A thought about organization war & pvp

[Aaron Cain]

Maybe its a good idea to go back to the kickstarter originals. Finish all the stuff thats bugged first, then implement the actual roadmap as provided a long time ago, reshape stuff to actually match kickstarter ideas and when that is all finish and there is no discrepancy anymore between the promised features everyone backed the game for, the added roadmap and the actual game, maybe then fine tune?

 

There are a few ways to do things on a larger scale that in general come to 2 options: 1, develop a creative plausible solution to make something work and keep freedom intact. 2, add restrictions or taxes to restrict on use.

The first of the two ways requires skilled professionals, the other one is a simple solution because you have no fracking idea how to do the first one. In general governments go for option 2

[DuskLight]

"Civilization IV designers Soren Johnson and Sid Meier, who said, respectively: ” given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game,” and that, therefore, “one of the responsibilities of designers is to protect the player from themselves.” -article from The Gamer by Chloe Prince, Mar 24, 2020

NQ has a very complicated design question to answer. How do you balance pvp and confidence in the market and give players what they need instead of what they want?
-Other games solved the issue by implementing permanent bots and it made the market feel artificial. This is something NQ already stated that they won't do and I commend them for that.  
-War exhaustion is a real life psychological phenomenon and it happens to all of us and individually.
-We will get tired of fighting and every now and then, we will want a break from war.
-What about our builders who don't want to fight?
-War is expensive and needs stable markets
-We need incentive for community and a relative sense of peace. Emphasis on relative. 
NQ has a real challenge on their hands. 

[XKentX]

18 hours ago, blazemonger said:

The whole concept of combat in DU is geared towards resolving conflict more than raging troops of aggressors and it will be both costly and hard to achieve as well as required more than a few pirates or a loose band of brothers to make it work. Also at every step, the mechanic will favor the defenders over the attackers.

That is a good way to kill a game.

 

"costly and hard to achieve" to make it work ? That's bluedonut carebear wet dreams that later cry that they are outblobed by another nap train and blueball to "save resources" and deprive all members of space pixels explosions. That's BORING. People get tired of it.

 

Small groups should not be able to capture the galaxy but should be able to make themselves feared, be able to inflict damage in guerrilla warfare, be able to out-maneuver and bite chunks of large less maneuverable organization. That's FUN. That's what people get excited about.

 

Building a "large costly" war machine to fight with ? You will lose it in first fight as you have no idea how to use it and then regequit blaming bad PVP implementation.

 

[Aaron Cain]

Nice discussion. If i read it all i get the feeling most people think that PvP and Non-PvP as it is now or as it is intended to be implemented both suck.

 

Well, ill just go back to my previous statement, first fix stuff already broken, then go back to kickstarter ideals and from that point just follow the previously known roadmap. If DU works from the bottom up PVP will be the easiest thing to fix. But at the moment there are more then enough issues with the bottom.

 

 

[Towakin]

To be honest the one and only thing needed is incentives. PVP planets with favorable gravity, atmo and a 5x higher density of rare ores, or the asteroids they talked about. Then you got pvp. If there's any demand for ores left after the last blunder of a patch that is. Then we need to pray they will be able to build a working pvp system, which I have little hope for seeing as they just replaced one broken system (designwise) they built earlier by a broken system (designwise) they built later and the insane number of bugs are still not fixed.

[GraXXoR]

On 12/27/2020 at 3:30 AM, DuskLight said:

pvp is fun and all. My concern is maintaining a stable economy in a complete anarchy. It's never worked before, what would make it work now? I'm curious.

People always compare DU to Eve, forgetting that EVE actually has a functioning security and NPC policing system. DU would be like Eve without even a pretense of security and controlling. 

 

DU will likely end up complete pandemonium and anarchy once all out PVP takes hold.

[Aaron Cain]

1 hour ago, Towakin said:

To be honest the one and only thing needed is incentives. PVP planets with favorable gravity, atmo and a 5x higher density of rare ores, or the asteroids they talked about. Then you got pvp. If there's any demand for ores left after the last blunder of a patch that is. Then we need to pray they will be able to build a working pvp system, which I have little hope for seeing as they just replaced one broken system (designwise) they built earlier by a broken system (designwise) they built later and the insane number of bugs are still not fixed.

They specially said industry should only be on statics for PVP incentive if i remember correct, later we got more updates/restrictions for PVP incentive. But well, these things wont work at all since nobody counts the kills you make, there is no Honor list, there is only anonimous kills, you dont even get a red name for killing alot. So hardcore PvP players will not get any recognition for their kills or skills. add anyform of incent and it might help to drive people away or will give need to wars but not a single incent to the scoreboard killers that apparently PvP is made for.  General and casual players will not go to pvp in their ships for a better mining spot ifthere are plenty around. Mining orgs will not go full PvP as its not their business, so only some organizations will maybe fight for a planet but probably just announce a planet is theirs and not a single shot is needed.

 

If you really want alot of PvP think by yourself, Is the present DU going to give that? What does war cost? alot of materials and a vast industry. What is restricted in DU behind a quanta wall? Industry, What is a grind most people dont want to take? Mining.

So the only needed incent to boost actual shooting is make the ships to shoot with cheap so its viable to loose it, make mass production of fighter craft plausible.

 

and ass Graxxor said, DU in this form will in the end be anarchy and only the strong will survive with an army of minions and slaves.

[Bobbie]

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[Towakin]

2 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:

They specially said industry should only be on statics for PVP incentive if i remember correct, later we got more updates/restrictions for PVP incentive. But well, these things wont work at all since nobody counts the kills you make, there is no Honor list, there is only anonimous kills, you dont even get a red name for killing alot. So hardcore PvP players will not get any recognition for their kills or skills. add anyform of incent and it might help to drive people away or will give need to wars but not a single incent to the scoreboard killers that apparently PvP is made for.  General and casual players will not go to pvp in their ships for a better mining spot ifthere are plenty around. Mining orgs will not go full PvP as its not their business, so only some organizations will maybe fight for a planet but probably just announce a planet is theirs and not a single shot is needed..

First part shows they know nothing about pvp mmo development. Having to defend your industry bc there is pvp on alioth will just be a total shitshow. Best case everyone retreats to sanc, worst case the game just dies there and only 10 trolls will be left.

 

The second part shows you know nothing either. Scoreboards, red names, ugh yeah go ahead take the most fail ideas ever, which were shit in other games that did them. This is an mmo, in the end people play for resources, that has to be the incentive, nothing else really matters. Fame comes automatically don't worry I know these things. Also your predictions are just pulled out of your *** and are so far off they should never have emerged from that place.

 

I gave you the answer to how to get people interested in pvp, so don't come with crap please. Nothing you ever do will get the casual to engage in pvp, but high rewards leads people to take high risk, fuels an economy where people can reasonably be paid to protect and keep the peace, and others to try get a piece of someone elses cake. Which was the idea of this game in the first place as understood in the past, but who knows, maybe JC comes up with another great iPhone epiphany and now thinks it should be the US vs the Chinese military and everyone else should be limited to xs weapons 'cuz that's like in real life trololo. 

The one thing you were not all wrong about is cost of ships, which is basically the "lever" for how much pvp there is going to be, and it should be somewhere where you don't just yolo your ships away, but where you're also not too scared to take your shiny toy out to play.