarkAster said:

I have more playtime in this game than most the $60+ games I've played)

 

I have a lot of gameplay hours, but still nowhere near other games (1000 hours, 3000 hours ...). And I paid 10 times more than what you mention. That still does not mean much at this time, and they should revamp everything possible, add more exploration, lore, optimize, and and and ... there is a TON of things which they should do.
I also don't care about a reset - they can give me magic blueprints for the ship I constructed and apart from that, haven't built anything much yet (apart from a pyramid and a Stargate).

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16 hours ago, Teufelaffe said:

I feel like you're not quite meshing with what NQ appears to be creating here.  They're creating a virtual galaxy for players to do what they want in.  That's why there's no NPCs, no arbitrary limits on PvP outside of safe zones (plus plans to eliminate the safe zone around every planet outside the starting three), and eventually no market bots.  There's no "winning" or "losing" and thus no point to declaring something as "too easy."  The niche roles will happen "naturally," as not every player is going to want to interact with every possible gameplay loop.  If your Org does a lot of PvP, someone is going to have to make sure that ammo, fuel, and scrap are in plentiful supply.  BAM, there's your support role.  Not everyone is going to want to spend time designing ships that are effective in combat, so someone is going to have to do that work.  BAM, there's your "ship guy."  Will there be some Orgs that won't do that?  Of course, but Org A where everyone is doing a little bit of everything all at once is not going to have any inherent advantage over Org B who has specialists filling specific roles.  In fact, it's quite possible that Org B will have the advantage because their specialists can focus on their roles and not dilute their time, energy, and resources across multiple tasks.

 

DU is, above all, centered around "emergent gameplay".  Which means it's up to us, not NQ, to create these niches or roles.

 

 

I have been playing this game now for about 3 weeks and I tend to disagree with that statement above and rather agree with the initial statement that the game is too easy. If the above was so true, then you do not need any skillpoints at all.

 

Basically I think a lot can be done around the skills and I am inspired by Eve Online and would have loved to something similar here. However what I found is that everyone can do everything from the beginning and the skills are "merely" done for them to do it better (more efficient, faster, better). I would have loved that skills unlock certain things like for example:

- Lower skills you can only place XS cores and interact with ships of XS cores.  As such some people might focus on smaller ships and only later go up to Large Cores

- Lower skills allow you to only produce certain products and skills unlock products

- Lower skills do not allow you to mine/refine certain minerals

- Lower skills do not allow you to use certain voxels,

-... etc... the possibilities are infinite here

 

I hope you get my point, basically the skill based tree brings you through the game slowly but surely and within a certain amount of time you are able to do most of the things and then focus on specialisation. (I.e. copy the skill tree of Eve Online which I think is the best skill tree I have see up to now).

 

This will also avoid that players within 3 weeks do have warp drives and can go anywhere they want and do anything they want without worrying about any PVP.

 

my 50 cents.

 

PS: I am in favor of a restart even if it is shortly before release....

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1 hour ago, Ochiniwa said:

Basically I think a lot can be done around the skills and I am inspired by Eve Online and would have loved to something similar here. However what I found is that everyone can do everything from the beginning and the skills are "merely" done for them to do it better (more efficient, faster, better). I would have loved that skills unlock certain things like for example:

- Lower skills you can only place XS cores and interact with ships of XS cores.  As such some people might focus on smaller ships and only later go up to Large Cores

- Lower skills allow you to only produce certain products and skills unlock products

- Lower skills do not allow you to mine/refine certain minerals

- Lower skills do not allow you to use certain voxels,

-... etc... the possibilities are infinite here

Yeah... lets time gate everything fun. So - buy the game, set talent queue, login after a month or three to actually start playing. Great idea. Totally against it. 

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On 11/3/2020 at 5:45 AM, Ochiniwa said:

I have been playing this game now for about 3 weeks and I tend to disagree with that statement above and rather agree with the initial statement that the game is too easy. If the above was so true, then you do not need any skillpoints at all.

 

Basically I think a lot can be done around the skills and I am inspired by Eve Online and would have loved to something similar here. However what I found is that everyone can do everything from the beginning and the skills are "merely" done for them to do it better (more efficient, faster, better). I would have loved that skills unlock certain things like for example:

- Lower skills you can only place XS cores and interact with ships of XS cores.  As such some people might focus on smaller ships and only later go up to Large Cores

- Lower skills allow you to only produce certain products and skills unlock products

- Lower skills do not allow you to mine/refine certain minerals

- Lower skills do not allow you to use certain voxels,

-... etc... the possibilities are infinite here

 

I hope you get my point, basically the skill based tree brings you through the game slowly but surely and within a certain amount of time you are able to do most of the things and then focus on specialisation. (I.e. copy the skill tree of Eve Online which I think is the best skill tree I have see up to now).

 

This will also avoid that players within 3 weeks do have warp drives and can go anywhere they want and do anything they want without worrying about any PVP.

 

my 50 cents.

 

PS: I am in favor of a restart even if it is shortly before release....

Yeah, I don't know about this. These "infinite" possibilities you're suggesting are only effective in terms of how they will time-gate content from players and for no particularly good reason. For example, it doesn't matter if players can or can't mine high tier ore without first training a skill because that ore isn't something they would personally have any need for right away and mining it for money is going to be far less efficient than pursuing other avenues to make money.

 

Skill training as a concept is advantageous not because it time-gates content from players (that is its greatest weakness), but rather because it allows players to progress in the game without having to grind for XP, which has long been considered one of the worst aspects of MMOs. If you just change skill training into another grind, then all you've done is replaced one grind for another, one that players have even less control over.

 

I quite like the fact that skills in DU don't so much as gate content as they enhance it (getting more return on refining things, more damage from guns, etc.) because that doesn't prevent specialization, but it does prevent new players from feeling like they're useless. Take EVE as an example. Surely you'll remember recruitment posts from corporations requiring that applicants meet certain skill point minimums. That was and is incredibly disheartening to new players looking to join groups and experience the best parts of the game. And, of course, there was nothing more frustrating than looking at ship you want to fly in EVE and then realizing that you'll have to wait for weeks or even months before you can even fly it badly.

 

Ultimately, you can incentivize specialization without straight up preventing players from being able to interact with certain aspects of the game, and that is the direction DU should probably go.

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Frankly, the point OP makes is a fair one. I can see many backers who choose to stay out until the game has a more polished feel and has the major bugs, unbalanced mechanics and exploits fixed.

 

It's also fair to say that as the game is "infected" with the results of those issues, not all of which NQ will be able to repair, that a wipe at release is not an unreasonable expectation or suggestion and that NQ may well be losing players, not see player return and/or get a "bad rep" for this reason. I also see the point that NQ wants to maintain the work players have put in now that IMO they have been forced to open up the game in the state it is in currently.

 

In the end I do believe that a wipe, at least once the game balance is in a way better place and the currently known exploits have been plugged but at the latest shortly before "release" (2-4 weeks), will benefit the game in the long run and have a far lesser impact on the game and player count as many seem to want to imply.

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On 10/28/2020 at 1:04 AM, jsam333 said:

The devs should take note that the 2 most popular forum topics in the last couple weeks or so are either new players asking to refund/unsub, and old players saying there needs to be a wipe before release(after all core game features are implemented).

 

 we saw huge bases   being placed on Pvp planets with no actual pvp players  ,no wonder they want wieghtless bp wipe  they cant defend nothing

 

 

 

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I think SOME kind of wipe needs to occur, but I can see why people don't want it. I've been burnt out by more than one beta wipe.

 

Part of the fun is beginning the game fresh with everyone, so the player base early on is generally on the same level on content and interacts more. Imagine launching and new players login to see the economy at a progressed state and every meaningful territory is already taken. Entire planets mined out, and most of the player base in other systems having already established dominion over valuable space. You basically have to fall in line with established order, or get crushed (we're talking final state, here).

 

The solution has to be somewhere in the middle.

 

For one, I think it's insanely unfair that you'd be able to keep things like territory going into launch. Perhaps rather than getting 1-2 units at launch, you get to KEEP 1-2 units in place, as a territory reservation of sorts. Everything else goes away. You use a consumable while on a hex you own, then get a prompt "Do you want to reserve this tile for Launch? If so, you will have X reservations remaining. [Yes]/[No]." Boom. Done.

 

Regarding constructs, magic BPs is basically making the wipe meaningless, as it's a game about gathering resources and progressing. Keeping BPs, absolutely, but being able to spawn every construct you have a BP for isn't a wipe - it's an ore reset and actually favors EXISTING players more, because they have a leg up in gathering the renewed ores WAY before a standard launch player because all the tools to do so are there day one. (at least if I'm understanding what's implied by "magic"). It's, frankly, just about as hollow a gesture as I can imagine. The very next day, everything would be the same when players re-pop their constructs. Seriously.

 

Now, perhaps "semi-magic" BPs, where once you have the skills to actually MAKE the constructs materials (including industry/assembly pre-reqs, and yes a skill wipe), THEN you can spawn it. That way, you're not shooting off to the races, leaving the noobs behind, with incentive to play the game fresh. And it should probably be limited to only a few "Reserved" BPs. Ex: You get 1-4 BP tokens based on tier (beta players getting just the one), which gives you 1-4 semi-magic BP spawns when you meet the skill reqs. Some people will favor their most prized works, others will use this to hoard expensive and timely elements/materials. (All container content will not make the trip to launch, similar to one of the alpha wipes.) Choose wisely.

 

As for the skills system being too easy, I kind of disagree, but I just started back and the last time I played was well before it's implementation. Some skills take days, and time locking access to content is also a big no-no in this type of game (as someone suggested) - it stifles interactivity and mentor-ship. But I get the desire for specialization meaning something, though!

 

I think the XP should be scaled up considerably, BUT you should be given a stacking XP bonus over the standard 90 or whatever, IF you train skills in a tree consecutively. Once you move from one tree (tab) to another, it resets back to the default queue amount and won't increase until you begin specializing again. Also, you only get the bonus upon COMPLETING a training, not simply for queuing it. That way, you can be a jack of all trades at a much slower pace, or you can specialize and progress in that tree much faster. The overall speed would be the same as now, but only if you take it one job at a time and gain momentum in a particular discipline. Lower level things should open up kind of easy, but the curve should be steeper/more rewarding on the back end and encourage players to take on/perfect various roles.

 

Just some ideas. I dunno.

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On 11/3/2020 at 12:55 PM, Elrood said:

Yeah... lets time gate everything fun. So - buy the game, set talent queue, login after a month or three to actually start playing. Great idea. Totally against it. 

 

That can easily be fixed by talent points not increasing offline - or even better, only increasing by corresponding gameplay (e.g. mining skills increase by mining only, piloting skills by piloting and so on).

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11 hours ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

 

That can easily be fixed by talent points not increasing offline - or even better, only increasing by corresponding gameplay (e.g. mining skills increase by mining only, piloting skills by piloting and so on).

If you make it so that talent points don't increase while offline, all you've effectively done is forced players to idle while staying logged into the server, which is a terrible idea from multiple perspectives (forces players to keep computers on, potentially stresses the server unnecessarily, to name the big ones). Giving people bonuses for accomplishing things isn't a bad idea though, and it technically already exists in the game in the form of bonus talent points from achievements.

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23 hours ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

 

That can easily be fixed by talent points not increasing offline - or even better, only increasing by corresponding gameplay (e.g. mining skills increase by mining only, piloting skills by piloting and so on).

That could end up locking players into sudo-classes based on what they managed to get their hands on with very high investment if you want to change your main occupation.
But on the plus side it would cut really nicely into offline alts - which would from my point of view be an improvement.

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