plmkoi

I have already stated that it needs to be streamlined as someone that played Eve would know, that streamlining corp management would help prevent people burning out. There has already been dozens of threads on Reddit, that one of the major issues is the burn out and in CCP's case not putting in tools or tools that make management more tedious. But I won't debate this point as the game still in early alpha and I expect things to either change or a better video put out on managing 100+ people using the rdms system. Stuff like this makes me question of your claimed time in Eve. We both know that people are risk adverse and creating a large enough safe zone would help facilitate as an anchor for commerce and allow people that wouldn't be into pvp games to try out and stick with the game. It also serves as a safe spot to re launch from should things go south for your outfit and once again, if you played Eve you would know that getting evicted you don't go into a different part of null or low sec, you regather/rebuild in empire. I find it fascinating that people think Eve is a hardcore pvp game when 80% of it is streamlined for carebear options, hell 3/4 of the people are part carebear. Sec status is garbage in Eve because of how easy it is to circumvent the process and CCP never really caring until now to fix the issue. It's main purpose is to create disincentives and applies risk, in this case getting cut off from markets that are not only stable, but also safe to get your resources. Next it would only be applied once again on the starting planet and the area around it. Please point to me one game that has lawlessness outside of a city of 1 km and that is successful? CCP knew that it had to put in some controls that would make the game more palatable to a wider audience. I am still await your actual evidence on how sec status is terrible. Mine is Darkfall and Immortal Online, do I need to continue? This isn't an open world game it is a sand box mmo which means it is much bigger and the developers said that Eve is the inspiration, which shows in their work so far. Your argument seems to be this irrational fear that this is going to apply to every planet in the game, when in reality the developers already said that they are going to have multiple planets and the rewards are as they said "fortune favors the brave". DU's next competitor Ashes of Creation also realizes the reality that anonymous people on the Internet don't really police themselves and tend to do things that are detrimental to the game, as CCP is now learning with almost no new blood coming into the game. This makes even more sense why you have this weird perception in regards to sec status, because you are playing the only aspect of the game that is risk free. I have done everything from Industry/mining, to joining null alliances, to exploring and living out of wormholes, and even market pvp. It is very difficult to evict people out of wormholes and takes a lot of effort which most people won't put in (insert the collapsing a wormhole bs). You are literally playing the most risk free aspect of Eve and even null players has it worse then you before black out. I am sure you don't exit out null sec and jump system to system to empire to sell your cargo. You do what any sane person does and that is get out in empire or a low sec system that is reasonably close to a high sec system. As for the set everyone to red, once again their current videos you have to manually type in names. But then again you are probably disclosing stuff in the game that I don't know as I only watched the video that the studio put out. Final thoughts: I am all up for lawlessness outside of a 5 km distance of the city, but I question the longevity of the game in the long run. Some people for some reason believe that lawlessness with barely a safe zone is going to make the game a success. I am skeptical, as one other title came out with the same concept called Darkfall and everyone knows how that turned out. People forget Eve is only successful because you have places like Eve Uni that can train newbros in a safe controlled environment with some restrictions in place to get people to play the game long term. I was there when every single griefing corp war dec'ed Eve Uni for easy lulzy kills and the reality is Eve Uni wouldn't exist today if you are allowed to destroy their base of operations. My hope is that as time goes on the studio realizes that having a secure zone that is larger would be beneficial to the game (reiterate for the upteenth time a planet 20km). Why a planet, well we can already see Jita having 1k easy on a slow day. Makes me wonder how an area of 2 km or w/e size is going to give people enough space to have a safe base of operations. But I will give you the last word and hopefully I am able see another fresh perspective next time I come back.

But that is your perception on what is immersion and for others it is social aspects, building, and etc. The immersion aspect that draws me and most likely others is that everything you do is going to have some impact/meaning. You can play a theme park and keep questing on rescuing the same villager or killing the same pirate or you can join an outfit and disable their defenses allowing your outfit that you work for destroy a space station. I mean there are games on the market that allows you to get all the detailed animations in a sci-fi setting. Heck there is a game that allows you to play as a janitor on a space station. Need to keep in mind that the studio should be focusing on the mmo aspect which means social and group play. Not sure what you are going for here. But I suggest you re-watch all the videos and just look at the Fortnite stream. Like comparing apples to a fish. We also don;t even know how the ground combat is going to work, but it is irrelevant as most combat is always going to be with vehicles. I am skeptical on the uses of infantry unless they decide to allow people to create/manufacture their own weapons.

It isn't and here is why. If you have to rely solely on individual bodies then guess what is going to happen? People would just zerg, you already see this crap in Eve. This game is already kind of moving into the direction where there is massive incentives in joining a blue doughnut. Now with automated turrets you can as I said in a previous post make it costly for the aggressor. Now can the larger entities do it, well yea. But with "resource scarcity" the incentive to put in a crap ton of turrets over ships and capital ships is in my opinion small, especially if you have espionage that can just disable them or sabotage them. If you are a large entity it is more logical to just dump your resources into more ships to accommodate your large personnel advantage. I am willing to concede that we can put limitations in the turrets like what I heard where turrets not controlled by a player is less effective, like making it more resource intensive with power, cpu, and etc. "The time and effort needed to build ships is a static defense." Wrong, this is an oxymoron as ships are mobile and can leave the area if the situation is un salvageable. Placed turrets are not the same thing, like saying a tank is static defense. "Safe zones will definitely be a static defense." Safe zones i.e you mean starting zones? Because outside of the starting zone it is as safe as ability to conjure up enough bodies to fight off an aggressor. "Do I think that there should be automatic unmanned turrets that fire at ships? no." Then I hope you look forward to getting zerged, as outfits would just join larger blobs. Eve has already shown what is human nature (being risk adverse) and what the result is. If you want small outfits to never build stuff on claimed territory, then sure let's not put into the game disincentives to just wipe out people for the lulz. The point of adding automated turrets is that it gives smaller entities force multipliers and increases the cost of siege people. If I have 300 people, do you think that 10 people is going to stop me from steam rolling them for the lulz? I can tell you in my head I might lost at most a couple guys as we zerg them. But not lets add to the calculation that this group has a tank or two with a few dozen shitty automated turrets. Am I going to weaken my outfit to destroy a person's creation and risk losing maybe half of my guys and air support? Probably not unless I desperately want that piece of land and it is going to give me an roi for the losses I suffered taking it. Pvp drastically differs once you go from theme park with infinite resources to a game that encourages resource scarcity. That is why you don't see alliance waging massive wars on a constant basis as that is resources you have to replace if as they say, shit really hits the fan.

Not sure how the trees is going to create lag if they already have tons of people moving in a small area. I question how realistic that would be for people to randomly plant millions of trees if a) you have to harvest the seeds and b) you have to wait for them to slowly grow over time, like a small growth per downtime. Then if the trees can be used for resources, I am skeptical there is going to be a forest. Just look at our own environment on what we do to trees, I am skeptical people are going to spend most of their time/effort to plant trees if it is going to get torn down for resources. Then we have to factor in the issue of land and obviously the trees are going to be limited to only certain planets. I feel the claims of developers saying it creates a massive lag is a cop out of not implementing them in the game. If there is no possibility to make wooden furniture, then I would agree that trees being planted would be a pointless endeavor to implement.

Well I think it would be pretty cool to add it into the game, but I think we should not limit to harvesting gases to ships. The biggest strength of this game is that it truly is a sand box and creativity is going to be a big draw. I don't see why you can't just build a station on the gas planet if you have the resources/investment and harvest it on the planet passively before refinement. I think it would be pretty cool for people to create like a mining colony like this pic of a scene in Jupiter Ascending. Outside structure is like glass and that prevents the winds from tearing the structures inside apart. Kind of interesting that in fantasy/Sci-fi we have tons of info we can mine for ideas/inspiration.

I am going to assume that this is to make an in game radio station? If so, well the problem with this is that it might become a liability for the studio because of copy right. Music labels would sue the crap out. U.S copy right laws are very strict and it isn't unheard of people in Europe getting sued in Virginia and the plaintiff just asking for a default judgement on the defendant. Just go through the Torrent Freak articles on the hundreds of cases of copy right owners going straight to litigation.

Well I gave some more thought on the matter and you could make contraband by using the starting areas. If they expanded the starting areas to be the entire small planet and allow care bears that are super risk adverse to rent land from the npc's, with the cash going straight to the npc's as a tax. So what does this do? This will basically turn the planet into Jita and so it would behoove people run their goods their and sell it as it would be guaranteed that their crap would be safe. NPC police would enforce what ever npc laws 20km of the planet and the gate for people to safely jump to a few of the care bear planets. Why would people sell there? Well the fact that humans are generally risk adverse. If you don't believe me just look at how CCP put in that crap of "asset safety" over allowing a citadel that gets destroyed have people lose all their stuff + clones and looted by the aggressors.

Well I was under the impression that you couldn't really build once the territory has been claimed. So if you make a house and don't claim the territory, then you can expect an outfit to bull doze said house when they evict you. I don't see why they can't put roads in if you have cores that run the length of that highway or just in general without cores. The videos put out is that you can terrform anything, but if someone claims that land and you didn't, then their ownership of that land supersedes you current creation.

The issue with this is that people wouldn't utilize it and if anything it is going to probably piss off people that never played a real sandbox game. Players that already been in a sand box mmo is already going to know it is a worthless talent, as you can just easily earn cash by playing the market. The people that is going to get pissed off, is people that never played a sand box mmo and is going to put points into it and realize later on that it is worthless. Contrary to public perception, people generally don't hoard cash just for the sake of hoarding cash. They have a lot of cash as a rainy day fund just in case they get a shitty day from like a gank/etc and use the rest to further their preferred game play. As for the economics side of the game, people seem to have the misconception that real world < Eve economy. The game economy is quite easy to grasp in my opinion as it really is basically faucets, sinks, standard currency (think gold), and commodities. We aren't dealing with loans, bonds, stocks, and other financial instruments. The developers can actually apply some theory now while the game is in its infancy to test it out with the testers as putting it later in the game is going to be a bad idea. Only thing viable is loans and they can just rip off Eve with a contract system. Bnods/stocks is doable, not sure how you can implement it without it being a waste of code.

I support this concept in the game, but I am also going to be honest and state that I a sociopath that loves to grief people, because I am a sadist. If you put in a imprisonment I can actually tell you what I would plan on doing as soon as the game goes into launch. I would first recruit people that have the same play style as me and this is not hard when you have Goons and once we established territory, we would imprison people just for the lol's. If we can get them to quit that would be even better and enjoy those tears. I highly suggest you look into the sand box games that came out in the past and learn that there is a lot of people that would do the above. You would be surprised how many people tend to scale closer to my play style.

I honestly think the studio should add the VR aspect later down the line, after they added more meat to the game like more modules, systems, and stream lining a lot of the current systems so far put out.

I don't see why we couldn't put tickets or coins/other collectibles into the game. The i.d system is unnecessary imo, but like raffle tickets and stuff would be extremely beneficial as it takes place in the game and makes it easier for the developers to track things. If stuff like this isn't put into the game, then what usually happens is that players create such systems outside of the game and this is how a lot of botters/isk sellers launder their cash. Then the developers has to do what CCP did which is kill some of the sandbox aspects of the game by banning creative stuff. The other thing this would help is create "in game entertainment" so players would actually want to be in an actual city/bar/club/brothel/etc. No other mmo was able to replicate this effectively other then Star Wars Galaxies and there was a good article on it. As much as people hated the Eve Incarna debacle, I kind of supported it, as it would have created a more immersive experience and another outlet for people other then flying around in space. Right now, the reason why mmo's has this single player experience mentality is because the game design was put in place that didn't create opportunities for players to socialize with each other. Ultima Online and Everquest had a natural forced aspect because of the harshness of the environment, while Star Wars Galaxies with the placement of quests and stuff in I recall a bar had players congregate there and eventually people started to socialize (been a hot minute since I read the game design article on social aspects of mmo's). I am more for adding elements that brings back the original concept of what mmo was. If you can add social functions into the game this game has the possibility to kill a lot of the other competitors, as I can assure you that Ashes of Creation head guy is really looking into this as it was discussed a lot on what the developers can add to make the game more immersive besides the city politics.

Well the thing is that infinite currency isn't really an issue and people are literally taking concepts from theme park mmo's and applying it to a "Eve like" sand box game. Scarcity in currency is going to happen, as many people don't spend every single penny they get as soon as they get it. There was a post a long time ago that CCP put out, it basically showed that there are trillions of isk in the game, but a lot of the currency is in player wallets. It is not affecting the economy in any way and that the heavy spenders tends to not be the people with hundreds of billions of isk in their wallet, but the people with tens of billions. This has to do with the fact they kept a lot of the sink artificially low and on top of that they decided to stagnate/kill their game with the introduction of citadels. Well here is why I doubt you do, "a player could earn money in other ways, like designing a ship and selling it. ". This isn't creating money, but a transfer of wealth from one player to another. In mmo's currency isn't just magically appear in the wallet, they received it from another source and that source is through the npc's or the game itself not a player. As for abuse of the faucets/sinks in Eve that only came if you botted. The only manipulation a individual can do is mess with the premium currency which wasn't plex, but gtc's. I usually joined the groups of people that would push the prices high to 1.5 times 99% of the time in comparison to plex. Sometimes double and that was because it was easily abused from the lack of transparency aka no graphs to show you someone is trying to manipulate the market. Only heavy sellers would know when someone is artificially raising the prices because the prices go up pretty fast within a week and then tank once the person made their premium. I don't think it is necessary as currently the developers are basically are saying mine all your stuff and sell it to npc's. Now I disagree with adding missions, unless they have some system that makes in immensely difficult for botters to abuse that system. But the current only faucet is sell stuff to npc's at set prices is terrible in my opinion as what is the incentive for me to mine other then a forced op's by your outfit? I suspect that the early days players that make currency is going to get a lot of free months of the premium currency since it is going to be at a premium, unless they start allowing players to create isk.

"I don't need to describe anything here how griefers will be blocked - because I already did that by saying: " markets are run by players, so they will naturally block griefers to access those "- lolz Now I hope you aren't seriously going to believe in this, reality is going to disappoint you. I have seen that thrown around so much, I really tried to research where people came up with this idea and from what mmo. Literally every FFA/pvp heavy mmo market access is never an issue and you don't have to just base it off games, you can see it in reality. ISIS was terrible in many people's opinions and it still didn't prevent them from utlizing the market. It is human nature that, as Gekko said, "greed is good". As for the reputation system, yes the RDMS is strong, but it is too much micro and with loop holes. But like I said, I will wait for a better in depth video where it isn't utilizing a system that would be amazing for a games scale of Space Engineer's and more to an actual Civ building game that they are advertising. Again, the Sec status is limited to one planet or whatever and it can easily work, as many games have done it. Again, I am unsure what mmo's you have played, but it is apparent that it was never a sand box/pvp centric. Nothing to do with punishing players as even the Eve sec status doesn't stop suicide ganking, if anything, it just protects the new players of that area. 20 km sounds like a lot, but it won't be as surprisingly there are a lot of "carebears" and with enough time you can convert them to pvper's, I had done it in Eve. As for the final paragraph, it is obvious you never played Eve, as organization's are going to enact a NBSI policy 70% of the time. The ones that don't will still do business with people like me, as the morality of griefing in reality, is inconsequential to many people and you see it in Eve. Only snowflakes believe in that crap that the community will police up griefers and it is the most delusional thing I have read in the forums after tons of titles that had FFA pvp are dead (eve isn't FFA). This whole Org/alliance doing the policing people touted on these forums are in my opinion, people who never played Eve online or anything similar. The ones running these organizations are going to have a rude awakening when they encounter the meta game actual Eve players employ. People fail to realize the point of Eve's sec status implementation and that is usually because of people playing the game after 2012. It is to prevent easy griefing, which meant it required some actual effort. Stuff like this helps ensure that the game will always have a higher success chance of converting players into the long haul. You are probably unaware, but Eve is in decline because of the poor foresight of the studio to change the toxic HTFU mentality. We don't have to follow in CCP's footsteps and we can actually have a higher conversion rate then CCP will ever have. This game is quite capable of catering to both "carebears" and "pvpers" and "sociopaths". At the end of the day I am still confident the game is going to be 90% null and 10% empire, I just would like to increase the latter slightly. As for Novaquarks "wants" in all honesty we don't know for sure as they have changed things and adapted, which a competently run studio should. They have considered putting in automated turrets that everyone here has said shouldn't be in the game, but they are going to put mechanisms in to make it work in DU from the explanations.

Yes, to get any type of money, but what I am referring to is faucets, that means creation of currency. Faucets are non player controlled ways for the game to inject cash into the game and you have sinks that removes the money from the game to avoid devaluing the money. If the only method of generating cash is through the sale of ore to npc's, I expect people to just hoard the cash. People afraid of "infinite currency" have obviously never played any mmo outside of a theme park. I believe the developers are going to have to put more thought into how they are going to inject cash into the game. If you want to get a better idea on how a sand box economy works, this guy does a okay job explaining it.

Well if that is the case, sounds like it would be better to just have a rail system implemented into the game. The videos already makes gas very expensive.

Isn't the game only being tested for player load on the server? A lot of the video they showed off was just players walking around in a small area, I would assume problems start to crop up as soon as you have pvp combat. I would assume that adding physics like the above video would be an issue for a small company with finite resources, not to mention the amount of programming adding nice physics to the game.

I think the fear should not be the infinite money, but the lack of money. I really do hope that the studio really looks into another faucet besides just relying on ore buy/sell orders. Sounds like hell if I have to dig for rocks just to make some cash. That is going to kill game pr: Noob: How do you make money? Vet: Go out into the wild and dig for rocks and sell it to npc's. After doing that 150 times you can finally afford a speeder.

I think everyone is blowing the rmt'ing way out of proportions. I played Eve since 09' and while yes the plex created a black market, it was no where close to Wow's or any other theme park mmo's scale. All the game's you mentioned were mainly theme park mmo's and the leveling could be done if you paid someone to power level for you. DU is copying off Eve's model for a good reason, that skills/abilities are time based. This in itself is a major deterrent for a lot of players if DU decides to go heavy handed with a ban or CCP's method of draining your account of all the illicit cash you paid for even if it goes into the negative. If anything the bot's are going to make the studio filthy rich because those accounts are going to have to resub and players punished for buying dirty currency will have to climb out of that hole with game time sales on the forum. If they do what CCP does, it will be wait for a couple months as they collect all the id's of players selling/bot farming (insta ban) and players purchasing the dirty money. They would then ban those accounts and by that point players have used the dirty currency and so if you don't have that amount in your wallet, well you are going to be in the whole for a lot = aka sell game time on the market or quit and lose that investment of months or years for that account. Plus from what I am seeing so far how the game's vision/development. Botting is going to be very challenging endeavor based off a lot of the mechanics that requires some active participation. The only thing this studio has to do different from CCP, is to make sure that they look into player organizations trying to launder that dirty money and punish the leaders.

Unlike those other games you mentioned, they are going to be selling game time for player to utilize for resale in game cash. Only reason why Eve Online is different is that yes they sell game time, but they also have mission running and mining mechanics that can easily be replicated by bots. There are always going to be botting in mmo's, the difference being the scale/amount that goes on in the game. CCP had botting under control for the most part until they allowed limited free 2 play and after that point it is wildly out of control.

My interpretation of this thread (correct me if I am wrong) is people being impatient with the development. If that is, the only thing I am going to add is that if people are impatient in regards to a game that is developing, it is time they put their time into something more productive. I remember when people were impatient for Trion's Rift and End of Nations when it came to testing and development of extra features that were half baked. Well one wasn't too successful post launch and the other was scrapped before many people can play the open beta. If people can wait for Star Citizen, I am sure we can be patient with DU.

Well depending on how much content the dev's put into their game there are a lot of professions you can do. You can slave away mining resources for other players or organizations. Be a weapons or building designer and sell the prints on the market. You can space haul stuff to sell at other systems or build yourself a Millennium Falcon and haul stuff to organization's that are dealing with a space blockade Or be a spai, commit corporate espionage or sabotage another organization's defenses Take bounties on people Like I said it is really going to be dependent on the features as launch and shorty after. All but the designer point were actual professions in Eve before CCP started to kill them, in particular smuggling was pretty cool.

Well this would be too reliant on player run organizations to not kill the game. Sounds like you are just advocating for what Eve already has in place. That is why they need to implement a neutral gate for anyone to get access too. This is the way I see things as well. The dial in feature sounds like a lot of extra work for the developers for little gain in my view. I don't see why they can't just put in neutral gates that were made by the flood, space marines, insert "species" here and allow anyone to use the gates to jump into systems that have a lot of planets nearby. Then have built gates that players can put in, that is connected to another point according to the max distance allowed for the gate, built for organizations to utilize. This prevents people from being forced to rely on player organizations and prevents cheese. This whole idea of letting players control the gates and main modes of travel sounds a bit ludicrous. Allow players to create their own separate gates that aren't connected to the main mode of traveling and they can charge or not. It still gives options for emergent game play, but avoids a situation where the abuse can kill the game or the developers later in an expansion or two has to intervene and get crapped on through PR with the griefing. Why put ourselves in a situation where players has to spend a week to drop another gate to a system, just for that organization to find it and blow it up? This sounds like the same idea of asking for a lot of stealth tech to avoid having your territory claim visible.

Well they have to follow some procedures to take your claim as it isn't permanent, am I right or wrong? I was tracking it wouldn't be any of the shenanigans from games like Rust, where you build something and log off just for someone to tear it down. Or did all this change recently?

Well the DU version of gold is going to be the game time you can openly sale on the market. That is from my understanding the biggest metric on the inflation or deflation of the game and nearly impossible to manipulate if it is transparent. As cool as it would be I don't think it is worth the effort. If I had to spit ball on possible design ideas it would be: Make skill training be very tedious/long in order to be able to sell stocks on an exchange. So a player that wants to take the corp public would take nearly a year to fully train a level 5 skill. This is to prevent multi accounts from starting them up and scamming like you see on Eve. If you decide to take a corp public there has to be a feature where assets are locked down to the corp and not removable and it matches the valuation requested. Assets being sold to another individual has to be approved by share holders. Assets are locked down during the ipo and won't be finalized until after a certain % of shares are sold or time has been past. Basically the stocks that were bought with in game $ is in escrow until one or both above features are met. You would have to put in a lot of effort into making the financials transparent and this is not going to be easy. This is where I leave it to people who actually does trades irl Just from these points it is pretty obvious in my opinion the scale/difficulty of putting these features into the game in any expansions over the decade of this title (if it lasts that long). I think a better use is allowing us to have contracts that we can put up collateral held in escrow and we loan people the in game money with w/e interest rate the players set. They fail to pay off the loan then you own the collateral. This is an easier way to get your business off the ground with a cash infusion from an angel investor.