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Ore vein scan results as sellable items


Takao
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In order to make scanned deposit locations (more) sellable I would suggest the abillity to generate ore scanning results, which are normal items that can be traded.

The scan results can not be manipulated, so their information is correct.

They store the following information about the ore vein:

  • Type(s) of ore
  • Amount of that ore
  • Depth
  • Planet
  • Position (some sort of projection at the location in the ground where the deposit is)
  • The hex field on the map
  • Date at which the scan was done

 

The amount of ore, depths and the exact position would be depending on the players scanning skill and precision at which the deposit was triangulated.

So you don't have the exact amount of ore and not the exact location, so you have some error there, of course.

When you place the scan result on the market players can see everything, except the exact position and the hex field on the planet.

That way you can effectivly sell scanning results without the need for a huge amount of trust involved.

One problem would still be, that the ore deposit might be already mined, so players should be able to rescan deposits and then update their scan results on the market.

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That would also encourage competition among mining companies, since the positions of rare ores will be rather valuable. And about the problem: Well, if it's mined already, bad luck. When you buy info-tablets from last year, don't expect them to still be valid.

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This is rather very good idea. Not to mention that it can also bring about the birth of a new profession; Ore Scanner Specialists or Prospectors. Individuals who are just dedicated to searching for ore veins to obtain it's metadata for trading or selling purposes.

 

Thanks for sharing, Takao.

 

~ Meldrik

Edited by Mod-Meldrik
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Nice idea. It would certainly make prospector a more viable career.

 

I can see one argument against it though. NQ generally wants the game to encourage teamwork, so that players (well, at least the majority of them) have to find their place in a society with people depending on each other. These trade-able data items may make it too easy for a prospector to operate as a "lone wolf" and just sell to whomever will pay the best price. Without them a prospector will have to either be part of a society or establish a certain degree of trust from his/her customers, which would require some more engaging interaction than through a market-unit.

 

Still a good idea though. I'm not completely against it.

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12 hours ago, Larry_Tincreek said:

NQ generally wants the game to encourage teamwork, so that players (well, at least the majority of them) have to find their place in a society with people depending on each other. These trade-able data items may make it too easy for a prospector to operate as a "lone wolf" and just sell to whomever will pay the best price.

I don't see a problem here that even remotely equals the benefits of the tradable scan results. Without them you simply can't sell them at all.

NQ doesn't have a problem with lone wolves. They have sad multiple times, that you can play the game solo, in small groups or in large groups (corps), although you can't achieve anything without a large group.

Exploration and scanning would be a very good perfection for players who don't want to play in groups.

They will be able to make money with it (whats the problem here?), however corporations will most likely have their own scouts who scan for new deposits, so they ether don't need those lone wolves or can make more money with scanning then they do. 

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I might have come off as more negative than I really meant in my first post.

 

It should be perfectly possible to be a freelance prospector, I just don't think it should be as convenient as what your suggestion would make it. Before reading your idea I had imagined something with bookmarks and a manually written description, but a standardized data item like you're suggesting would probably work better.

 

I actually like the concept, but I think it should be possible to tamper with the result using a "data manipulation" skill, or whatever kind of skill could be relevant. The buyers on the other hand should be able to detect the tampering by using a "data analysation" or "deciphering" or whatever skill. With a high enough skill (and especially if the scammer used a rather low level of "data manipulation") there should even be a decent chance at detecting it without buying the item, but the chance would increase after the purchase.

 

Now, I assume the majority of freelance prospectors would refrain from tampering with their scanning results. They have a reputation to build and uphold. Blatant scammers on the other hand would soon enough end up blacklisted by more and more mining companies and possibly get a bounty hunter chasing them.

 

I guess there wouldn't be a problem as such with untamperable data items as you suggest, but I think the trade would be more interesting and and more "part of a living breathing world" if unaffiliated prospectors had to build up a reputation because they 'might be scammers'.

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15 minutes ago, Larry_Tincreek said:

Now, I assume the majority of freelance prospectors would refrain from tampering with their scanning results. They have a reputation to build and uphold. Blatant scammers on the other hand would soon enough end up blacklisted by more and more mining companies and possibly get a bounty hunter chasing them.

And that's why there is no need for a data manipulation skill imo, because it will not add anything useful to the game.

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As there are no valuable resources in or around safezones, I don't think such a mechanic (pre-defined by NQ) would be used at all. But nonetheless: players can do it themselves.

 

If there's a way to create a bookmark then this should be entirely player run. People sell such BMs in eve all the time (wormhole entrances for example - I did that too) and it works there too. Because players created everything needed to sell it (website with login, verifying your account if smth doesn't go well, reputation - likes, search function, sort functions,....). Can you be scammed? Yeah - if you just buy from shady "merchants" and don't do your homework. And that's the fun part of DU too.

 

So no, I don't think this is NQs job - it's ours

 

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2 hours ago, Takao said:

And that's why there is no need for a data manipulation skill imo, because it will not add anything useful to the game.

Some scammers might plan to not have a very long career in that specific field. I think that's fairly common for scammers.

 

Also, not all orgs will have the caution to check the naughty list every time they trade with someone new. Some of them will have to learn the hard way, and that's an opening for the scammer.

 

- And a bounty hunter can be averted.

 

Overall I think a function to tamper with scan results would be used now and then. Not very often, but enough to give it some merit.

 

2 hours ago, Lethys said:

As there are no valuable resources in or around safezones, I don't think such a mechanic (pre-defined by NQ) would be used at all. But nonetheless: players can do it themselves.

I'm not really sure why you bring up safe zones. I imagine trading scan data would mostly be used for finds on more or less freshly discovered planets.

 

2 hours ago, Lethys said:

If there's a way to create a bookmark then this should be entirely player run. People sell such BMs in eve all the time (wormhole entrances for example - I did that too) and it works there too. Because players created everything needed to sell it (website with login, verifying your account if smth doesn't go well, reputation - likes, search function, sort functions,....). Can you be scammed? Yeah - if you just buy from shady "merchants" and don't do your homework. And that's the fun part of DU too.

Maybe I'm just a bit old fashioned, but I prefer that game content generally stay inside the game and don't require external web pages. I see your point though. Time not spent by NQ on something the players could make, is time spent on something with more actual gameplay in it. So I guess a system like this is one of those things that would be 'neat to have' but ultimately not necessary and thus pretty far down the priority list. Like several years after launch if ever :/

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2 hours ago, Takao said:

And that's why there is no need for a data manipulation skill imo, because it will not add anything useful to the game.

Agreed.

 

The "scan result" data item does not need to be altered, any required scamming can be done when listing the item for sale on the market by simply lying about what the data item contains. Any potential buyer will only have access to the actual data once the item is in their inventory, before that it's simply a generic "scan result item". The seller will have the ability to misrepresent what they're selling, if they so desire.

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16 minutes ago, NanoDot said:

any required scamming can be done when listing the item for sale on the market by simply lying about what the data item contains. Any potential buyer will only have access to the actual data once the item is in their inventory, before that it's simply a generic "scan result item". The seller will have the abilit

That’s exactly why there are scan results, so that this is not possible. See my first post for what is visible of the scan before you buy it.

The whole purpose of the scan results is, that you can relative risk-free buy coordinations for ore deposits.

3 hours ago, Lethys said:

If there's a way to create a bookmark then this should be entirely player run. People sell such BMs in eve all the time (wormhole entrances for example - I did that too) and it works there too

There is no real benefit of that compared to selling the scan results as an in-game item. The only thing that it brings you is that you can scam people way more easily, which is not a good game mechanic, because it will only benefit a few and highly frustrate many.

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1 minute ago, Takao said:

That’s exactly why there are scan results, so that this is not possible. See my first post for what is visible of the scan before you buy it.

The whole purpose of the scan results is, that you can relative risk-free buy coordinations for ore deposits.

There is no real benefit of that compared to selling the scan results as an in-game item. The only thing that it brings you is that you can scam people way more easily, which is not a good game mechanic, because it will only benefit a few and highly frustrate many.

That's the point though, those BMs ARE ingame items. Only they don't show anything but coords

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Umu if we got this in game it is great. Scanner job will be very useful and other group who not have the scanner can get access to the location they can mine.

But i think the scan result data should can be manipulation via hacker ability or something else to be fair. Scam yes will be more, but also people have to learn to how not be scamed.But who know what NQ is thinking,

Balance between everything is so hard to make player got enough freedom.

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18 hours ago, Takao said:

That what is the benefit of sellable bookmarks without any secured information about what’s „inside“ it, compared to bookmarks which contains such information?

The "benefit" of not having secured information is that it creates opportunities for emergent game play.

 

If scamming is not possible, players have no need to worry about the reputation and reliability of the person selling the items. They may as well be buying from an NPC.

Reputation makes the player more real and "lifelike", and has significant consequences in your interaction with other players.

 

If scamming bookmarks is a possibility, those that gain a reputation for honest dealing will be able to sell their BM's more easily, and quite likely at a higher price. If all bookmarks are equally safe, there's no premium attached to buying from a "trusted" seller, because trust becomes irrelevant.

 

Without the possibility of crime in the game world, there's no possibility of playing a "good guy" or a "bad guy".

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The information in the scanning results are only "secure" during the moment where it was created.

If the vein is mined directly afterwards, the scan results will not change automatically.

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