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Griefers and how they will be handled.

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Now... IT is a bit of a troublesome topic in these kinds of games. (Well in ALL games, but games like for example Dual Universe are the most sensitive to these kinds of people.)

People who only trolls and generally just ruin everything for others just because they find it fun. People that ruin others buildings or the like just to see them get angry.

I am not fully aware how this will be stopped, but It can easily become a big issue if not adressed in one way or the other. 

What do you guys think?  How will we stop stuff like this from happening? (The last thing I want is some player named "Mommafaker81" bunny jumping in a circle around, randomly placing out cheap ores to be in the way of others :/)

 

 

Edited by Nyzaltar:

Foul language removed.

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I refer to this answer from Nyzaltar: https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/1352-frog-frogswarm-french/page-2#entry45292

 

 

Now... IT is a bit of a troublesome topic in these kinds of games. (Well in ALL games, but games like for example Dual Universe are the most sensitive to these kinds of people.)
People who only trolls and generally just ruin everything for others just because they find it fun. People that ruin others buildings or the like just to see them get angry.
I am not fully aware how this will be stopped, but It can easily become a big issue if not adressed in one way or the other.
What do you guys think?  How will we stop stuff like this from happening? (The last thing I want is some player named "Mommafaker81" bunny jumping in a circle around, randomly placing out cheap ores to be in the way of others :/)

 

depends what people define as a troll/griefer (not that it matters because the only valid and useful definition comes from NQ!)

 

People will be killed

People's ships will be destroyed

People's bases will be pillaged

People will get angry about that for sure...

 

Those are facts because of the sandbox nature. Is a guy who destroys an undefended base despicable? IMO not, he just uses the game mechanics to get an edge over others - that guy from the base could've done the same. If people don't want to deal with PVP and with player interaction then they can and should stay in the safespaces:

 

There will be shields to defend bigger markets/cities/stations

There will be the safezone around the arkship

 

PVP/Piracy/killing/destruction is vital for a game like this. It's not only a driver for economy but also ensures that RISK VS REWARD (as said by JC) is a thing. You can't live in your perfectly safe environment AND get ingame money as quickly as an explorer, who ventures deep into unknown territory to search for rare ore vines.

 

NQ already said that they deal with griefing on a case to case basis - which is good, because automated systems can be abused with ease

 

ninjaedit:

The ONLY thing that matters is what the EULA will be like and what actions a player is allowed to do and what kind of actions are bannable/against the EULA. Every other opinion doesn't count

 

Edited by Nyzaltar:

Foul language removed.

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I think you are not ready for a Sandbox game.

I plan on placing explosives and watch things burn that do not belong to someone on my organisation / alliance / coalition. 

Why? Because if you go build outside a safezone, you know the risks. Find a group, pool resources to build a TCU to have immunity on people trying to edit your constructs. Build walls (or domes), do SOMETHING to prevent people blowing up your stuff.

This is a sandbox. Build a sand castle - well, that it is not made of actual, in-game, sand, build it sturdy. 


Step 1 : Strength in Numbers is essential if you go into the lawless lands beyond the safezones.

Step 2 : Live by the meme, die by the meme. Play smart, die smart, respawn smarter.

You are in the Terran Union, find safety in its borders - or at least, w/e safety it can offer.

NQ is not responsible for you building a house in the borders of two warring factions.

NQ is not responsible for me hunting you down, killing you and stealing your ship in-game.

NQ is not responsible for me, carrying out Operation : Dickbutt, building a bunch of Washington Monuments around a territory claim, jsut to troll the inhabitants who went for "artsy" stuff and I ruiend their horizon view.

NQ is not responsible for you going through a shortcut that's full of pirate ganks or an actual warzone.

NQ said on the KS AMA, that they won't ban people for griefing, UNLESS, they go overboard and start harrassing, by calling you naes, stalking you on the internet (if you are silly enough to let anyone know who you are IRL) and the such. Harrassment != Griefing.

Griefing is me, bringing a fleet and blowing up your shack in the forest. Why? Because we CAN. Are we griefers? Absolutely - unless you built in our territory without our permission. Are we to be banned? No.

It's a sandbox. Protect yourself the best way you see fit.

If the other person goes beyond the line of the EULA, report them and ignore them. It's that simple.

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I am not saying that I don't want others to not be able to do "bad things".

Hell, It would be boring if you could only build and not have any form of "competition".

What I say is that there are "Limit" to that.  For example, we don't want a "goon swarm" situation, where a massive group of players constantly, nonstop, harass other players making the game unplayable unless you are in the group they are in. You get my point?

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I am not saying that I don't want others to not be able to do "bad things".

 

Hell, It would be boring if you could only build and not have any form of "competition".

 

What I say is that there are "Limit" to that.  For example, we don't want a "goon swarm" situation, where a massive group of players constantly, nonstop, harass other players making the game unplayable unless you are in the group they are in. You get my point?

 

That's a completely DIFFERENT topic than the one you started with your first thread.....

 

Huge coalitions are no problem because

 

a) just leave the planet and go somewhere else

B) get your allies together, recruite more allies and kill them

c) annoy them with game mechanics to a point where they don't attack anymore

 

Eve is another topic because of it's mechanics - but those are non existent in DU

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I am not saying that I don't want others to not be able to do "bad things".

 

Hell, It would be boring if you could only build and not have any form of "competition".

 

What I say is that there are "Limit" to that.  For example, we don't want a "goon swarm" situation, where a massive group of players constantly, nonstop, harass other players making the game unplayable unless you are in the group they are in. You get my point?

You are not an EVE player, are you?

 

Goons were, for the most part, the "bad guys" of EVE. Guess what, they are not what they used to be any more.

 

Why? Because the whole server ganked up on them.

 

 

 

In my situation in Null-Sec in EVE, I only died twice to gankers, because I went :

 

1) Balls to the Wall, "Sure, they got 110km Warp Disrupt to the Stargate, but I surely can make it. Hold my beer".

 

2) Didn't bother to check the intelligence channel for a roaming band that came my way as I was mining. Oh yeah, that's an actual job in a sandbox game, being Scout to monitor places where enemies may come from.

 

These, are organic limitations. My alliance has a safe place for its people, because people actually take on jobs on securing borders, roaming and skirmishing to keep the enemy factions from going through our borders. Sure, we got the occasional person that slips through the cracks, but that is where politics and Rules of Engagement come into play. Neutrals (those who are not Red-Hostile) are shot on sight, as it's our NBSI policy that keeps us safe from outsiders - NBSI meaning Not Blue Shoot it / If they are not with us, they are against us .

 

 

NQ has NO reason to actually limit gameplay. They got the TCU, that guarantees people can't build in your Territory. They got the Voxel grids around constructs, that make sure people can't build on top of your construct in a certain radius. They can't be a babysitter for every single thing in the game,

 

 

Piracy will happen - constantly. Want to avoid it? Don't take high risk jobs, as in buy cheap here, sell high there - there being 250 Light Years away. Salle locally, that's what I do in EVE and I do make a profit in my alliance's main trading hub ( which doesn't cover the larger coalition my alliance is part of ).

 

You can't ask NQ to "limit" the risk of certain actons you will take in-game. It's called High Risks High Rewards for a reason. What? You talked too much and word leaked that you will be carrying 1000000000000 SpaceBucks cargo on Saturday, at 6:00 AM Server Time? What? One of your guys sold the information to pirates and they intercepted yo uand you lost all the precious cargo and your ship?

 

Sucks being you. You knew the risk, you should have kept quiet.

 

Oh, yeah, these things happen - a lot. The best ship in a sandbox like DU, is friendship. Make friends, protect each other's back.

 

 

NQ is not responsible for any choice you made that ended up with you being trolled. If I want to go on a rampage of trolling and griefing on a day, I should be able to do so. Bounties are placed on my head? Cool, I get more content my way by spiffy bounty hunters. Will 20 people gank up on me to get the bounty and I lose all my precious gear and loot? As I said, live by the meme, die by the meme. Play smart, Die ssmart , Respawn smarter.

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That's a completely DIFFERENT topic than the one you started with your first thread.....

 

Huge coalitions are no problem because

 

a) just leave the planet and go somewhere else

B) get your allies together, recruite more allies and kill them

c) annoy them with game mechanics to a point where they don't attack anymore

 

Eve is another topic because of it's mechanics - but those are non existent in DU

Yeah.

 

Half of the problems people see in EVE don't even apply in DU. For starters, I can't troll in DU by docking in a station and being smug and trash-talking in the local chat.

 

The guards will deal with me shortly if I do that.

 

Safezones are another issue. If NQ admins were to be "overseers" of an Arkship in-game, they could deal with trolls on those regions. And would be quite immersive as well, actually talking to an admin that's IN the game.

 

 

But protection bubbles / space stations, should simply be player regulated. Something that in EVE, is not really an option. You can't kick a person from station you own :P

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The others have already described in detail what possibilities exist. But the topic can not be considered as done.

 

I understand your worries. My Fear: I have an outpost. This outpost becomes a victim of a raid. The raider "beautify" my outpost with swastikas.

 

NQ said somewhere that they can track who has set the blocks.

But how do I deal with it as a player? I do not want to be associated with anything that would harm my reputation as a player and a human being. And here everyone could be affected.

 

Even if it is presumed to be in the EULA, the damage would have been done.

 

- Do I have to prove NQ that I have nothing to do with the perpetrator?

- Do I have to remove it by myself, or is it removed by a game master?

- Do I have opportunities to report "works of art"?

 

I am aware that it is an isolated case. I still trust that we do not do something like that. But what if?

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I am quite curiously wondering how the shield system will work.

I mean... later, what will stop people from camping outside of the shielded area, creating a massive no'mans land around the shield xD

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The others have already described in detail what possibilities exist. But the topic can not be considered as done.
 
I understand your worries. My Fear: I have an outpost. This outpost becomes a victim of a raid. The raider "beautify" my outpost with swastikas.
 
NQ said somewhere that they can track who has set the blocks.
But how do I deal with it as a player? I do not want to be associated with anything that would harm my reputation as a player and a human being. And here everyone could be affected.
 
Even if it is presumed to be in the EULA, the damage would have been done.
 
- Do I have to prove NQ that I have nothing to do with the perpetrator?
- Do I have to remove it by myself, or is it removed by a game master?
- Do I have opportunities to report "works of art"?
 
I am aware that it is an isolated case. I still trust that we do not do something like that. But what if?

 

THAT kind of stuff.

 

That is what I also kinda worry about. (and honestly, I dunno about you, but seeing giant dicks flying around in space kiinda ruins the immersion. Yeah, I know. Freedom of creativity and stuff. I am just saying)

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I am quite curiously wondering how the shield system will work.

 

I mean... later, what will stop people from camping outside of the shielded area, creating a massive no'mans land around the shield xD

 

no one.

Or your fleet, maybe?

 

THAT kind of stuff.

 

That is what I also kinda worry about. (and honestly, I dunno about you, but seeing giant dicks flying around in space kiinda ruins the immersion. Yeah, I know. Freedom of creativity and stuff. I am just saying)

 

This is yet ANOTHER topic.....again :D

 

Well I really don't see a problem in just reporting that kind of stuff to NQ and they will do something....or not. They'll tell you what to do

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no one.

Or your fleet, maybe?

 

 

This is yet ANOTHER topic.....again :D

 

Well I really don't see a problem in just reporting that kind of stuff to NQ and they will do something....or not. They'll tell you what to do

 

 

Griefing has several faces. I think you can and should discuss everything here.
 
But I do not agree that I should remove swastikas from other players. Are you crazy? After all, I am also a customer and have not drawn it. Why should I be responsible if another customer was the culprit?
 
Screen-Shot-2017-02-01-at-9.23.33-AM.png

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The others have already described in detail what possibilities exist. But the topic can not be considered as done.
 
I understand your worries. My Fear: I have an outpost. This outpost becomes a victim of a raid. The raider "beautify" my outpost with swastikas.
 
NQ said somewhere that they can track who has set the blocks.
But how do I deal with it as a player? I do not want to be associated with anything that would harm my reputation as a player and a human being. And here everyone could be affected.
 
Even if it is presumed to be in the EULA, the damage would have been done.
 
- Do I have to prove NQ that I have nothing to do with the perpetrator?
- Do I have to remove it by myself, or is it removed by a game master?
- Do I have opportunities to report "works of art"?
 
I am aware that it is an isolated case. I still trust that we do not do something like that. But what if?

 

Why... would you have... a solo outpost... are you a one man army? :P

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Griefing has several faces. I think you can and should discuss everything here.
 
But I do not agree that I should remove swastikas from other players. Are you crazy? After all, I am also a customer and have not drawn it. Why should I be responsible if another customer was the culprit?
 
Screen-Shot-2017-02-01-at-9.23.33-AM.png

 

You use that meme the wrong way.

 

Here's a proper way to use it.

 

 

"You can't be buried alive, if you live underground"

 

 

Screen-Shot-2017-02-01-at-9.23.33-AM.png

 

 

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Why... would you have... a solo outpost... are you a one man army? :P

 

This can also be a handful of people in an organization. Basically, it does not matter. As I've already written, it can hit anyone.

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Griefing has several faces. I think you can and should discuss everything here.
 
But I do not agree that I should remove swastikas from other players. Are you crazy? After all, I am also a customer and have not drawn it. Why should I be responsible if another customer was the culprit?
 

 

Never said you should remove it yourself - if such a thing ever happens -> report it -> NQ tells you what to do

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This can also be a handful of people in an organization. Basically, it does not matter. As I've already written, it can hit anyone.

No, the problem with that kind of thinking is the general problem with the community that doesn't understand sandbox.

 

This kind of thinking is the "I want to build a golden palace in the middle of a warzone and be protected" kind of tihnking.

 

Outposts are a military asset. If you are on a MILITARY ASSET on a border, you are ASKING for trouble. There's a reason there are borders and players will have to guuard them - mainly, an excuse for PvP. So you, who doesn't like trolls and griefers, can just build in piece deep in your faction's border, where nobody will harm you, as your faction could kick them out of the TCU / Protection Bubble as a retaliation.

 

This kind of thinking is on the same level as " I don't want my WARship to be blown to bits by trolls ". First, it's a warship, it's meant for WAR, and all the missiles will go its way. Dock it in a space station with a powerful shield - that's an outpost or a staging waypoint station.

 

Likewise, you guys are argueing " I want to be living in the midst of a place that RAIDERS will attack, but I don't want to be oblieterated and trolled by them.

 

That's not how the sandbox works. There's a reason safezones exist.

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No, this is certainly not a problem of the community. And I never said I wanted to build the building obviously. I've played Star Wars Galaxies, so do not tell me I do not know what a sandbox game is.

 

But to explain again why it can hit anyone:

If an organization places an outpost, regardless of whether it is guarded or not, whether all defenders have died and can no longer be re-established in the outpost (because resurrection node was destroyed), the raiders can place a swastika. And that is the jumping point.

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I don't usually agree with Twerk, but in this case I do.

 

Your example of a large "Goon Squad organization" is an example of ANY organization in NQ.  Some of these orgs will eventually evolve into "countries" or planetary rulers.

 

If you decide you don't want to be part of that "country", you may want to find another "country" for protection.  There will certainly be wars between these two countries for control of territory.  Do you really want to be caught in the middle, non aligned?  How well does that work in real life?

 

Instead of being targeted by half the player base, you're targeted by all of them.

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No, this is certainly not a problem of the community. And I never said I wanted to build the building obviously. I've played Star Wars Galaxies, so do not tell me I do not know what a sandbox game is.
 
But to explain again why it can hit anyone:
If an organization places an outpost, regardless of whether it is guarded or not, whether all defenders have died and can no longer be re-established in the outpost (because resurrection node was destroyed), the raiders can place a swastika. And that is the jumping point.

 

That is then NQ's problem. If they say "creative freedom", that may include Swastikas being allowed. And in other cultures, the same symbol means something different. So, you see, there's no win-win. NQ will have to limit "literal" insults, either in chat or voxel editing in-game.

 

However, if someone went and wrote " Kill all Blue People", then yeah, that's actually racism and NQ should ban whoever wrote it - as they can find out who edited what on the servers.

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I don't usually agree with Twerk, but in this case I do.

 

Your example of a large "Goon Squad organization" is an example of ANY organization in NQ.  Some of these orgs will eventually evolve into "countries" or planetary rulers.

 

If you decide you don't want to be part of that "country", you may want to find another "country" for protection.  There will certainly be wars between these two countries for control of territory.  Do you really want to be caught in the middle, non aligned?  How well does that work in real life?

 

Instead of being targeted by half the player base, you're targeted by all of them.

That is actually right. Thing is, like in the real world, most Goons are not represented by their leadership. It's the same thing as saying "Hitler was Austria therefore all Austrians will be having a toothbrush moustache". 

 

And yeah, the playerbase will be divided into coalitions (a combination alliances, who are combinations of seperates organisations), probably, having both sides, of equally terrible people at their core, putting taxes onf people below them who just want to RP in the ame or PvE, in order to fund wars FAR FAR FAR away from the center of the faction, because one leader called the other a turbonerd.

 

 

Ah, they say Video Games are Art, and I do like it when art immiatates real life.

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