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What happens when all resources are mined?

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1 hour ago, Kezzle said:

What I meant was, that he didn't flat out say "Oh, there's plenty of stuff in the ground. You lot haven't started scratching at it yet!" or words to that effect

 

They have. They have flat out said that it would take over a year of people mining full time to just clear Alioth.

 

Look this resource thing has been talked about since 2016.

 

Devs have said that they do HAVE the ability to re-seed ore. Either by respawning underground deposits or as fallen ore asteroids. They CAN do this but do not plan to. They plan to expand the universe and add other new sources of ore like asteroids etc.

 

The respawning of resources is absolutely not a real concern for DU.

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12 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

They have. They have flat out said that it would take over a year of people mining full time to just clear Alioth.

 

Look this resource thing has been talked about since 2016.

 

Devs have said that they do HAVE the ability to re-seed ore. Either by respawning underground deposits or as fallen ore asteroids. They CAN do this but do not plan to. They plan to expand the universe and add other new sources of ore like asteroids etc.

 

The respawning of resources is absolutely not a real concern for DU.

Respawning asteroids in deep space (deeps space being relative I suppose) would be super cool. Especially if there was a cool way to search for them. 

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4 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Respawning asteroids in deep space (deeps space being relative I suppose) would be super cool. Especially if they were outside the safe zone.

I fixed that for you

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5 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

I fixed that for you

Thanks, I was implying that. Like father away you go in SU better/high tier ore you get.  A good asteroid say 350 SU in a random directions count net you TONs of ore, you'd need a crew to mine it all in a timely manner. Stuff like that. And would be good group activity as pirates will be about. So either risk it and go for big haul solo, or bring defenders,  etc. Could be a super fun gameplay loop.

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4 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Thanks, I was implying that. Like father away you go in SU better/high tier ore you get.  A good asteroid say 350 SU in a random directions count net you TONs of ore, you'd need a crew to mine it all in a timely manner. Stuff like that. And would be good group activity as pirates will be about. So either risk it and go for big haul solo, or bring defenders,  etc. Could be a super fun gameplay loop.

It would help with the monotony of mining and the lack of purpose of everything outside the safe zone.

 

There is no sane reason to be in the pvp areas right now.

 

I hope both asteroids and the upcoming exploration mechanics create a reason for the pvp area to exist besides as a noob trap.

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8 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

It would help with the monotony of mining and the lack of purpose of everything outside the safe zone.

 

There is no sane reason to be in the pvp areas right now.

 

I hope both asteroids and the upcoming exploration mechanics create a reason for the pvp area to exist besides as a noob trap.

Definitely agree. The asteroids also give reason for people to go in deeper random parts of space.  Maybe make a valuable ore that only spawns on asteroids and it's rare too. 

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23 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Definitely agree. The asteroids also give reason for people to go in deeper random parts of space.  Maybe make a valuable ore that only spawns on asteroids and it's rare too. 

Also makes it a locus of conflict with pirates, private and org security, salvagers, etc.

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51 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Definitely agree. The asteroids also give reason for people to go in deeper random parts of space.  Maybe make a valuable ore that only spawns on asteroids and it's rare too. 

Really I would be perfectly fine with same ores just MUCH faster to harvest. 

 

I'll happily risk my L hauler in pvp space if it takes me 10 minutes to fill vs an hour.

 

Frankly my biggest issue with DU is just how much time I have to sink into mining vs everything else. I will absolutely risk my ship to save time. I would assume others who have run out of things to watch on netflix while mining feel the same way.

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17 hours ago, Mordgier said:

It would help with the monotony of mining and the lack of purpose of everything outside the safe zone.

 

There is no sane reason to be in the pvp areas right now.

 

I hope both asteroids and the upcoming exploration mechanics create a reason for the pvp area to exist besides as a noob trap.

The reason why there is no reason to go to pvp zone, is that pvp is not ready, when it is, then we will see opening up of pvp further into the game.   The pvp zone is currently a placeholder for those that want to try pvp, anyone else dying there only has themselves to blame.  ZERO reason to enter pvp zone other than the couple of planet that WD just outside of it (which will apparently be fixed soon)

 

Are you in an org?  Most orgs will have people mining that like to mine and people that dont, doing other things.  We have several players who have never mined a single node.

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6 hours ago, Moosegun said:

Are you in an org?  Most orgs will have people mining that like to mine and people that dont, doing other things.  We have several players who have never mined a single node.

Sure I am - but not in a mega org and while my primary focus has been industry, sometimes the ore monitor turns red and the mining tool has to come out. 

 

Our modest factory can chew through a full L of T1 ore in ~40 minutes. This effectively means that you need 2 people mining full time to keep it flowing.

 

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On 9/20/2020 at 1:35 PM, Moosegun said:

270,000 tiles on Alioth alone (a rough estimate less than 5% of them gone), + surface ore, + other planets, + market bots (+others sources in the future).  Are you basing this on anything more than a suspicion?  Any actually statistical evidence it will run out, or are you just sticking your finger in the air?  If it is the later, I will move along, there is nothing to see here.

Oh and your ore on sanctuary moon - it is a crutch.....
 

I do hope they get rid of bots in the near future, they kinda ruin the idea of no NPCs in the game.

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1 minute ago, w1r3dh4ck3r said:

I do hope they get rid of bots in the near future, they kinda ruin the idea of no NPCs in the game.

I am not sure how quanta will be injected into the economy without bots.

 

The 100k a day per account isn't realistic as the only source of quanta.

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21 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

I am not sure how quanta will be injected into the economy without bots.

 

The 100k a day per account isn't realistic as the only source of quanta.

Yeah there is that issue, so you see bots not going away ever? that would suck but again it would be worse if there where other MMO mechanics like raids and missions to inject money in the economy.

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2 hours ago, Mordgier said:

I am not sure how quanta will be injected into the economy without bots.

 

The 100k a day per account isn't realistic as the only source of quanta.

Lets say 10,000 players, times 100k, equals 1,000,000,000 per day entering into the eco. FAR more than enter via bots imho, they do serve a purpose though, one which is soon to end thankfully.

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9 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

Lets say 10,000 players, times 100k, equals 1,000,000,000 per day entering into the eco. FAR more than enter via bots imho, they do serve a purpose though, one which is soon to end thankfully.

You are not considering the velocity of money - https://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/velocity.asp

 

The 100k given to people who log in and do nothing with it isn't actually entering the market in the same way that ore sold to people who constantly interact with the market does. People sell ore to bots to buy things. People who sell things do so to buy things etc - money entered via ore bots will continue to change hands as it's being given to active market players.

 

Money given to players who do not interact with the market isn't really in the economy. It's cash in a mattress. 

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10 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

Lets say 10,000 players, times 100k, equals 1,000,000,000 per day entering into the eco. FAR more than enter via bots imho, they do serve a purpose though, one which is soon to end thankfully.

Bots cant go until we get full element destruction and territory warfare. Stuff like containers atm never leave the game world. So selling them to players is pretty pointless atm, and the demand is so low.  All for fully driven player market, but its not ready yet as the loops arent complete.  Mine -> Refine -> Build -> Destroy -> Repeat.

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44 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Bots cant go until we get full element destruction and territory warfare. Stuff like containers atm never leave the game world. So selling them to players is pretty pointless atm, and the demand is so low.  All for fully driven player market, but its not ready yet as the loops arent complete.  Mine -> Refine -> Build -> Destroy -> Repeat.

I havent sold a single thing to bots, market demand is very high at the moment.  I have amassed a great deal of wealth PURELY by selling on the market from day 2 of the game, not sold a SINGLE piece of ore, not touched a bot.

 

53 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

 

You are not considering the velocity of money - https://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/velocity.asp

 

The 100k given to people who log in and do nothing with it isn't actually entering the market in the same way that ore sold to people who constantly interact with the market does. People sell ore to bots to buy things. People who sell things do so to buy things etc - money entered via ore bots will continue to change hands as it's being given to active market players.

 

Money given to players who do not interact with the market isn't really in the economy. It's cash in a mattress. 

What?  Seriously, WHAT?  You think that the 100k given to each player each day is NOT SPENT?  Jesus wept, this forum sometimes.......

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4 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

What?  Seriously, WHAT?  You think that the 100k given to each player each day is NOT SPENT?  Jesus wept, this forum sometimes.......

Yes.

 

If you have evidence to the contrary I'd love to see it. I have not bought anything on the market. Most of the people in my org have not bothered to either. 

 

Your tone is uncalled for.

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7 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

Yes.

 

If you have evidence to the contrary I'd love to see it. I have not bought anything on the market. Most of the people in my org have not bothered to either. 

 

Your tone is uncalled for.

My total wealth is over 300million quanta, made COMPLETELY from selling stuff to players lol.  Enough evidence for you?  Sorry about 'my tone' just getting a bit fed of of people with no clue making ridiculous statements as if they are fact. People dont use markets........... FMOB

 

Oh and if you think posting a link to a websites back up your argument, here you go - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

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7 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

My total wealth is over 300million quanta, made from selling stuff to players lol.  Enough evidence for you?  Sorry about 'my tone' just getting a bit fed of of people with no clue making ridiculous statements as if they are fact.

 

Oh and if you think posting a link to a websites back up your argument, here you go - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

The irony of your post is clearly lost on you.

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17 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

The irony of your post is clearly lost on you.

Sorry are you saying i am lying lol, refer back to Dunning Kruger........  you wanted proof i gave it to you, my wealth comes entirely from players on markets, sorry if that flies in the face of what you are you org mates do.

How would you like me to prove it, show you my 2000+ market notifications, or the 50+ orders a day I get, or take you on a tour of my many space ships (think I have 16) or my planetary bases (I have 9), or my spacestation could show you that, or the 50,000,000+ quanta I have in outstanding stock on the market, or the 50,000,000 quanta I hold in cash all the time?  Can show you that if you want proof.  Seriously, hook me up, can stream you as much proof as you need...... you wont though lol

It is cool though, if you and you org mates dont buy anything, noone does, right?

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24 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

Sorry are you saying i am lying lol, refer back to Dunning Kruger........  you wanted proof i gave it to you, my wealth comes entirely from players on markets, sorry if that flies in the face of what you are you org mates do.

 

This is as productive as trying to explain economics to a tree stump - but here we go:

 

You having 300 million does not indicate that it came from login rewards.

 

It doesn't matter that you sold to players. What matters is that the players who sold to bots got money that they spent on your sales - which they undoubtedly did. Bots inject more actively used money into the economy than daily logins because people who are selling to bots do so with the intent to spend that money rather than people who just log in, get their 100k and do nothing with it. Many people get 100k on login have no use for it - YOU yourself are a prime example of that 100k not being injected into the economy. As is any player who simply has no need to buy/sell anything or is building their own stuff out of principle. I do not need that 100k because I am surrounded by crates of everything I need. This is why people in the org aren't going to the market - it's more hassle than going to a container.

 

In fact the case that the ONLY reason you have 300m is entirely because of ore bots is far more realistic than the suggestion that it is due to daily login rewards and people rushing to the market to spend their dole payments. People who are on a set income are far more hesitant to spend that income than those who dump L containers of ore on the market.

 

This isn't a "what I do" vs "what you do" issue; yet you keep seeing it as you vs me and yet keep posting personal insults like links to the Dunning Kruger effect and at the same time take a holier than thou attitude as if 'this forum' is beneath you - while clearly failing to see that the things you complain about apply to you. 

 

Good day Sir.

 

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4 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

 

This is as productive as trying to explain economics to a tree stump - but here we go:

 

You having 300 million does not indicate that it came from login rewards.

 

It doesn't matter that you sold to players. What matters is that the players who sold to bots got money that they spent on your sales - which the undoubtedly did. Bots inject more actively used money into the economy than daily logins because people who are selling to bots do so with the intent to spend that money rather than people who just log in, get their 100k and do nothing with it. Many people get 100k on login have no use for it - YOU yourself are a prime example of that 100k not being injected into the economy. As is any player who simply has no need to buy/sell anything or is building their own stuff out of principle. I do not need that 100k because I am surrounded by crates of everything I need. This is why people in the org aren't going to the market - it's more hassle than going to a container.

 

In fact the case that the ONLY reason you have 300m is entirely because of ore bots is far more realistic than the suggestion that it is due to daily login rewards and people rushing to the market to spend their dole payments. People who are on a set income are far more hesitant to spend that income than those who dump L containers of ore on the market.

 

This isn't a "what I do" vs "what you do" issue; yet you keep seeing it as you vs me and yet keep posting personal insults like links to the Dunning Kruger effect and at the same time take a holier than thou attitude as if 'this forum' is beneath you - while clearly failing to see that the things you complain about apply to you. 

 

Good day Sir.

 

No, the buyers use whatever money they have, they dont keep a separate pot of daily log in money do they, there are buyers and sellers, I BUY and SELL, I spent over 20 million today, so again you are completely wrong.  Of course some daily income doesnt get spent, because some people are not buyers, they try to be self sufficient.  To suggest that none of that money makes it way onto the market and it is purely bot money is utterly absurd.

Also, just to point out, anyone selling ore to bots is getting it wrong too lol

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