Dupont

Another important factor related to this is the lack of economic growth. PvP is the icing on the cake, but cannot be the sole core of the economy for the following reason:
 
The difference between a PUSH economy and a PULL economy.
 
In a PUSH economy:   When overall wealth comes from the lowest/first activity of the value chain, anything that follows it  along the creation chain is a luxury (meaning not a necessity)
                                        Thus, demand for complex goods happens only where there is excess capital and can be afforded.
 
In a PULL economy: The last link in the production chain is vital to the survival and profit of the main activities. In this case, there is a much larger demand pool because the entire                                                         production chain is needed to create the income and vital to providing the defense of income-creation equipment.
 
 
This is why making money from PvE rewards is much, much healthier for the economy than mining.  When overall demand is low as in the PUSH economy, all prices will eventually drop to the level of barely above the cost of input raw materials. This is due to an overabundance of supply competition.
 
The price premiums injected by the high cost of schematics will eventually fade away as it is only a fixed cost, and once people have recovered their initial investment, then excessive supply competition will force it down. The only long term fix is to increase demand.
 
 

And yet again, NQ has proven they're out of touch with how the players have been playing the game.
 
Setting up a factory to produce everything one desires is just the first step, for many of us, through ensuring we have a reliable supply of elements and material with which to build our ships. The market is unreliable or too time consuming. Why would we spend hours traveling to different markets to pick up various ship building parts when we can just mine ore from our tiles and make what we need?

That's a very... creative... interpretation there.
 
How does that stack with

"Mining Optimizations"
-5% time to reach max sphere size skill. 
 
And the "Advanced Mining"
+5% max sphere size.

please show us.


I'm going to test this language on my employes.... +5% salary earned per year... After 5 years you"ll be +25% more earned.... but only get paid for the first 80% of the day.

This is the game design decision I still can't figure out and am hoping for more clarification in future announcements/q&a's. Prior to the industry changes I thought the game was focused on player driven content and experiences. The industry changes both slowed down player driven developments and moved players to interact more with the non-player elements of the game (ore bots, schematics, nanoformer market, etc). The balance between player driven content and non-player driven content seems off right now.

I think the theory is that if there is a high demand, and no supply, the value of ore will increase to the point that the potential profit is enough of an incentive for people to go out and mine.
 
So the "somebody" who has to go out and mine, is whoever wants a piece of the action.
 
Eventually there will be enough ore, and the prices will drop, and then maybe almost no one will mine for a while.  Until the next boom.  Maybe some devious people will still mine, and sit on the ore until demand goes up again.
 
The missing puzzle piece right now is Demand, not supply.  People need more things to do with ore, and more things to do with Quanta.
 
NQ knows this.

Currently there are just two ways to make money in DU:
 
1. by getting the daily 150 kℎ
2. by mining and selling ore to bots
 
All other ways to 'make money' just mean that other players make money for you. If they stop doing it, because they are bored to death, you will need to do it yourself. Than you have even less time to do everything you want to do because you are mining all day long.

"YOU!!!! YES YOU! YOU BEHIND THE BENCHES. STAAAAAND STILL, LADDIE."

I love Pink Floyd so much.

PvP:  desert,  PvE: Meat and Potatoes
 
"How can you have any pudding if you didn't eat your meat?"
- Pink Floyd
 
Seriously though, the game needs cooperative battles on a regular basis - PvE against swarms of NPC invaders is the only thing that will keep people engaged and get the economy back up with this new hardcore industry concept.

The point is mining sux. But its the fkn basic of generating resources to build. U can buy ore? With what money? Where does the Money come from? There are no missions or other sources of money in the game. If u trade or offering services u get the money from other players. What means in the end u have two options. Doing boring mining or robbing others. What a scammer fest! It is just sad how New Players getting exploitet by the shidty ore prices. But in the end thats better than spending hours running through tunnels with a crap scanner and waiting for a circle to grow just to do a click afterwards. And repeat. For hours. Some may like this torture. Nothing wrong with that. But this cant be the base of the game. In the end only the hardcore player will stay and thats not the idea of a mmo.
 
The solution is simple. Make mining cool! Give us explosives or other cool gadjets to make it fun to do. Increasae the skills. Since even with lvl 4 of all related skills things get not better. Fix the scanner! Give it a option to pinpoint the ore node position with a 5 minute scanning delay. Whatever, but do something! Mining bots are ok as well. There is no difference in spending a hour to mine or waiting 5 hours to get the same amount by a mining unit. Thats all just a question of balancing. But by all means, stop forcing player to do this boring bullshidt. It only creates the deep wish to smash ur hardware.
 
 

Have your devs play the game , from the start with no god mode 
 
They will learn more from that than any hand picked forum

The other thought I had was that messages seem to be dropped under load. I hope the backend isn't using Kafka.  Kafka will drop packets under load, as it wasn't designed for transactional type messages, only for fast streaming where dropping random video frames doesn't matter.
 

As I have been playing this game for the past week, I have been wondering about the internal mechanics of the server engine. Obviously without the code I can't know what is going on , but I can guess.
 
1.  There are numerous microservices in a distributed environment.
2. While load is light, these work just fine, very efficiently.
3. When load is heavy, the queues get very deep and cause deadlocks between different microservices
4.  Users start cancelling requests with other actions
5.  The old actions are clogging up the queues, more incomplete actions pile up between the microservices as users get frustrated and repeat actions quickly.
6. Everything grinds to a halt until a bunch of people are forced to lose connections or the servers are reset.
 
 
My suggestions:
1.  Have a max queue depth of no longer than 10 millisecond's worth of data. Deeper queues are NOT better.
2. consider using parallel queues, if one gets stuck for too long, just kill the whole thing and proceed with the unstuck one.
3. Use backpressure to notify fillers of the queue to wait. It is easier to cancel actions if portions of it haven't been submitted to other microservices yet.
4. Consider using tags to quickly remove cancelled requests from heavily used queues.
 
Anyways, I hope NQ can solve this as I love the game and want to see it thrive.
 

I have to ask… Is this a game or a tech demo? There's a very important distinction to make here: a game has to be challenging. Right now we're in creative mode in Minecraft. For the game to exist long term, we have to switch to survival.
 
We're a PvP-oriented group. We *really* want this game to be successful but we're very concerned about the current state of the game, and hope [or lack thereof] for the future. This game needs a challenge. Without it, you have a community that will login, build their favorite childhood spaceship(s), and then go play something else. I'd be very curious what the daily active user count looks like since Beta launch. My guess is that it's not going up.  Longevity requires Challenging content, and in this game you have to have PvP in some form. PvP is unlimited/timeless content. Mining and ship building with no purpose will burn everyone out eventually. Most people that we know who are PvP-focused are not giving this game a chance right now, there is no content for them.
 
For this game to be great, players need to be confronted with interesting decisions, constantly. Currently, there are no interesting choices to make in this game.  Not in ship building, not in industry, not in gameplay. Ship building? Just add more. More engines, more brakes, more of everything. Industry? Just add more machines. Gameplay? Everything is perfectly safe. Pilots never need to make a decision of "do I risk this ship in order to achieve this goal?". The answer is always just warp there and be perfectly safe. This game might have made for some great YouTube videos so far, but that is not enough.
 
So here's my thoughts. But let me preface by saying that when PvP works in this game, it is some of the most rewarding and satisfying experiences of any game I've played. Taking constructs you have built into a fight adds an extra level of intensity during, as well as pride and accomplishment afterwards. Even when we don't win, we still acknowledge our ships performed admirably.
 
PRIORITY 0
Mining and industry: everything is done in complete safety. You can build anything and (almost) everything from inside the safe zone. There's no incentive to risk anything? The safe zone around Alioth, Madis and Thades needs to go ASAP. I know JC said it's not permanent, but the damage is already done. End game stuff should be risky. You can build basics from the safe zone, that's fine. But if you want high end / end game items, there needs to be risk in order for there to be value. Look at warp drives, they are already dirt cheap. Industry recipes needs to be redesigned and include higher tiered ores and things outside the safe zone. T4/T5 Ore is completely useless? We made a bonsai… now what? They aren’t better honeycombs either. Sure, they have more EHP/weight, but in terms of raw EHP, the obvious choice is Steel. It's objectively better, and it's made from readily-available T1 ore. Warp Drives: Everybody has a warp drive. There's no "safe zone" around planets anymore because (almost) nobody flies through the PvP zone. It shouldn't be possible to warp to a planet, load up on Ore, and warp back. But everyone is doing it. Can we make warp core usage exponential, as opposed to linear? Over-safety exploits that need to stop: Alt-F4 that has been sanctioned by NQ as being fine to do is ridiculous. It's not "emergency braking" as is described… it's just braking, for haulers, all the time. GM teleporting: this needs to stop. There's traders that just rely on GM's teleporting them and their ships full of cargo from market to market. The GMs are not overloaded anymore, in sharp contrast to beta launch. There's NO reason for this to continue. GM repairs: you crashed your ship and don't feel like repairing? Just get a GM to do it! What?!? Item destruction: Right now anything built in game never goes away (unless under very specific conditions). There needs to be a sink here. There needs to be some full destruction with RNG. This will greatly help the economy as PvP'ers getting blown up will keep demand high for Industrialists. Where is my loot fairy GDI?  
PRIORITY 1
The Meta issue: The meta in this game sucks: XS core cube with everything L/XL There has to be limitation on what you can put on a core. Whether that's a power grid system, or a hard limit on up-scaling (for example only being able to go up one Size, like an XS core can use XS or S, but nothing bigger). Having a ship with everything L/XL on XS core should not work. The lock range system has got to go. I want to take giant battleships into battle, but I can't because a couple XS cores will just wreck us. NQ needs to make us have to make interesting and/or difficult choices in the game. Right now the choice is "how many L Brakes can I fit on this thing?". It’s just about moar… moar… MOAR!! I've hit 17G braking in one of my ships (and I know folks have done moar). But 17G on a human body is dumb. Give us a pass out and/or die mechanic here. Or stress on components? You can't tell me an Aluminum ship can withstand that much pressure. There needs to be sacrifices or compromises when designing a ship. Do I go full speed? Full tank? Full guns? Bit of everything? Right now the answer is yes, to everything. Speed Tanking or Sig Tanking: We need to introduce a mechanic where L weapons don't do full damage to XS cores. It's crazy that I can put L weapons on an XS cores and do full damage to other XS. The desync often makes PvP impossible: If you get close to someone, they just teleport around all over the place. Half the time we can't shoot back because we don't know which way to point the ship. I've had my gunner have to tell me which direction to point my ship before because they were in sync… like Tom Hanks in Apollo 13 looking out the window. It's extremely frustrating to lose a ship, or even get damage because you can't fight back.  
PRIORITY 2
Immersive PvP experience: Lot of room for improvements here… getting hit should go BOOM Right now I can barely tell if I'm getting hit (I feel like I have to actively look for voxel damage) Voxel Options: for ship building, we need better Voxel options. Right now we basically do:    If PvP then steel
   Else aluminum
Cockpits: They are objectively worse than hovercraft seats. Please give us a reason to make cockpit ships. Windows: I'd love to make beautiful spaceships with lots of windows, but they are death traps. The economy is not picking up, it's just tanking due to cash injection. There's no item destruction in the game. Nothing of value ever disappears since you can repair everything (yes voxels do blow up, but that is very minor). That means overtime, demand does not keep up with supply, and the value of items plummet. We need to either stop the cash injection, or make things disappear from the game a lot more  
Ultimately, NQ is going to upset *some* people with the decisions they will be making in this game. I just hope they don't upset the people that will make this game successful in the long term. The loudest voices are rarely the voices of reason.
 
Vheox
Scotch & Tea™ - Purveyors of the finest goods this side of Alioth.

As I have been playing this game for the past week, I have been wondering about the internal mechanics of the server engine. Obviously without the code I can't know what is going on , but I can guess.
 
1.  There are numerous microservices in a distributed environment.
2. While load is light, these work just fine, very efficiently.
3. When load is heavy, the queues get very deep and cause deadlocks between different microservices
4.  Users start cancelling requests with other actions
5.  The old actions are clogging up the queues, more incomplete actions pile up between the microservices as users get frustrated and repeat actions quickly.
6. Everything grinds to a halt until a bunch of people are forced to lose connections or the servers are reset.
 
 
My suggestions:
1.  Have a max queue depth of no longer than 10 millisecond's worth of data. Deeper queues are NOT better.
2. consider using parallel queues, if one gets stuck for too long, just kill the whole thing and proceed with the unstuck one.
3. Use backpressure to notify fillers of the queue to wait. It is easier to cancel actions if portions of it haven't been submitted to other microservices yet.
4. Consider using tags to quickly remove cancelled requests from heavily used queues.
 
Anyways, I hope NQ can solve this as I love the game and want to see it thrive.
 

As I have been playing this game for the past week, I have been wondering about the internal mechanics of the server engine. Obviously without the code I can't know what is going on , but I can guess.
 
1.  There are numerous microservices in a distributed environment.
2. While load is light, these work just fine, very efficiently.
3. When load is heavy, the queues get very deep and cause deadlocks between different microservices
4.  Users start cancelling requests with other actions
5.  The old actions are clogging up the queues, more incomplete actions pile up between the microservices as users get frustrated and repeat actions quickly.
6. Everything grinds to a halt until a bunch of people are forced to lose connections or the servers are reset.
 
 
My suggestions:
1.  Have a max queue depth of no longer than 10 millisecond's worth of data. Deeper queues are NOT better.
2. consider using parallel queues, if one gets stuck for too long, just kill the whole thing and proceed with the unstuck one.
3. Use backpressure to notify fillers of the queue to wait. It is easier to cancel actions if portions of it haven't been submitted to other microservices yet.
4. Consider using tags to quickly remove cancelled requests from heavily used queues.
 
Anyways, I hope NQ can solve this as I love the game and want to see it thrive.