Loading Weapons

[Halo381]

Bit of a trivial topic, but seeing as projectile weapons are a thing, there are a couple ways one could go about supplying ammo for such a weapon. You could use:

 

A) a Mass Effect style system, where your ammo comes from a wedge of steel inside the weapon; the top layer is shaved off and used as a projectile. This means you'll only have to replace the item once in a blue moon, though you're still limited by thermal energy produced within the weapon.

 

B ) a normal ballistic weapon system, with the ammo being stored within clips and magazines, and loaded into the weapon separately. This means you'll have to produce bullets and the like, and magazines for them. Could become another market within the game. A bit less limited by thermal energy, but it could potentially prove a problem.

 

C) a conveyor system, like in Space Engineers, where if they're in your inventory, or a ship's cargo hold, they feed directly into the weapon. Simpler than the other two, but less realistic, and thus less immersive.

 

Commence deliberation!

[Shynras]

i think the game will have a good variety of weapon. This means that any of them may have a different loading mechanism. 

Option A and B are pretty much the same (as a mechanic), beside the fact that option A is intended to last longer. So If option B is going to be in the game (I mean it's pretty standard, i don't think they can avoid that), option A could be added to the game as a weapon intended for exploring or long fights. 

Option C is a different mechanics, and hopefully will be added to the game (since we've seen already some pipes for energy, adding a item-pipe should be easy, and I do expect that).

 

More options?

-A weapon that uses energy, like a laser (probably planned), so it doesn't need to be loaded.

-A weapon that uses scraps? So you would need some sort of system to collect garbage on the field and use that as a free ammo?

-A weapon that can "absorb" (or stop with a gravity field) an enemy projectile, and send it back?

...

[Anaximander]

I couldn't care less for space-ship combat, I am here for the ground-pound combat. So, press R to reload, or make it a round based systtem with an overheat mechanism, forcing you to maintain a rotation on your weapons, especially on a mech.

[Cornflakes]

Point C is pretty much common place for cannons that are big enough in RL.

or would at least be no change in the guns themseld but only in the ammunition stores and ammo distribution.

 

From what i can tell from the graphics i can find "classic" iowa class battleship turrets have no magazine per se, only successive buffer rings which are supplied constantly

[Shynras]

Point C is pretty much common place for cannons that are big enough in RL.

or would at least be no change in the guns themseld but only in the ammunition stores and ammo distribution.

 

From what i can tell from the graphics i can find "classic" iowa class battleship turrets have no magazine per se, only successive buffer rings which are supplied constantly

 

A weapon that uses a standard ballistic system, still has a limited capacity for ammo inside it. That's when option C comes handy, to increase that limit. 

[Anaximander]

A weapon that uses a standard ballistic system, still has a limited capacity for ammo inside it. That's when option C comes handy, to increase that limit. 

But say good-bye to your rate-of-fire, if your conveyor mechanism is clanky.

[KingofPR]

I m also here for the ground combat,all i need is Possible guns that could be used and maybe even realistic armor?

[Anaximander]

Meh, make armor like Planetside 1. Get 3 tiers (possibly modable armors) that allow a certain inventory space and hoslter size. 



Scout armor : Got cloak and a small inventory and one type 1 holster.

Medium armor : More speed and one tier 2 weapon holster for a rifle type weapon, or shotugn.

Heavy armor : Bulky, slow, eduring with a one tier 2 and 1 tier 3 holster and a large inventory for many a magazines.


You dig? And then you get armors and what materials they are made out of.

[Archer]

I would use a hybrid system for ship weapons.  Basically each weapon may or may not have a magazine depending on the nature of the weapon; a giant cannon might only load a single round at a time but a point defense gun might load a drum holding 1,000 rounds.  On top of that you can build a conveyor system which will automatically pull ammo from a storage unit and load it into the gun as needed or you can omit the conveyor system and have players load it manually.  In the case of the big gun this would mean either the conveyor or the players have to be active full time while the gun is firing and the limiting factor on rate of fire is how long it takes to load each round.  In the case of the point defense gun the entire magazine is swapped out to reload in blocks of 1,000, though whether this is done by a player or a machine this takes time and forces a pause to reload.  The choice between a conveyor and player is the classic auto-loader dilemma.  If you spend the mass to have a conveyor system then you can generally reload more quickly but that mass is good for reloading and nothing else.  If you spend the mass on another player (including the character's mass plus whatever additional life support or interior space might be required) then your load times might be slower and less consistent but that player can also fend off boarders, repair battle damage and serve as an extra set of eyes when they're not loading the gun.  If you use neither then you can use that gun on a smaller ship but your gunner will have to leave the gun controls to reload the weapon.  It should make an interesting design tradeoff.

[Shynras]

But say good-bye to your rate-of-fire, if your conveyor mechanism is clanky.

well, it should not be easy to build a good competitive ship, otherwise the entire builder profession wouldn't have a place in this game.

[Velenka]

I like Archer's idea. It works pretty well for Space Engineers. As for clankiness, SE's default conveyor system sometimes doesn't load your rocket launchers fast enough, but it's easy enough to write a script to load it. This is one possible way to balance things.

 

Reloading probably isn't an issue for energy based weapons, but cooling probably is. Faster "reload" times could be accomplished via more radiators/cooling device.

[GalloInfligo]

Happiness is a belt fed weapon

[Anaximander]

Happiness is a belt fed weapon

Life is too short for reloads, am I right?

[SilverRangerOne]

I would say, Each weapon has it's own ammo store say, 10 missiles for a missile launcher. And it automatically feeds in, but missile ammo has to be refilled mid-combat, so it doesn't stop firing. So we can have a reason to have crew dedicated to replacing ammo. More logistic thoughts too.

 

Lasers wouldn't need this though, and would only have to worry about overheating and range.

[Anaximander]

I would say, Each weapon has it's own ammo store say, 10 missiles for a missile launcher. And it automatically feeds in, but missile ammo has to be refilled mid-combat, so it doesn't stop firing. So we can have a reason to have crew dedicated to replacing ammo. More logistic thoughts too.

 

Lasers wouldn't need this though, and would only have to worry about overheating and range.

Or even better, having a player be the medic and have a giant backpack with medical "ammunition" to fire his FutureSpace Healing Gun on other people. Or have different armor types with different carrying capacities and bonuses to cater to each player's gmeplay. Make armors lightwieght with active camouflage, medium and rocket boosters, heavy and built like a brick shit-house. The possibilities are endless. And I like your style. Rocket Launcher, cause nothing says "I hate you bruh" like a rocket to the face xD

[krm398]

Hmm I didnt see my idea here yet so try this...in the future we will have technology that we only dream about today. So...miners never need to tunnel because their machines transport ore from underground via some sort of teleporter system, and in space projectile weapons get their ammo from passing bits of metal rich rock and the ammo that get stored in the weapons area or storage for cargo. Projectiles are nothing but bullets and in space armor piercing would the rule of the day, so iron ore works perfectly and a small automated teleporter beam ( made into every ship at the factory) can be used to gather cargo found floating or ore found as the ship flys along. The finished bullets gets stored until needed and get loaded automatically until they run out. Thats it...projectile weapons of the future most likely will be magnetic cannons or the like, so iron bullets are simple to make and get.

[this3ndup]

Does anyone have any links to statements from the devs regarding ballistic weapons?  I was under the impression that weapons firing any kind of physical projectile had been nixed in favor of "energy" weapons as those are easier to handle in terms of server resources.  I could be wrong, but I do remember reading something along those lines.

[Anaximander]

Does anyone have any links to statements from the devs regarding ballistic weapons?  I was under the impression that weapons firing any kind of physical projectile had been nixed in favor of "energy" weapons as those are easier to handle in terms of server resources.  I could be wrong, but I do remember reading something along those lines.

Look at the Ask Us Anything thread on the main page. There you can find a response that pretty much declares that energy weapons and ballistic weaponry will be handled the same for the server load, in other words, simple cosmetic projectiles, with possibly a travel time for the projectiles to enable for a counter-play with the shield system, while laser having cooldown sessions  and instant travel for a balance between the two.

 

If you played WoW, is the exact same thing in a way like Presence of Mind Pyroblasts and the Shaman Shock spells. Pyroblast travels through the air until it "connects" and deals its damage (or for 3.5 seconds in flight before hitting anyways), while Shocks are instant if within range.

 

If you see a pyroblast coming, you can reflect or pop a shield as it flies to reflect it back to the caster, but a shock you have to have foresight to reflect it.

 

Hope I was comprehensive.

[this3ndup]

Look at the Ask Us Anything thread on the main page. There you can find a response that pretty much declares that energy weapons and ballistic weaponry will be handled the same for the server load, in other words, simple cosmetic projectiles, with possibly a travel time for the projectiles to enable for a counter-play with the shield system, while laser having cooldown sessions and instant travel for a balance between the two.

 

If you played WoW, is the exact same thing in a way like Presence of Mind Pyroblasts and the Shaman Shock spells. Pyroblast travels through the air until it "connects" and deals its damage (or for 3.5 seconds in flight before hitting anyways), while Shocks are instant if within range.

 

If you see a pyroblast coming, you can reflect or pop a shield as it flies to reflect it back to the caster, but a shock you have to have foresight to reflect it.

 

Hope I was comprehensive.

I looked over all the posts there to see if I missed anything, and I'm not seeing the response you refer to (or any questions about the topic at all). I'll have to see if I can dig up the statements I remember reading; I'm fairly certain it exists somewhere!

[Anaximander]

I looked over all the posts there to see if I missed anything, and I'm not seeing the response you refer to (or any questions about the topic at all). I'll have to see if I can dig up the statements I remember reading; I'm fairly certain it exists somewhere!

After trying to find the post, I fell short on it. The idea is that the projectiles act as visual referrence for "time to respond" on the receiving end. You see missile coming? Well, they are slow compared to lasers, so you have to time to power the shields. Laser? Good luck reacting to the speed of light.  That's my point. The post I've read had something about that the projectiles were not "physically intercepted" sicnce the game utilises alock-on mechanic, but it provides you a chance for counter-play if you have the experience to see a trick coming.. or the other side telegraphs it.

 

In my example. pyroblast is like a rocket while a shock is like a laser. Both are lock-on, but only on of them has a real "travelling time". If I find the post, I'll post the link here.

[Halo381]

Hmm I didnt see my idea here yet so try this...in the future we will have technology that we only dream about today. So...miners never need to tunnel because their machines transport ore from underground via some sort of teleporter system, and in space projectile weapons get their ammo from passing bits of metal rich rock and the ammo that get stored in the weapons area or storage for cargo. Projectiles are nothing but bullets and in space armor piercing would the rule of the day, so iron ore works perfectly and a small automated teleporter beam ( made into every ship at the factory) can be used to gather cargo found floating or ore found as the ship flys along. The finished bullets gets stored until needed and get loaded automatically until they run out. Thats it...projectile weapons of the future most likely will be magnetic cannons or the like, so iron bullets are simple to make and get.

 

A teleporter system? Sounds a bit too OP to me. And automatic loading, while practical, also makes it kind of easy to tell who can win a battle; whoever has the most ammo. I was thinking more like you've got a box of 10,000 rounds for your gatling gun, and once that empties, you've gotta press a button to insert a new one, which takes time and thus makes you vulnerable to attack. It makes combat more dynamic

[Anaximander]

A teleporter system? Sounds a bit too OP to me. And automatic loading, while practical, also makes it kind of easy to tell who can win a battle; whoever has the most ammo. I was thinking more like you've got a box of 10,000 rounds for your gatling gun, and once that empties, you've gotta press a button to insert a new one, which takes time and thus makes you vulnerable to attack. It makes combat more dynamic

Exactly the idea good sir. And for that, you need a crew of dedicated people to quickly reload the gun, perhaps, the box is a phyiscal entity you got to remove and install on the turrets' mechanical whole. Would be amazing. That would also be a trade-off with lamp-based lasers, as they take time to cooldown, OR you can have people replacing a key component to bypass the cooldown and if they are fission based lasers ,they would still need nuclear material for the fission, so a reload mechanism applies as well here. Particles cannons would also need a payload to fire. Railguns would need a slug to be placed in them, so every single of them has a gameplay aspect of reloading in it, which makes players a viable option for such jobs in a battleship and creates a trade-off with automation, as machines consume energy off your ship's power core, while players do not.

[Vyz Ejstu]

Exactly the idea good sir. And for that, you need a crew of dedicated people to quickly reload the gun, perhaps, the box is a phyiscal entity you got to remove and install on the turrets' mechanical whole. Would be amazing. That would also be a trade-off with lamp-based lasers, as they take time to cooldown, OR you can have people replacing a key component to bypass the cooldown and if they are fission based lasers ,they would still need nuclear material for the fission, so a reload mechanism applies as well here. Particles cannons would also need a payload to fire. Railguns would need a slug to be placed in them, so every single of them has a gameplay aspect of reloading in it, which makes players a viable option for such jobs in a battleship and creates a trade-off with automation, as machines consume energy off your ship's power core, while players do not.

"It's amusing chore, isn't it? Like your mother reminding you to load the 3 dishes at a time into the dishwasher, while a dozen or so guests are waiting for their lunch.

Pax Vobiscum.

"

[Anaximander]

"It's amusing chore, isn't it? Like your mother reminding you to load the 3 dishes at a time into the dishwasher, while a dozen or so guests are waiting for their lunch.

Pax Vobiscum.

"

It would make said chore a thing to be recognised for when you got a team of people who can reload your weapons at super-fast times. Nobody likes sluggers, especially if those sluggers keep your weapons running And it would make new players be able to experience battle, without feeling powerless against "higher level" players. 

[Vyz Ejstu]

A teleporter system? Sounds a bit too OP to me. And automatic loading, while practical, also makes it kind of easy to tell who can win a battle; whoever has the most ammo. I was thinking more like you've got a box of 10,000 rounds for your gatling gun, and once that empties, you've gotta press a button to insert a new one, which takes time and thus makes you vulnerable to attack. It makes combat more dynamic

 

"Hence the problem with autonomous A.I. drones. A good idea may be to instruct the drones to return to a reload station once their cache is empty. Another drone permanently/ temporarily stationed there would check the inventory of the returning drone and once contact is made/in range(as in the case of wirelessly charged laser weapons), the reload drone does its job. A function tells it to loop on the check or:

do 
{xxx;} 
while(condition);

When the statement, proves true, the reload drone stops and sends a signal to the autonomous one. A receiver function turns to true on reception of the signal/once there is no space to take anymore weapons and it goes on its way.

Pax Vobiscum.

"