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game perspective first or third person?

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So i love this game so far. what we have seen in the dev videos is definately very cool and very promising. i look forward to being able to test it if its available to do so. but 

 

is this game first or third person and will it have option for both?

 

 

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Videos have shown first and third for flying ships. I don't believe they have stated if out of ship will be forced first, third or both. All i have ever seen when out of a ship is first person.

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First person for the ground combat and a 3rd person "shooter" interface for larger ships' weapons operators, while fighter craft are still 1st person.


Just don't make the game a "point and click" adventure on ship to ship combat. 

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hhmmm interesting. while i enjoy first person in an MMO i like the ability to play third person as well. would be shame if they dont allow it. 

Well, they could allow it for a gunnery sergeant to operate a battery of gimbaled turrets on a warship. It would be more efficient. You would essentially be fighting without controling your movement, as that's a job for the navigator/pilot.

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"Later on, in the Beta, they could allow for switching between first and third person for ground combat. As of now, leave it be. First person ground combat fits the purpose perfectly."

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"Later on, in the Beta, they could allow for switching between first and third person for ground combat. As of now, leave it be. First person ground combat fits the purpose perfectly."

Yeah, it would create roles in squads, like the pointman, who is basically the guy peaking around the corner to check for hostiles and/or the scout. Plus, first person negates the annoying 3rd person bobbing of the camera when you hit a ceiling above and it can allow for apartment buildings with narrow and short corridors. Perfect for a "Raid : Redemption" situation of a firefight.

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I need third. IRL I can see my body when I look around and am aware of it. In a first person, because I don't have that reference, I am prone to motion sickness, and it just bothers me because it isn't normal. I have a 210 degree arc of vision. The game is unable to provide for that in first person, so it causes a major disconnect for me to which my body compensates as motion sickness (true story, your brain translates motion sickness as though you have been poisoned, that's why it creates nausea to make your body purge). I need third person, otherwise, I can't play the game for more than a couple of minutes at a time.

 

It is easy enough to do. You just offer the choice per player. 

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I need third. IRL I can see my body when I look around and am aware of it. In a first person, because I don't have that reference, I am prone to motion sickness, and it just bothers me because it isn't normal. I have a 210 degree arc of vision. The game is unable to provide for that in first person, so it causes a major disconnect for me to which my body compensates as motion sickness (true story, your brain translates motion sickness as though you have been poisoned, that's why it creates nausea to make your body purge). I need third person, otherwise, I can't play the game for more than a couple of minutes at a time.

 

It is easy enough to do. You just offer the choice per player. 

The problem with your sentiment, is that in real-life, I can't turn up my FoV (Field of View) settings. Have you tried increasing the default FoV from 75 degrees to 105 degrees? It's amazing.

 

 

Also, a 3rd Person pespective would require larger ships, since your camera will hit walls and it will be wanky. Plus, the scale of the game will start feeling smaller, if you were to view a forest from above as you walked through it and all that HAR WORK the devs put in the lighting system, will be thrown out the window.

 

 

Also, targeting. The devs go for an active lock-on system, the explanation is sumemd to "Tera Online", google it, you'll understand. The problem with 3rd person view, is that it's causing mistaken feelings of approach from attacks in such an enviroment.

 

 

And FYI, the Game Engine the devs utilise, is heavily rigged for Occulus Rift, Track IR and VR in general. You would be asking the devs to shoot themselves in the foot with a 3rd person view, at least, off a vehicle. You would also be asking for a heavily dumbing down of the game mechanics and the whole atmosphere ships have of "submarines in space", with people looking at radars and other nstruments to determine targets. Unless you are a battleship in real life and you demand to be able to see in 3rd person in a video game.

 

 

Also, buildings, like apartment buildings, would have to forfeit a narrow and compact feeling, for a more wide approach, so the people running in there don't feel like wanting to trigger themselves for dareing to go 3rd person in a building, not to mention the annoyance of switcihng between two modes all the time, just because you dared to walk into a building with a lower ceiling.

 

 

Let the game be immersive in first person. Third Person is an outdated mechanic for an outdated era, where seeing your 3D model avatar was "cool" and "rad". Now it's all about immersion. And last I've checked, I can't feel immersed in third person, cause I can't see in third person in real life, so, it's quite unimmersive.

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"The game is going to be a FPS, and depending on our budget and time, we will also provide some TPS view, especially in combat. The FPS view is important for immersion and also because we have Oculus Rift and similar devices in mind, so it would not make sense to offer only TPS view in any case. So, looking through your virtual eyes, the arkship stands proud and high in the sky behind you and you are facing a large empty crater that was created by the ship impact, followed a bit further by a dark and deep forest on your left, and a large mountain chain on your right, with white snowy tops."

 

- JC Baillie 

 

https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/08/17/about-the-alpha-gameplay/

 

 

 

I really hope the game is built around FPS, almost more than any feature I want out of the game. 

 

Yes it will make flying large ships more difficult, but that's the point. You would have to work together with your crew to safely navigate a ship somewhere, and combat would be much more immersive if you weren't able to just go into a third person view and see everything around you all at once. 

 

Combat would be more like Submarines in Space, where you would have to depend on your sensors and sense of direction to do things. 

 

 

Having a mix of FPS and TPS views seems like it would also give an unfair advantage to players who use TPS exclusively, although seeing as how this is a target-lock combat based game, perhaps the advantage would be negligible. 

 

I just know if I'm using an Oculus Rift, I don't want to get ganked by some guy on another side of a wall who sees me coming because he's using a third person camera to see over it. 

 

That exact issue is part of the reason why there are FPS locked servers in DayZ, because of the unfair advantage it would give to players who aren't in FPS mode.

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The problem with your sentiment, is that in real-life, I can't turn up my FoV (Field of View) settings. Have you tried increasing the default FoV from 75 degrees to 105 degrees? It's amazing.

 

Haven't tried this. Thanks for the tip. But 75 and 105 are both less than half my personal FOV (actually 105 is half my FOV).  I have excellent peripheral vision. Thus, a game limited to 1st POV at 75 or 105 degrees is akin to me closing one eye IRL. That is completely unimmersive for me and is part of the reason I get motion sickness as my forward 75 / 105 does not agree with my peripheral vision. 

Also, a 3rd Person pespective would require larger ships, since your camera will hit walls and it will be wanky. Plus, the scale of the game will start feeling smaller, if you were to view a forest from above as you walked through it and all that HAR WORK the devs put in the lighting system, will be thrown out the window.

 

Why would the devs' work on lighting be thrown out the window? I've played 3rd POV games with lighting systems that worked fine. And depending on how far back I pulled, my own shadow was taken into consideration and was dynamic depending on light-source location and terrain. 

Also, targeting. The devs go for an active lock-on system, the explanation is sumemd to "Tera Online", google it, you'll understand. The problem with 3rd person view, is that it's causing mistaken feelings of approach from attacks in such an enviroment.

 

Active Lock-on targeting could be an issue in 3rd POV, but I have seen this work also. It depends on the skill of the player in such a case. And the last sentence is an opinion based on your experience. I do not share that experience. 

And FYI, the Game Engine the devs utilise, is heavily rigged for Occulus Rift, Track IR and VR in general. You would be asking the devs to shoot themselves in the foot with a 3rd person view, at least, off a vehicle. You would also be asking for a heavily dumbing down of the game mechanics and the whole atmosphere ships have of "submarines in space", with people looking at radars and other nstruments to determine targets. Unless you are a battleship in real life and you demand to be able to see in 3rd person in a video game.

 

I don't see how a 3rd POV would require a "dumbing down" of the game mechanics. It requires giving the option of a over-the-shoulder or behind the back camera angle, possibly a 360 view of an avatar. And as far as a submarine in space or a battleship is concerned, there was a time before radar existed and warfare and active and accurate targeting was standard operating procedure. They used their eyes to target. Manual laser targeting is still used today, though not by many. Third POV does not eliminate anyone looking at instruments. It merely allows them to look over the avatar's shoulder to see the instrument to determine targets.

 

Also, buildings, like apartment buildings, would have to forfeit a narrow and compact feeling, for a more wide approach, so the people running in there don't feel like wanting to trigger themselves for dareing to go 3rd person in a building, not to mention the annoyance of switcihng between two modes all the time, just because you dared to walk into a building with a lower ceiling.

 

Again, why? Moving the camera back three or six feet or one foot behind the shoulder does not change the the feeling for me, and I have played many 1st POV games and games that allow the user a choice. "Annoyance" is a word of opinion and most of what you have written is your experience, not mine, and one I do not share. 

 

Let the game be immersive in first person. Third Person is an outdated mechanic for an outdated era, where seeing your 3D model avatar was "cool" and "rad". Now it's all about immersion. And last I've checked, I can't feel immersed in third person, cause I can't see in third person in real life, so, it's quite unimmersive.

 

Outdated? Outmoded? Asheron's Call. EVE Online. Champions Online. Dungeons & Dragons Online. Final Fantasy xx. AION. World of Warcraft. Anarchy Online. Everquest. Wildstar. These are all either currently active long-standing MMORPGs with 3rd POV options (a couple from 1999) or ones that have come out in the last three or four years. Plus, there is Tom Clancy's The Division, Gears of War 4, Beyond Flesh and Blood, Uncharted 4, and Umbrella Corps all due out this year and all have 3rd POV capabilities. I could name the dozen or twenty others that have come out in the past two years.  Outdated? Outmoded? Once again, another opinion.

 

Most of what you have presented is opinion based on your experience. YOU might find it not to be immersive. But that is your experience, not mine. I do not find it to be the case.

 

The question is, why do you want to force people who like 3rd POV to use 1st POV? You'll notice that I made statement for me and only me in my original post. Your statements do not seem to be directed that way, but rather as universal statements of facts, which they are not because I disagree with them which eliminates both the universal and the fact part of it. It is all opinion. What I am suggesting is offering the option of using third or first. It allows people to have the choice, not forcing them to use a POV they do not favor. And since the devs have stated they are looking at the possibility, then they too realize that terms like outdated and outmoded do not apply and see that there exists a personal preference with each end-user.

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I really hope the game is built around FPS, almost more than any feature I want out of the game. 

 

I do too. It would be nice to have the option of a 3rd POV.

 

Yes it will make flying large ships more difficult, but that's the point. You would have to work together with your crew to safely navigate a ship somewhere, and combat would be much more immersive if you weren't able to just go into a third person view and see everything around you all at once. 

 

Combat would be more like Submarines in Space, where you would have to depend on your sensors and sense of direction to do things. 

 

 

Having a mix of FPS and TPS views seems like it would also give an unfair advantage to players who use TPS exclusively, although seeing as how this is a target-lock combat based game, perhaps the advantage would be negligible. 

 

This is my thought. With having multiple player vessels, each member crewing a different aspect, they could each choose the view that was best for them. For instance, looking at a combat with a 3rd POV limits vision of what is past the 180 degree (or usually less) vision mark; whereas using a radar system gives the viewer a 360 degree view. FIrst-person POV may actually be more advantageous. Or, one can use a 3rd POV to look at the radar from over the shoulder of the avatar and have a thrid POV of a first POV.

 

I just know if I'm using an Oculus Rift, I don't want to get ganked by some guy on another side of a wall who sees me coming because he's using a third person camera to see over it. 

 

That would depend on how they limit the 3rd POV. If it is limited to over the shoulder, this is minimized. If it is limited to eye level, it is further minimized. Third-person POV does not jave to be at 1000 metres or 100 yards, it can be limited to two feet or ten centimetres. It doesn't equate to omniscience or broader range of vision. It means being able to see an avatar. For me, that allows me to ground my experience so my body minimizes the disconnect that leads to motion sickness.

 

That exact issue is part of the reason why there are FPS locked servers in DayZ, because of the unfair advantage it would give to players who aren't in FPS mode.

 

And there are TPS servers as well allowing each player to make the decision of which to play for themselves instead of forcing them to use one or the other.

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And there are TPS servers as well allowing each player to make the decision of which to play for themselves instead of forcing them to use one or the other.

 

But this is Dual Universe, where there will be one single shard for every player in the game.

 

There is no option to have FPS and TPS locked servers, so regardless TPS players would end up having an advantage over people who are in FPS mode. 

 

It doesn't matter how limited the TPS view is, ultimately they would have access to a larger field of view than people who are in FPS mode, and that will create an imbalance. 

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Most of what you have presented is opinion based on your experience. YOU might find it not to be immersive. But that is your experience, not mine. I do not find it to be the case.

 

The question is, why do you want to force people who like 3rd POV to use 1st POV? You'll notice that I made statement for me and only me in my original post. Your statements do not seem to be directed that way, but rather as universal statements of facts, which they are not because I disagree with them which eliminates both the universal and the fact part of it. It is all opinion. What I am suggesting is offering the option of using third or first. It allows people to have the choice, not forcing them to use a POV they do not favor. And since the devs have stated they are looking at the possibility, then they too realize that terms like outdated and outmoded do not apply and see that there exists a personal preference with each end-user.

Offering 3rd Person with all its peaking around corners, would negate 1st person. You can play ESO in 1st Person. Guess what, nobody does, asie from RPers.

 

!05 Degrees FOV is because you see from one point in-game, if you were to use a VR headset, in an engine like DUAL's, you would be able to get 210 degrees from two different points, aka your eyes on the headset.

 

 

EVE Online is outdated. It's 15 years old, running a single-thread code. Asheron's Call, 14 years old, going with the Asheron's Call 2, with Aheron's Call 1 being 17 years old. Yeah, the 3rd Person system is a relic of the past. something for ages where 3D and MMOs were a novelty.

 

Gears of War 4, Beyond Flesh and Blood, Uncharted 4   ? Guess what all of these got in common. They are not MMOs and the Division is a third person shooter because Destiny is a First Person Shooter. They would go full copycat if they did so. They needed SOMETHING different to not be sued by Bangie.

 

Also, you brought up Unbream Corps? Really? You bring as good of an example a cashgrab like that? That game should be burned at the stake. :P

 

Also, see Tera's Active Lock-on and how difficult it is to calculate shots with its Third Person view. Any self-respecting archer in Tera played on First Person, cause the constant back and forth of the camera made the combat feel clanky in Third Person. And by First Person, I of course mean the same first person WoW provides. A simple FoV allignment to the head of the character.

 

And your motion sickness excuse is really shallow. I have eyesight issues and I don't call for the devs to make the game in lower quality of graphics just so everyone plays on the same field as me, nor do I ask for a lesser collection of colors because I'm colorblind. Cause that's what your 3rd Person View will do. It would simply ruin the game on many levels, beyond PvP.

 

 

Sure, the arguement can be made for a 3rd person view while walking or running without a gun pulled up. But then again, you would go to First Person when you pulled the gun up.

 

 

You can't have both of those things in a game, cause 3rd Person offers a peak-around-the-corner that First Person can't. It's that simple.

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@ CaptainTwerkmotor

 

Each person is different and each have their own preferences. This is mine. My opinion is simple: it would be nice to have both available. I am championing choice. You can have both in the game. It has been done before. It will be in the future. Just because it isn't your preference does not mean it is not a valid option. 

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@ CaptainTwerkmotor

 

Each person is different and each have their own preferences. This is mine. My opinion is simple: it would be nice to have both available. I am championing choice. You can have both in the game. It has been done before. It will be in the future. Just because it isn't your preference does not mean it is not a valid option. 

You can have both but that does not mean its good for the game. Most games that do have both you will see people using fps to aim and shoot people and third person to look around corners and see behind them slightly as well as glitch the camera out to see things they should not be able to.

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I do hope they mostly stick to first person when not in a vehicle. while piloting a ship I can see the need for third person. It really depends on how they implement flying and if they can give a good feel to flying while in first person, which is very possible.

 

I agree with most that both(in or out of spaceships) is basically saying third person. Third person has way to many combat advantages over first person to not use third person unless you just want the first person feel. Whatever they choose first person for all or first for out of vehicle third for in vehicle i think it should be locked to those views.

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I do hope they mostly stick to first person when not in a vehicle. while piloting a ship I can see the need for third person. It really depends on how they implement flying and if they can give a good feel to flying while in first person, which is very possible.

 

I agree with most that both(in or out of spaceships) is basically saying third person. Third person has way to many combat advantages over first person to not use third person unless you just want the first person feel. Whatever they choose first person for all or first for out of vehicle third for in vehicle i think it should be locked to those views.

While you have ap oint on ships, you won't be piloting a ship and firing a gun to need a 3rd person view, at least not a battleship or battlecruiser sized ship. In those ships, your gunnery sergeants will deal with the weapons,you are only there to drive the ship in an intercept course and make the jukes to avoid being hit by the enemy cones of fire.

 

 

A starifighter jet, would need to do the first person thing as well for firing the weapons, while having a 3rd person view for a look-around. 

 

 

Having the ability to look-around as a battleship driver though, it owuld negate the need for a radars officer or specialist on the bridge of the ship and it would make the game one specialisation less deep as of gameplay.

 

 

Plus, First Person is much more immersive. :P

 

 

Having an operations' officer calling out damge done on the enemy ship in a recent engagement is like, the epitomy of a sci-fi immersion in a  game :P

 

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