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Busterguy

When will the space safe zone be removed?

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46 minutes ago, Elrood said:

Wow, thats a lot of assumptions. A lot of those opposite to my assumptions. Especially that JC stated that those are only possibilities, not 100% sure it will be this way. Well, we will see. 

Did you watch the interview.  I dont make assumptions about those things, I just point on what JC and the devs say. And have been saying since I found this game over 2 years ago. And I backed this game precisely on those game mechanics they pitched to us that would be in the released version.

 

I dont know if it's on the main page, but the players only really spent maybe 3million backing this game.  Someone can correct me if I'm off too far on that figure.  But I'd definitely argue the majority who gave NQ money had some idea what game it was that they were developing. People didn't just blindly throw money at NQ especially as the majority talk was most people didnt want to back a game in alpha under NDA. Those that did, did sufficient research about what game was being made, and decided their money was worth investing. 

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2 hours ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Good thing its just your opinion.  Devs already stated everywhere outside the safe zones is pvp zone. And they will be implementing some sort of territory warfare that will surely come with it's own rules and mechanics (they have talked about favoring the defender).  And recent interview JC said safe zone is gonna be sanc moon + alioth at best.  That's the way its gonna be and a VAST majority want that. People who dont are a vocal minority, and didnt research the game they are playing. The forums are already a minorityEveryone I know in game doesn't even visit the forums

I highlighted your assumptions for you. The only one I'm relatively confident you are qualified to state is last one. Cheers. 

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44 minutes ago, Elrood said:

Fair enough, we will have to agree to disagree on that one.

So let me get this straight. You know better than the devs, and for the game to not go bankrupt they must change the fundamentals core gameplay of their game and what its supposed to be? I can quote you cause thats what you are saying. 

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12 hours ago, Elrood said:

Imho, all space is full pvp it will be bankruptcy in few weeks top for most of players in small corporation = no fun. Than bigger corporations will go = no fun. Than we will end up with few megacorps which will get bored in few more weeks later and leave. At least thats how it goes in most all world pvp server for survival games I know. Other makes periodic restarts to level playfield.  Maybe, just maybe scale effect will change stuff here.... but I don't think so. 

Ah, not to mention that anything not meta will die. So no nice looking ships at all. For any reason. 
Again no fun. But if you are right, lets hope i'm mistaken. 

So you know exactly what's going to happen huh? The devs should hire you. You will bring them untold fortunes recreating the game so 10million people sub.

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13 hours ago, Elrood said:

Imho, all space is full pvp it will be bankruptcy in few weeks top for most of players in small corporation = no fun. Than bigger corporations will go = no fun. Than we will end up with few megacorps which will get bored in few more weeks later and leave. At least thats how it goes in most all world pvp server for survival games I know.

This IS NOT a survival game, can you find anything anywhere which presents this as a 'survival' game.  It is a civilisation building game, which is completely different.  Players that play it like a survival game WILL struggle, those that buy into the concept of civilisation shouldnt have an issue. 

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1 hour ago, JohnnyTazer said:

So let me get this straight. You know better than the devs, and for the game to not go bankrupt they must change the fundamentals core gameplay of their game and what its supposed to be? I can quote you cause thats what you are saying. 

Core and fundamental part of current gameplay is safe zone. Thats a fact. It exist. It is utilized. So removing it will drastically change how the game is played. 
Thats one thing. If anything I'm advocating against such fundamental change. 
Now that thats said - I don't know. I have an opinion. Not sure how informed that opinion is. 

For me its simple, without safe zone containing tier 1 and 2 ores, zone which can be mined with impunity - less than good in pvp player will get bankrupt. By bankrupt i mean that hey had enough on the trot fails in mining expeditions that they won't have a way to recover without mining surface rocks - and as far as i know they are not infinitely respwanable - i manage to clear 1/5 of my sanct tile out of them and seen rumors of people who cleared whole sanctuary tiles. That will be no fun and they will go to play other games which are easier. And if i'm talking about less than good pvp players, imho i'm talking about most of the players. Which leaves only gankers and pirates who will be able to sustain themselves until their victims leave. Than they have no victims other than gankers and we have natural selection yet again. And player base will shrink. 
But as i already said - its just an opinion. Based on experience because I've seen it happen, i will see it happen again, but I DO NOT KNOW if DU will end up this way. I only worry it will be the case. 

There is more of course - I'm worry about economy - because right now IMHO its broken as hell with no sink for elements - which will forever drive price down (so industrialist game play is becoming less and less viable and miner is less needed). The only industry anyone will need in few months will probably be scrap, honeycomb and fuel production. Everything else will be waste of money. Voxelmancy and "nice ship design" will go to craper too because only efficiency will allow for sustainability in the game. Only efficient ships will sell, which means only meta ships will sell. All that lead me to believe that without some safe space with enough gameplay in such safe space, this game will be nothing more than rust in space with a bit more complicated mechanics and the longest turnaround after wipe out by raid/string of mishap, etc,  of all rust style games. A very very specific niche small scale instead of a massive multiplayer game.

But that's just an opinion. I don't know any better than devs - i will know what happens when it happens.

Besides - if all alpha players knew what they were up to - we wouldn't have voxelmancy or all those nice ships. We would have whole fleets of borg cubes fighting all over the pvp space. Because no way in hell i will believe that alpha testers who knew the game and didn't figure out meta by the time beta released, right? And they would go straight to the fun part of game right? Hmmm, they did. Its not fighting or building efficient ships. Or is it?
I also believe that a sizable, if not majority, group of people would be very surprised of how the game would play with only sanct moon and a bit of alioth as safe zone only. With enough pvpers happy to block Alioth and Sanct moon - said group will be up to quite a shocking awaking. But i hope i'm mistaken.... 

 

52 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

This IS NOT a survival game, can you find anything anywhere which presents this as a 'survival' game.  It is a civilisation building game, which is completely different.  Players that play it like a survival game WILL struggle, those that buy into the concept of civilisation shouldnt have an issue. 

I in general agree with you. My worry is that civilization need sustainability and numbers. Take one away and it will collapse.
If sustainability is boring as hell - than players leave. If there is no sustainability for players, they will leave. Enough of them leave and you do not have civilization. 
To sum up @Moosegun , right now i believe that sustainability is at very big risk without safe zone. I completely acknowledge that it may work itself out. I just very much doubt it. 
Edit: hmm, @Moosegun
you actually made me think about it a bit differently. I would sum my worries up this way - I do worry that this game will degrade to survival and than it will be struggle for everyone.

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What is currently happening is that there are a lot of people who are PVP oriented who are just ganking. They are in the game for one reason only; to kill other players. They are not interested in creating content, in having great fights, they just want to find a target, shoot and kil it and move on.. If they get the impression the target will actually come prepared and ready to fight, they run away. I have seen several of these instances now and it is these players that cause the concern and the unhappy feeling with those who do not want to be engaged.

 

On the other hand, I see the ones who are genuinely PVP oriented and I believe would not run away from a fight but actually want and take it defend the gankers (because they feel "their" gameplay of choice is attacked) which results in skewed opinions of each other in the process.

 

At the same time, NQ is very clearly not focusing on PVP as what the game revolves around, it is part of the game and it is something you need to account for and expect. If however PVP turns out to be groups of players randomly roaming and destroying what  others create with no reason but that they are able to do so, DU will become a wasteland, those that stay will go underground, the surface will be empty and lifeless which is what NQ does not want.  NQ has said they will create territory warfare in a way that it favors the defenders and we already know that TU wil be pivotal in that. There is more than enough known now to start preparing your base/city/community for the coming of TW and if you don't well, that is on you then.

 

In space there will always be skirmishes and small scale combat, just like in EVE those events will hardly dent the overal game evolvement and are just a part of everyday life in DU. NQ needs to bring in mechanics that allow non combatant players to minimize the risk which means (E)CM like jammers and radar lock breaker, maybe even voxel material with stealth-like properties making it much harder to get a lock in the first place.

 

And yes, NQ wil need to run several balance passes on weapons as they are currently way overpowered. At the same time radar needs to give more detail, if PVP players see a target is "just" a shuttle it becomes less of a target, now they make the effort to approach and engage and have no idea what they are attacking really outside of core size. So the choice is to just engage anyway and see what happens, if there is more information they can make the choice whether or not to engage in the first place.

Removing PVP from the game would be bad, it will make the game stale and one sided. Having way overpowered PVP does the exact same thing. Having a game just for builders will not bring in the revenue NQ needs, having a game where PVP is dominant would do the same. NQ will need to balance these two sides and they will need to do so in the next 6-8 months probably at least to the point where the way forward becomes clear. Right now it is way too early to really draw any conclusions as NQ is still busy fighting fires on their backend servers and they can only really progress once they have that stabilized.

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1 hour ago, Busterguy said:

im just going to leave this here.
image.png.11efd740a37387c6cf038977322c0002.png

And that is the problem. The communication. That is a very ambiguous statement. If it is just the sanctuary moon and the area around the ark, then its more like "Don't want PvP? Don't worry you will be bored to death in no time." The Game should advertise itself as a PvP game and cut the BS.

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Just now, FryingDoom said:

And that is the problem. The communication. That is a very ambiguous statement. If it is just the sanctuary moon and the area around the ark, then its more like "Don't want PvP? Don't worry you will be bored to death in no time. The Game should advertise itself as a PvP game and cut the BS.

Or perhaps you should both wait and see, from the livestream the other day JC REITERATED that pvp will favour the defenders and that it will be difficult to attack planet territories, he also made it clear that there will be a LOT of bonuses for owning a lot of tiles in the same location, suggesting that interior tiles of a large claimed areas would even be totally immune from attack unless exterior tiles are defeated first, showing AGAIN that they are looking for planetary pvp to be more than just bullshit offline raiding that you see in 'survival game', much more considered.  Pretty clear to me that they want to give us all the tools we need to defend ourselves, or at least those of us who are working together to build civilisation.  All those solos, running off to hide in the hills to be 'self sufficient' yeah they are pretty screwed lol.

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