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Oh no all of the buildings are lopsided (continue reading)


Galvius Orion
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I just noticed something, something very, very, very, bad. Likely to be the spookiest thing I have seen this Halloween and is indeed the scariest thing I have seen today. Today I placed down L core for who knows what time, I then measured the sides, then I noticed something horrible, for those you have basing off of the 2x2 cross section of the L core for your constructs, this is disastrous, for I have discovered that the length of each side is 511 blocks which if you are counting is not an even number. This horrific revelation means that a large number of L core constructs are off center, and that the L core it self is off center mean for those of you who like your builds to be symmetrical they are not, horrifying I know. Nova Quark please fix this grievous error as to prevent others from suffering the same fate as we all have in our unfortunate existence. Thank you for your time and may your Halloween be better than mine as now I need to fix everything.

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If you do the sensible thing and do one (long) half first  and then copy paste, then your ship will be symmetrical anyway.  Just move the core if the mild asymmetry is driving you crazy (making sure the arrow remains top and pointing forward).

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8 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

This is referred to as the N-1 bug, and has been there since day one. And according to NQ it is unfixable because of some technical limitation in their voxel implementation.

Which, much like the "glass voxels are too hard to implement", I don't buy for a second.  If they can make a 255³ build area, and a 511³ build area, then can make one that's 256³ or 512³.

 

And before the JC groupies show up, this has nothing to do with them using dual contouring on their voxels.  Dual contouring refers to how the system calculates the surfaces of the voxels.  It's a difficult method to implement, and still hasn't been perfected, which is why we see so many odd behaviours with voxels.  Dual contouring has zero to do with the application of textures (voxel glass) or how much build space can be allocated (cores).

 

From what I've seen of NQ's work thus far, I suspect the real reason is, "we don't have a quick and easy way to do that, and we don't feel like putting in the effort, so we're just going to say it's too difficult/impossible."

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Ah, the old N-1 hiccup probably caused by 2s complement signed binary often has this issue.


Whenever I build, the first thing I do is create a temporary frame that takes account of the discrepancy... I usually build the frame 1m or 2m smaller than the cube anyway (or more on an L cube) because you can guarantee that a year or two later you'll want to add an external light, an extruded logo or a deck with a plant pot on it. 

When I do that, I always build a single row of voxels to the edge then delete 4 or 8 voxels on the "even" sides and 3 or 7 voxels on the "odd" side. The edges should then all line up with the 1m thicker guide markers. 

Doing this tends to prevent nasty surprises two weeks into your build.

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1 hour ago, Teufelaffe said:

From what I've seen of NQ's work thus far, I suspect the real reason is, "we don't have a quick and easy way to do that, and we don't feel like putting in the effort, so we're just going to say it's too difficult/impossible."

 

Do you think they're all just sitting around the office doing nothing all day?

 

They literally have years more work to do on the game.  I would love to see them fix everything, but what do you want them to push back in order to work on this instead?

 

What do you think might be more beneficial to the game, Avatar vs Avatar PVP, or 256 voxel L cores?

 

I could make a list that takes up the rest of this page of things i would rather see them working on.

 

 

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.. and the huge stinking pile of technical debt just keeps growing. The problem with not fixing issues at the core of the game as early as possible, is that they get harder and harder to fix with time as you pile more and more functionality on top.

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14 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:

 

Do you think they're all just sitting around the office doing nothing all day?

 

They literally have years more work to do on the game.  I would love to see them fix everything, but what do you want them to push back in order to work on this instead?

 

What do you think might be more beneficial to the game, Avatar vs Avatar PVP, or 256 voxel L cores?

 

I could make a list that takes up the rest of this page of things i would rather see them working on.

 

 

Not sure you got the idea that I wanted them to push this to the top of the list or that I think they're not doing work.  I know how software development works, and I know that "I really don't feel like dealing with that right now and it's not on the roadmap, so I'm going to say it's too difficult or impossible to implement" is something that every professional programmer on Earth has done at some point.  For example, Blizzard insisted for years that it would never be possible for them to increase the size of a player's starting backpack in WoW above the initial 16 slots due to how they originally coded it.  Yet, a couple years ago they started offering an automatic upgrade to the size of your starting backpack above 16 slots if you enabled two-factor auth on your Blizz account.  It wasn't impossible, they just didn't want to deal with it at the time, and saying it wasn't possible got players to (mostly) shut up about it.

 

NQ may eventually give us glass voxels or fix the N-1 issue, or they may not, but that doesn't change the fact that their "it's too difficult/impossible" response to those things is almost assuredly BS and is just them trying to get people to stop bringing those things up.  Any time a coder tells you that something is impossible "because of the way we initially coded it", they're blowing smoke up your ass.  That's dev speak for "that's more work than I want to deal with right now on top of everything else, the issue isn't a show stopper or even that big of a deal, and if I tell you it can't be done maybe you'll shut up about it."  The dev teams I've worked on have used "it's not possible" for requests that they felt were a waste of time or were for issues/features insignificant enough that they could be relegated to the "maybe we'll look at that after we've finished everything else" bin.  I'd say glass voxels and the N-1 issue qualify; the glass is a relatively small feature that confers no additional gameplay, and the N-1 issue is something only a small number of players is going to care about.

 

My issue with NQ's response on these things is that they don't need to bullshit us like we're some clueless executive from upper-management who needs to be placated so they'll go away and leave the team alone.  They can literally just say, "that's not something we want to spend development time on right now. We're focusing on more important things and may revisit those later" and much of their player base would be fine with that.

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