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Doc_McStabbins

How will Griefers be minimized?

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Before anyone immediately replies "there's already an article on this" or "they already said anything goes" or "if other people don't like it they don't have to play," I wish to point out a few things:

 

1. Humanity is incredibly creative. Especially when it comes to being jerks.

2. There are a nearly infinite numbers of ways the spirit of the game can break easier than the rules.

3. Games depend on players if they want to survive past launch.

 

So, I'm not referring to people who blow you up for straying into their territory, or bases that get raided, or other things that are in the spirit of the game. I'm talking about stuff that can make the game miserable for the majority of players by the hands of the few. For this game to be successful, you need to be able to retain not just those who are either super powerful in-game or capable of finding loop and code loopholes to be jerks, but also retain the other 90% of players who are looking to have fun and aren't super-powerful, and don't want their game ruined by creative-evil.

 

I am asking for serious thought put into this for a solution. In the meantime, I rather like an ingenious one put forth by "Mythic Quest" -- as proof of Griefing or other Jerkism that drives off players is discovered, but is not technically bannable, perhaps their accounts are moved to the Jerk Server, where they only have themselves and other Jerks to mess with.

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I can see this being an issue for me, as I am not a war like individual nor am I big on being part of a huge organization. Kind of the little guy if you will. I could see the little guy getting pushed to join or else or even constantly harassed by "pirates" until they either have to join or just quite. anyone that has played EVE knows this is how Goonswarn started, now they are a huge problem. something has to keep the solar system from being lawless. 

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I don't see it much different. However, I would not say "something has to keep the solar system from being lawless" but "someone or something...". Among the 10 biggest corporations there is a Pirate Corp at the moment, but there are also several corporations that have made it their business to do exactly what you are asking for - the history of EVE has certainly played a part in this. And Novaquark wants the players to shape the universe and the rules in it and will probably not put in any mechanisms that would leave the pirates no options. But it shouldn't be like with EVE that pirates or whoever is controlling the universe indirectly through the extreme profits in the 0Sec areas and because of these profits they expand their military power in the 0Sec areas into invincibility.

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there are pve zones just stay within them and your fine to prevent being griefed you have to build the structure that claims the tile so no one else can build or do anything to it

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On 7/16/2020 at 6:52 PM, Centcom said:

I can see this being an issue for me, as I am not a war like individual nor am I big on being part of a huge organization. Kind of the little guy if you will. I could see the little guy getting pushed to join or else or even constantly harassed by "pirates" until they either have to join or just quite. anyone that has played EVE knows this is how Goonswarn started, now they are a huge problem. something has to keep the solar system from being lawless. 

Same. In Minecraft, I always just preferred to do my own thing on servers, build some pretty stuff and leave it there for others to find or enjoy. The majority of people were cool and didn't mess with my creations, but there were always a couple on any given server that would use Creepers to blow up chunks of it, or use other unintended loopholes to ruin it, when the spirit of the server had been to let it be.

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It is a part of the game. It is not called griefing, it is called attacking. There is PvP for a reason, and that is to be able to attack people. PvP is just a part of the game. You can't just ignore it. Like you can't just ignore that there are TNTs and Creepers in minecraft. I guess that in future updates there are gonna be auto-turrets to shoot down enemy ships, but you just need to set good defense. There is no griefing, since this isn't made to be a peaceful game like minecraft. It is called attacking.

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On 7/31/2020 at 6:40 AM, HasName said:

It is a part of the game. It is not called griefing, it is called attacking. There is PvP for a reason, and that is to be able to attack people. PvP is just a part of the game. You can't just ignore it. Like you can't just ignore that there are TNTs and Creepers in minecraft. I guess that in future updates there are gonna be auto-turrets to shoot down enemy ships, but you just need to set good defense. There is no griefing, since this isn't made to be a peaceful game like minecraft. It is called attacking.

I have to agree with you. Eventually setting up key defensive locations within a base will be needed. It adds more levels of creativity and in my experience in PVP games is that if you make yourself a hard target with good defenses you're less likely to be attacked. A lot of PVP players look for soft targets that don't have defenses. Its not viable for someone to attack a hard target lose half their attacking force in the effort to only get an unknown amount of loot. 

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Griefing is emphatically not just 'attacking', it's "attacking with no in-game reason". The only thing anyone gets out of griefing is the sad lols of people who think raining on other people's parades is funny.

Fortunately, such arbitrary harrassment isn't going to be practicable as a base play style in a universe where everything has to be dug out of the ground by a player, if that's the way the game turns out, and I get the impression that's pretty much the end goal. Griefing takes resources: fuel, ammo, repairs (hopefully, when people make efforts, however ineffective, to protect themselves). It will take a special kind of griefer to undertake that kind of hassle to maintain their yucks factor.

 

Add in that there will be effective orgs who'll happily squelch such operators, and I don't anticipate that true griefing will be much of a problem.

General harrassment is another matter though. Extortion, displacement, outright conquest, those will all be among the reasons to engage in harrassing tactics. But they will be *directed* at a goal in game, and part of the PVP dynamic.

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I played Eve years ago and was enjoying it until the ship I had spent weeks of mining etc to get, was blown up by someone for fun. No insurance or save game to fall back on. Luckily a friend helped me buy a similar ship. I do not want to get into DU and have the same experience. Should I get the game? 

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I don't like the idea of a base needing a watch stander 24/7. It creates a situation where someone, or a group of players, can't do anything in the game except to keep watch for attackers. The way Eve Online got away with this was reinforcement timers. The attacking force would attack the shields of a large structure, and then it would become invulnerable for a set time. This allowed players who may be in another timezone to mount a reasonable defense. It worked for that game and it may be worth thinking about!

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2 hours ago, slaughtershy said:

I don't like the idea of a base needing a watch stander 24/7. It creates a situation where someone, or a group of players, can't do anything in the game except to keep watch for attackers. The way Eve Online got away with this was reinforcement timers. The attacking force would attack the shields of a large structure, and then it would become invulnerable for a set time. This allowed players who may be in another timezone to mount a reasonable defense. It worked for that game and it may be worth thinking about!

DU is going to do the same kind of thing with reinforcement timers and offline notification, etc. 😎

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Another approach would be to let the defender set the time for the battle (within a certain timeframe of the initial attack, of course).

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This is definitely going to be an issue sooner or later. The second largest group in the game right now is a pirate organization. They claim they are the most peaceful organization?? how does that work. I guess the most peaceful if you belong to them. I am unsure how a "there are no rules" strategy will lead to a peaceful environment. I never played Eve but I heard of the stories of carnage. DU will require significant investment of time to achieve good results and malicious damage (rather than in game scenarios) just results in real people losing masses of real life time. I hope it doesn't get out of control.

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37 minutes ago, Ilyndrathyl said:

They claim they are the most peaceful organization?? how does that work.

They're like jolly pirates, but also pro-community? Like Eve it's the NBSI orgs or specialized gankers you really have to worry about.

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On 7/17/2020 at 12:52 AM, Centcom said:

I can see this being an issue for me, as I am not a war like individual nor am I big on being part of a huge organization. Kind of the little guy if you will. I could see the little guy getting pushed to join or else or even constantly harassed by "pirates" until they either have to join or just quite. anyone that has played EVE knows this is how Goonswarn started, now they are a huge problem. something has to keep the solar system from being lawless. 

I have always been like this. I enjoy crafting and exploring and would much rather have a pvp toggle so I can enjoy the elements of the game I want to without potentially hugely impactful negtaive affects from other players.

 

Sadly that is not the game DU is - and I think we all have to take a balanced look at the game and decide whether the positives outweight the negatives. In this case, for me, they do. Finding and joining an org, or starting your own, is really the only viable option to improve your safety and reduce the likelihood of a griefer attack. Its not ideal and, when faced with similar feedback for New World Amazon Game Studio's introduced pvp as a toggle and saw their pre-orders rocket as a result. I think we all know that won't happen with NQ so we all just have to suck it up and try and be as safe as possible so we can enjoy those elements of the game we love in relative safety!

 

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