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Whiskey

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Personally, I hate games with designated "Starting Areas." They are infested with pirates, trolls and scammers and don't really do much to exemplify the game as a whole, often turning me off to a game by cramming me into a zone with 100 12 year old's (Need I say more?)

 

My proposal is this: The UN Built thousands of Ark Ships, right? Rather than having a planet with 10,000 new players(NP's from now on) I think it should be built so that each player gets their own planet/Ark Ship/Safe Zone.

 

They also get say 9,000 "Survivors" or "Colonists" who can then be assigned different jobs in the city that the player builds in his "Safe Zone" on the planet. (IE: Build a mine, needs 650 colonists/workers to operate at max capacity. These "Colonists" could also be assigned jobs outside of the safe zone, but would be vulnerable to attack from other players.

 

Once the player runs out of "Colonists" he/she could then gain more by either

           A) Enslaving another planets colonists who are caught working outside of the safe zone

OR

          B) Build/Craft/Buy (ing) some form of AI/Robotic Worker

Option A would be free at the risk of retaliation from the other player or runaway slaves, while B would cost but be risk free

 

I plan on adding/adjusting this idea as I get comments and probably shot down by people with this stuff called "Reason" and "Logic" :P

 

-Whiskey Out

 

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You are proposing, essentially, that there be 10,000 (which is a modest number of players) planets, or Arkships, or Secure Areas, one for every player. Well then, what happens when a new player joins? A new Arkship just magically pops up? In my humble opinion, this isn't a very viable solution :D

 

Sure there may be malicious players, but if it's PVP restricted, there's no real harm (if there is, then I'm just blindly unaware and please feel free to point anything out).

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I personally love the idea of a common starting area. It would make it so much easier for a trader to set up a ship targeted to new players.

 

I intend to establish early on where all noobs can find me easily for their first products and to buy resources in insane quantities.

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I personally love the idea of a common starting area. It would make it so much easier for a trader to set up a ship targeted to new players.

 

I intend to establish early on where all noobs can find me easily for their first products and to buy resources in insane quantities.

I think trade hubs are a great idea, but they should be player made, not pre-established. Similar to the new citadels in EVE, players build their own markets now

 

Edit: Perhaps "Beacons" could be a way to broadcast your hub, and the bigger/more upgraded the hub the farther the reach of the beacon?

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My biggest problem with this idea is that it would turn the game into an RTS. Having npc colonists that work for you from the getgo just doesn't fit the lore or other game mechanics..

Another problem is that it cuts out a big portion of the early game, where you have basically no resources and have to forge a path to the stars. 
As far as every player having their own safe zone, I think this will just break the game. Danger and aggression are what will lead people to building alliances and war machines, and if the game holds your hand thru any kind of threat from other players, no one will have any reason to build outside of their safe zones.

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My biggest problem with this idea is that it would turn the game into an RTS. Having npc colonists that work for you from the getgo just doesn't fit the lore or other game mechanics..

Another problem is that it cuts out a big portion of the early game, where you have basically no resources and have to forge a path to the stars. 

As far as every player having their own safe zone, I think this will just break the game. Danger and aggression are what will lead people to building alliances and war machines, and if the game holds your hand thru any kind of threat from other players, no one will have any reason to build outside of their safe zones.

The lore states that the ARK Ships provide full protection within a certain safe zone

 

Safe zone will be limited in size, think of a turtle shell. Sure you can stay in it but there's no use in that

 

Colonists fit the lore as it states that each ARK ship carried thousands of colonists

 

I'm not saying RTS, more like use them as a resource. You'd need to collect the things required to build a mine and such

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Hello Whiskey, many of the player made factions, good, evil, and ambiguous are planning to bring players together to jump start the game.

 

It's in the interests of many people that Alioth be a relatively peaceful place to jump start the economy, introduce newbies to the game, and to serve as recruitment fronts for the major factions. Just like you, I was very interested in the economic potential of the game, This is an old post, no need to bump it, but for your viewing pleasure you can scope it out. Im a bit embarrassed by it now days, but oh well. https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/43-a-take-on-gathering-interaction/

 

While by the nature of my faction I cannot enter into binding treaties beyond certain limited aspects, such as pacifying the tiles owned by Cinderfall on Alioth, it will be up the the member guilds of the syndicate to decide their alliances with external entities.

None the less many people here, more and more by the day, are joining onto the responsible gamer attitude. We're trying to burn out the toxic players like the inquisition on heretics. That is to say, were trying to pull this community up, together, if you see someone behaving childishly on the forums attempt to encourage positive and constructive ideas for them. When people become hostile, there is no reason to further engage them, so far even with 500+ members we have managed to avoid any significant moderation in over 4,000 posts.

 

Sorry, I strayed a little bit.

It wont be so bad as you think, the planets are quite big, the server infrastructure is proactive. Alioth may be one planet but at first, at least, there will be many servers sharing the load of players. Probably based on the hexagonal planet grid and number of players active in an area.

 

With the Command and DPU, and a bit of LUA, we should be able to make basic robotic machines. Somewhat like a Minecraft "Turtle". You could probably create a semi-automatic mining rig, they will still need human interaction though to command them. No full on AI will be possible.

 

There wont be any masses of NPC players, and even if there are Handcuffs or player restraints in the game, you will have a hard time forcing them into slave labor. If you kill them, they will just spawn at a Resurrection Node.

 

Also, it will be possible to "Arkify" a limited number of player territories, for a number of reasons. To provide a temporary respite from attackers, to slow down an overwhelming enemy advance, and to create miniature safe-er zones than out in the wilds. Many people here will be willing and eager to work with you, no need for a AI slave army. well except it is kind of cool.

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The lore states that the ARK Ships provide full protection within a certain safe zone

 

Safe zone will be limited in size, think of a turtle shell. Sure you can stay in it but there's no use in that

 

Colonists fit the lore as it states that each ARK ship carried thousands of colonists

 

I'm not saying RTS, more like use them as a resource. You'd need to collect the things required to build a mine and such

Well using them as a resource sounds pretty RTS to me. 

In the lore you ARE one of those thousands of colonists. Arbitrarily having command over them seems just that to me: arbitrary.

A safe zone for new players starting out is obviously needed, what I am opposed to is each player having their OWN, private safe zone.

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Well using them as a resource sounds pretty RTS to me.

In the lore you ARE one of those thousands of colonists. Arbitrarily having command over them seems just that to me: arbitrary.

A safe zone for new players starting out is obviously needed, what I am opposed to is each player having their OWN, private safe zone.

I've been watching this conversation as well. In the lore, it was stated that at least over one hundred were transported on one ship. As well, concepts involving a personal ark pod are very impractical, regarding the lore and actual thought. If each person were to have their own ship, it would be inefficient. It would make more sense to have one massive carrier. This is the way all transportation is. It can be seen with public road systems as well.

 

If you look at traffic, traffic jams are caused by inefficiencies. These can be traced back to a large bumber of people using their own car. Therefor, buses that carry large numbers of people are more efficient. By this logic, there should be minimal arkships.

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I think there should be multiple safe zones, maybe 4 at most, make them all trade hubs and new player zones. But each new player should start with a small craft that can get them to a safe area outside safe zones because there will be a lot of people outside the starting zones waiting.

 

Another idea is to have players start in a random area outside the safe zones so people cant camp them.

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I think there should be multiple safe zones, maybe 4 at most, make them all trade hubs and new player zones. But each new player should start with a small craft that can get them to a safe area outside safe zones because there will be a lot of people outside the starting zones waiting.

 

Another idea is to have players start in a random area outside the safe zones so people cant camp them.

This is good but I am still buggered by the idea of this being like EVE where new players get instakilled by pirates and trolls (F*** CODE)

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While I could agree with maybe at most 4 safe areas. Im also highly intrigued by what is going to happen to this starting area as time progresses. I forsee that a lot of players are going to want to go explore and be very gung ho. Some of the organizations and corps are gonna go hunt for their home system. While there may be some scammers and dastardly players I don't think its going to affect the overall game. But im excited to see this area go from some single room "huts" to a sprawling neutral trade city and recruitment area for the organizations and corps of DU

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Storywise there have been quite some arkships leaving the old earth so it does not make much sense to only have one starting planet. Loadbalancing will be a topic when the game is successful and hundreds of thousands of players crowd the starting areas. Why not creating several arkplanets? Name them, let the players choose to be sure they are near their friends and get them run several colonist communities. This might prove interesting, when they encounter each other. Will they mix, befriend or fight each other? Perhaps you might even seperate different languages at the starting position.

 

This might create something like different nations/cultures etc. Might be interesting technically and for gameplay/immersion issues. B)

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Personally, I hate games with designated "Starting Areas." They are infested with pirates, trolls and scammers and don't really do much to exemplify the game as a whole, often turning me off to a game by cramming me into a zone with 100 12 year old's (Need I say more?)

 

My proposal is this: The UN Built thousands of Ark Ships, right? Rather than having a planet with 10,000 new players(NP's from now on) I think it should be built so that each player gets their own planet/Ark Ship/Safe Zone.

 

They also get say 9,000 "Survivors" or "Colonists" who can then be assigned different jobs in the city that the player builds in his "Safe Zone" on the planet. (IE: Build a mine, needs 650 colonists/workers to operate at max capacity. These "Colonists" could also be assigned jobs outside of the safe zone, but would be vulnerable to attack from other players.

 

Once the player runs out of "Colonists" he/she could then gain more by either

           A) Enslaving another planets colonists who are caught working outside of the safe zone

OR

          B) Build/Craft/Buy (ing) some form of AI/Robotic Worker

Option A would be free at the risk of retaliation from the other player or runaway slaves, while B would cost but be risk free

 

I plan on adding/adjusting this idea as I get comments and probably shot down by people with this stuff called "Reason" and "Logic" :P

 

-Whiskey Out

 

I understand your reasoning behind this, as I have 16+ years of experience playing MMO's and have certainly grown tired of dealing with problem players that bring very little to the game. Personally though, I do not feel that your suggestion would fit well within this sort of game, as part of playing an MMO is being immersed in a world with thousands of other players and personalities. It is an interesting concept to propose though, so kudos for trying to think outside the box. I don't think it really brings RTS playstyles into the game, but as some mentioned each person having their own starting planet would make many things like bringing your organization's people together much tougher.

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Storywise there have been quite some arkships leaving the old earth so it does not make much sense to only have one starting planet. Loadbalancing will be a topic when the game is successful and hundreds of thousands of players crowd the starting areas. Why not creating several arkplanets? Name them, let the players choose to be sure they are near their friends and get them run several colonist communities. This might prove interesting, when they encounter each other. Will they mix, befriend or fight each other? Perhaps you might even seperate different languages at the starting position.

 

This might create something like different nations/cultures etc. Might be interesting technically and for gameplay/immersion issues. B)

I think at this point its to early to say exactly how they are going to do it. but I think a lot of it will depend on how well they tackle the seemless single shard servers. I can see them maybe later adding more ark ships. I think we will find out more once the kickstarter gets up and going and they have an idea of how many people are going to be playing right off the bat

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These "Colonists" could also be assigned jobs outside of the safe zone, but would be vulnerable to attack from other players.

I think that starting off, when you have limited resources, getting small jobs to earn cash to save up for your first ship upgrades/weapons/scanners/cargo-enlargement should be a relatively easy thing to do.

 

This may sound a bit crazy but i think it would be an awesome way to introduce players to thew scale and action of the game:

 

"Droids" (kinda thing)

 

So you can go into cryro sleep in the arkship and inhabit "droids"

This thread is no place to examine this idea in full but for example consider capital ship turrets.

The larger ones could have hundreds of turrets which could never be filled by organization members efficiently

Now we all know that a thinking human being is often for better than an AI in most turret scenarios (except twitch based missile point defense ect) so why not let players remotely take over turrets?

What and why:

  • Owners of large ships can have these special upgrades that allows a player to remotely control them
  • The ship owner can set payment by minute, enemy damage or kills ect
  • Those in cryro ship can see the offers pop up and virtually "hop" into the turret
  • The turret controller who is probably a new player will easily get to see and feel part of the battles that go on
  • Would off course be possible to turn off when not fighting and ai would take over when no one accepts the position

i just think this would be great for players who are starting off to not only get to see and participate in the most awesome parts of the game but skip the normal small trade grinding that is so commonly the only option for players with weak starting ships in other games.

 

I could make a new idea thread for this if anyone is interested, i have far more to add on this concept (FPS combat?)

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What I hate in MMOs is the starting zones that you pass through and never return to... have no later use for.  I've tried lots of MMOs that are like this and I don't stay with them very long... I believe this is the WoW style.

 

There are 2 MMOs that have used a different system which I like.  Final Fantasy 11 and 14.  In these you start in a town.  You wander around town for a bit talking to people... learning the lore and game systems... then you head outside to fight.  The town is your home base which you always return to... where the shops are... market... where your player house and storage are... where the class trainers are... always useful and used.  Then the areas outside have difficulties ever increasing as you get further and further from town... but in low level areas there are entrances to "secret" high level plot related areas as well.  So you always have a mix of low and high level players traveling back and forth doing their thing side by side.

 

Now neither system really fits a game such as this...  But the second system is more of a fit I think.  If you can colonize worlds... the devs could take such worlds which have reached a certain level of development and make them safe zones... where new players could arrive in.  Then the rules against pvp and such could get more and more lax as you get further and further away from such a world.  Until you're in wild space where anyone could gank you but also the resources haven't been picked clean yet.  Oh and I think the transforming of a player colony into a safe zone should be an opt in type thing so it's only done if the player or guild of players in charge of a colony wants it done.  Up til then they could be responsible for making and enforcing their own rules.

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The problem with one main hub that everyone spawns at is that it's like starting in a crime infested metropolitan city where everyone with knowledge takes advantage of everyone who doesn't. Because of that I'm more in favor of scattered spawns with temporary safe zones that deactivate after a certain time period and then set up beacons to contact the civilized world again. It would be far more gentle on newer players joining the game while fitting in with lore. It also gives that group of players time to form their own little community before getting thrust into the universe with nothing but the basics. The mechanics behind this would ensure that such spawns would only happen at a specified distance from the majority of players. 

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The problem with one main hub that everyone spawns at is that it's like starting in a crime infested metropolitan city where everyone with knowledge takes advantage of everyone who doesn't. Because of that I'm more in favor of scattered spawns with temporary safe zones that deactivate after a certain time period and then set up beacons to contact the civilized world again. It would be far more gentle on newer players joining the game while fitting in with lore. It also gives that group of players time to form their own little community before getting thrust into the universe with nothing but the basics. The mechanics behind this would ensure that such spawns would only happen at a specified distance from the majority of players. 

 

indeed I don't think there should be 1 starting "city"  FF11 and 14 both have 3 starting cities which also provides some faction loyalty.  In Dual there could be a large number.

 

If you had a way for old starting worlds which have been depopulated as people moved on to new worlds to cease being starter worlds and decay back to wild world... perhaps now with ruins of the past civilization... and player drive creation of new starter worlds... that would ensure new players are always popping into the area where the action they crave is.

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I was thinking that the 4 or so starting safe zones are places the people before you built. The arkship would have woken many people before you (the player) and who said these people didnt make small factions and safe zones for their command centers. You can even make it like EVE where the safe zones arent really safe zones but guarded zones where if you attack someone you will be targeted by turrets or something to protect the zone. I just dont want a situation where the player joins the game for the first time with nothing on them and the moment they walk outside the shield they are targeted by an spawn killing organization.

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The game lore states that we are the first ones to be awaken

But i agree with your opinion we should avoid spawnkilling at all cost

And to do that the spawn hub becomes obsolete. I think the only way spawn killing can really be avoided is by avoiding the spawn killers themselves. This could be accomplished in a few ways, mine below being an example of how it might work.

 

One way is the one I suggested, making ark ships spawn a set distance away from the central cluster of players and then allowing a community of newly joined players to pop up around that ark ship. These ships would come with onboard tutorials for the new players to start up a community and learn the game. The ship would also include information for these new players pointing them in the direction of society and the current status of said society such as how much warfare is going on between factions in certain areas and other useful information. This would allow the new players to explore the game at their own pace without having an immediate fear of stepping outside the protection of the ark ship.

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I was thinking that the 4 or so starting safe zones are places the people before you built. The arkship would have woken many people before you (the player) and who said these people didnt make small factions and safe zones for their command centers. You can even make it like EVE where the safe zones arent really safe zones but guarded zones where if you attack someone you will be targeted by turrets or something to protect the zone. I just dont want a situation where the player joins the game for the first time with nothing on them and the moment they walk outside the shield they are targeted by an spawn killing organization.

the devs are setting up a bubble that is 20km in radius. so that allows for a fairly big area of a safe zone. it would be possible for the most part to make money or use the generic blue prints you start with to make a ship without leaving the safe zone. i still for see any start zone becoming a neutral trade city. and i hope that organizations will go and recruit new players and bring them into the fold. while this may not be good for some organizations i think this would be very beneficial for most though as it bolsters your number and gives new players a place to learn and grow

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