Jump to content
Successor

API data export for 3rd party application development

Recommended Posts

Dear Novaquark,

 

haven't read through all the DevBlogs yet, but the idea your transporting sounds very enticing. You yourself often take EVE Online as a comparison and want to expand on the sandbox made available there. Instead of CCP providing "Citadels" to the players, in a sandbox it should be other players constructing and selling "Citadels" and many other things a creative community will come up with.

 

It will be interesting to see, how this added freedom and sandbox will play out.

 

Getting to the point of this post, again you often refer to EVE Online and the community, the market, economy, PvP to be had there.

One aspect that has helped EVE a lot is the introduction of an API, that allow to read/export game data and create applications out of game that help with the individual gameplay. The variety of such 3rd party applications has grown to a huge amount and many players use such applications/sites on a regular basis.

 

However since this API wasn't on the plan during the creation of the game, there are certain restrictions to the data available and the possibilities.

 

Thus the question, if a API/automated data export functionality is planned from the get-go, thus being available in a rudimentary form in the alpha or beta already?

And of course if you are interested in and allowing 3rd party applications to expand on the sandbox, you are creating?

 

Thanks and very interested in seeing how DU will evolve,

Successor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Novaquark,

 

haven't read through all the DevBlogs yet, but the idea your transporting sounds very enticing. You yourself often take EVE Online as a comparison and want to expand on the sandbox made available there. Instead of CCP providing "Citadels" to the players, in a sandbox it should be other players constructing and selling "Citadels" and many other things a creative community will come up with.

 

It will be interesting to see, how this added freedom and sandbox will play out.

 

Getting to the point of this post, again you often refer to EVE Online and the community, the market, economy, PvP to be had there.

One aspect that has helped EVE a lot is the introduction of an API, that allow to read/export game data and create applications out of game that help with the individual gameplay. The variety of such 3rd party applications has grown to a huge amount and many players use such applications/sites on a regular basis.

 

However since this API wasn't on the plan during the creation of the game, there are certain restrictions to the data available and the possibilities.

 

Thus the question, if a API/automated data export functionality is planned from the get-go, thus being available in a rudimentary form in the alpha or beta already?

And of course if you are interested in and allowing 3rd party applications to expand on the sandbox, you are creating?

 

Thanks and very interested in seeing how DU will evolve,

Successor

An API release does sound interested and exciting! I would love to mess around and create some automated applications to do stuff that's, well, I can't reveal that here. However, this needs to have some context. Let me add some of my ideas.

 

For instance, in the LUA scripting, it would be nice to have an automated export of data to an external application or website. Then, you could link that data and process it into something new. For instance, you could link the data of a ship to an external application to see how long you were flying it. It's just an idea but it sounds interesting.

 

As far as getting the actual API goes, it would need to be balanced. The problem is though that it can't be balanced...

 

Think of the possibilities that this one element adds. However, it gives unfair advantages to those who can actually program. I can myself but it doesn't take away from the fact that people can gain even more advantages that others do not have. Well, there is a chance applications will start to be trades for the API management itself, but still. There is so much here that I don't think anyone can see the outcome.

 

In sort, I so love the idea of managing data and exporting it. However, I so disagree with the power one can gain by having 80 different applications running at the same time telling them every last thing that is happening on the server.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea, whenever a player sees an opportunity to -exploit- a system they will do it. Have an external API will lead to griefers that are able to manipulate the system and ruin the game for other players. And you might be thinking "well anyone can have access to this or that..."

 

Check Mortal online for recipes on alchemy... you're not gonna find specific recipes and that game has been around for 6 years. People can be very quiet about these things. If I had a API that let me know when a certain resource was being depleted by a player I could just jump into the game and gank that player and take his resources that he worked very hard and very long to get... and I get all the profit from his hard work. 

I wouldn't do that but; These are the kinds of things the Devs want to avoid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea, whenever a player sees an opportunity to -exploit- a system they will do it. Have an external API will lead to griefers that are able to manipulate the system and ruin the game for other players. And you might be thinking "well anyone can have access to this or that..."

 

I think it is obvious that an API wouldn't provide any additional information that you wouldn't be able to get in game as well. Thus of course you wouldn't be able to get the inventory, location, whatever of another player, if he/she hasn't given you explicit access to that data (see the "API key management" of EVE Online).

 

Primary focus of an API should be general, publicly known information and personal information. I can pull from the API my asset overview, but nobody else can. This should cover your fear of griefers...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

May I suggest, code blocks.

Allowing for in-game scripting is all well and good, but not for those who don't know how to code. Such as myself. I understand how coding works and I know a lot about it, but I'm still learning to actually implement my knowledge. My point is, what if there were was an option to code in blocks? That would allow less experienced coders and complete beginners to pick it up and still have all the advantages of in-game scripting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

May I suggest, code blocks.

 

Allowing for in-game scripting is all well and good, but not for those who don't know how to code. Such as myself. I understand how coding works and I know a lot about it, but I'm still learning to actually implement my knowledge. My point is, what if there were was an option to code in blocks? That would allow less experienced coders and complete beginners to pick it up and still have all the advantages of in-game scripting.

 

 

I don't think it should be geared towards absolute beginners, I think that players with those skills should be compensated ingame by other players for their work. I think that LUA is easy enough and self-expressive enough for a semi-beginner to be able to pick up as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it should be geared towards absolute beginners, I think that players with those skills should be compensated ingame by other players for their work. I think that LUA is easy enough and self-expressive enough for a semi-beginner to be able to pick up as well. 

Well, if you've got any advice/sources to help me pick up Lua, I'd appreciate them very much :)

 

I still think adding the ability to script with blocks would be useful, but perhaps I'm asking for too much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that API export would almost be necessary if you are managing a huge guild/corporation.  And let's be honest here, DU is looking for those huge groups to create that massive bits that require tons of materials.  Those large groups are going to need some mechanism for keeping track of all their assets from a far reaching area, and those assets could be radically changing on a daily basis.

 

As long as you have security for some level of local control over the information that an API can touch (for your account, location, assets, whatever) I think that would resolve the bulk of the griefing.  Yes, I am sure that at some point some ingenious idiot will figure out a way to get around that security and cause a headache, which will require someone stepping in from NQ and doing something dramatic, but hell--it's an MMO--you should just accept that it will happen sometime/somewhere  :)   The secret is having everything tight enough that the only person who will be able to find a workaround will be someone living in their parent's basement, playing 20 hours a day, peeing in a bottle, --and has the fire in their belly to try and screw the world.   Probably going the be a fairly small group to worry about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that API export would almost be necessary if you are managing a huge guild/corporation.  And let's be honest here, DU is looking for those huge groups to create that massive bits that require tons of materials.  Those large groups are going to need some mechanism for keeping track of all their assets from a far reaching area, and those assets could be radically changing on a daily basis.

 

As long as you have security for some level of local control over the information that an API can touch (for your account, location, assets, whatever) I think that would resolve the bulk of the griefing.  Yes, I am sure that at some point some ingenious idiot will figure out a way to get around that security and cause a headache, which will require someone stepping in from NQ and doing something dramatic, but hell--it's an MMO--you should just accept that it will happen sometime/somewhere   :)   The secret is having everything tight enough that the only person who will be able to find a workaround will be someone living in their parent's basement, playing 20 hours a day, peeing in a bottle, --and has the fire in their belly to try and screw the world.   Probably going the be a fairly small group to worry about.

You'd be surprised how many dedicated 11-year-olds there are .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that API export would almost be necessary if you are managing a huge guild/corporation. And let's be honest here, DU is looking for those huge groups to create that massive bits that require tons of materials. Those large groups are going to need some mechanism for keeping track of all their assets from a far reaching area, and those assets could be radically changing on a daily basis.

 

 

I can see them including these functions in the community . web site they are also making for organizations

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Releasing an API and exposing data to the community would enable the community to built the management tools they need out-of-game. Effectively it reduces the work of NovaQuark since they don't have to provide these tools. The "saved" time can be used to concentrate on the sandbox and provide a better game more quickly.

 

Of course an alliance with good coders that build tools for their alliance exclusively might have an advantage over others. But an investment of time and knowledge should give some benefit. If the benefit is overpowering, I'm sure the developers will find a way to balance it as with all other aspects of the sandbox.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would absolutely love this, especially if I can send and receive information to internal LUA programs.

 

One thing to keep in mind though is using existing trading bots in market places. Perhaps a small cooldown period on transactions, at least to prove it's humanly possible (The time it would take an in-game player to access the menu system and do another transaction), and larger cooldown on how many transactions can be done within a certain time frame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...