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CRYSTAL BANK OF HELIOS
Greetings! I am Crystal Emperor, CEO of Crystal Corporation.
We are looking for active players to help us open first ever bank in dual universe the CRYSTAL BANK OF HELIOS.
Our organisation is very young, so you can climb our organisational hierarchy pretty easily atm. 

 

OUR BUSINESS MODEL
Our business model is very simple.We will have branches on different planet across helios system.
Miners and players can deposit ores into any branch and withdraw ores from any branch.
Hence they would not need to worry about getting looted by pirates and enemy orgs after mining expeditions.
We will charge certain percentage of ore as processing fee at the time of deposit.

 

WHAT ROLES YOU CAN PLAY IN CRYSTAL BANK
You can become Branch Manager, Branch Cashier, Security Gaurd,  Building designers, Recruiter,  Customer Care etc.

 

==>>If we intrigued you enough then JOIN OUR DISCORD TO APPLY TODAY : https://discord.gg/xavm9nr <<==

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As said in discord I will here too:

 

I really think that this is the way to go. People don't know you and most never will, so building trust is hard. And even IF you manage it then there's always the problem of alts in this game and you could play the long haul and scam ppl after 5 years for good because you want to. 

 

Demanding that collateral helps customers to feel safe and immensly helps you building trust

 

I definitely see this bank being useful that way when you just want to avoid having to transport some rare ore from A to B

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When there is collateral it is meaningless/nonsense to worry about scam and to look trustworhty people. There is no trustworthy people, there wasn't, and there won't. @CrystalEmperor's system of banking is an original/unique free-market idea and can be useful for all Noveans. The free-market economy, as complex as the system appears  to be on the surface, is yet nothing more than a vast network of voluntary and mutually agreed upon two-person or two-party exchanges of property titles by the support of collateral as an insurance for the buyer.

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14 hours ago, rothbardian said:

When there is collateral it is meaningless/nonsense to worry about scam and to look trustworhty people.

Here is the problem: when a player barters something for something equivalent, it's like exchanging $100 worth of value for the same value. It is not a deposit but a barter for the same value, or a transaction (if quanta is involved) for the same value, only to literally get the same thing in return. The system doesn't work if there is no deposit process -- "deposit" is a transfer of money or physical asset (if that is what you want) to an institution, get a collateral involved and that is not a "transfer".

 

On 4/30/2020 at 12:20 AM, Lethys said:

How can I be certain that you don't scam me and run with everything I deposit?

This is a possible implication of a banking service such as this, thus organizations that want to run a bank need to invent a solution to gain the confidence of potential clients because this is too risky for them.

 

Commercial banks in real-life are regulated anyway. There are so many government organizations in this game and yet they lack purpose! Why can't they accept registry of these private banks and regulate them? Private banks can register themselves under the jurisdiction of the government in order to operate in that country, thus they will be subject to it's regulations, then private banks can practice what is called a "fractional-reserve banking". Here is how it works: private banks need to deposit quantas to their balance on the central bank (a "central bank" is a government institution). This money is the private bank's "reserve" currently held by the central bank. What is this "reserve"? This reserve is how much liquid asset the private bank is allowed to hold, in other words this is how much total deposit they can accept from clients according to the regulation. When this private bank defaults, clients can dispute their quantas with the central bank which holds the private bank's reserve. If this government turns out as a fraud as well, then they have no integrity and they will lose their credibility and reputation. Establishing trust between participating individuals is essential to business activities and making relationships. Just like real-life, there are risks, and so we just have to be smart and trust only the people and organizations that have credibility without bad records.

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The purpose of a private bank is to generate income for the institution for it's stakeholders by providing credits. What are your bank's sources of income (revenue)? For example, do you do net interest income? How about the organization's structure? Do you have a good private structure since this is a private institution? And most importantly, do you have people who know some finance and accounting for the operation to work and sustain it since this is banking?

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Eternal said:

The purpose of a private bank is to generate income for the institution for it's stakeholders by providing credits. What are your bank's sources of income (revenue)? For example, do you do net interest income? How about the organization's structure? Do you have a good private structure since this is a private institution? And most importantly, do you have people who know some finance and accounting for the operation to work and sustain it since this is banking?

Right now, we are not planning to give credits to people to earn money through interest, nor we are giving depositors any interest on their deposits.
Instead, we are currently aiming to provide minimal banking services like ore transfer for a fee.
People wouldn't have an account in our bank, but they will get an order number, a 16 digit passcode, and an option to choose specific payee/payees whenever they deposit money into our bank. It would be a kind of bill of exchange.
Slowly we would expand into loans and other complicated and risky services too.
 

Currently, we are planning to earn revenue through the fee, which we will charge on each deposit.

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4 hours ago, Eternal said:

The purpose of a private bank is to generate income for the institution for it's stakeholders by providing credits. What are your bank's sources of income (revenue)? For example, do you do net interest income? How about the organization's structure? Do you have a good private structure since this is a private institution? And most importantly, do you have people who know some finance and accounting for the operation to work and sustain it since this is banking?

Our organizational structure is also straightforward at the moment.
We will operate branches on different planet with branch managers, branch cashiers, security guards and supporting staffs.
We will also operate a builders department concerned with the design of the fortifications of our branches.
We will operate a central reserve in a safe zone holding atleast "ore = 25% of the total deposited ore" to avoid bankruptcy in case of any unfortunate incident such as raid or employee fraud.
Rest 75% of deposit is backed by collateral given to depositors.

Since we are currently providing very elementary banking services, we don't compulasarily need people with high level of financial or accounting knowledge atm.However, we would be grateful if people with such knowledge join us.
I am an entrepreneur so i know basic accounting.Enough to operate our bank at current level.
We will also operate a mercenary department to scale our forces during the time of distress and we will also rely on external mercenary organisations.
For logistics we will rely on internal logistics department and also external logistics organisation.
We want to be a scalable and reliable organisation.Running with maximum efficiency.

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I think theoreticly this is 100% possible/workable (as long fees are reasonable and reputation is upheld).

 

Yet, it will be hard. Most painful challenge is obviously security -- such banks (literaly full of ore!) will be prime target for attack, both open highway/bank robbery and to inside infiltration with scammy mole-empoyees (this even worse, honestly).

 

You really need to think about security protocols and safe systems like super hard, brainstorm it like hell.

 

May be it will be good idea to have empoyees to give you their own ore as garantee, proportional of what they more or lese operate, so they have no profit at least stealing something directly. They can have it back when quit. And never give anyone withdraw rights for central depository (if its not like your real life friend), even if you think this is some really nice guy. People can wait for years to scam you in such games.

 

So I wish you all possible luck to succed! I will be very glad to see it working.

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Eternal said:

Commercial banks in real-life are regulated anyway. There are so many government organizations in this game and yet they lack purpose! Why can't they accept registry of these private banks and regulate them? Private banks can register themselves under the jurisdiction of the government in order to operate in that country, thus they will be subject to it's regulations, then private banks can practice what is called a "fractional-reserve banking". Here is how it works: private banks need to deposit quantas to their balance on the central bank (a "central bank" is a government institution). This money is the private bank's "reserve" currently held by the central bank. What is this "reserve"? This reserve is how much liquid asset the private bank is allowed to hold, in other words this is how much total deposit they can accept from clients according to the regulation. When this private bank defaults, clients can dispute their quantas with the central bank which holds the private bank's reserve. If this government turns out as a fraud as well, then they have no integrity and they will lose their credibility and reputation. Establishing trust between participating individuals is essential to business activities and making relationships. Just like real-life, there are risks, and so we just have to be smart and trust only the people and organizations that have credibility without bad records.

Issuing promises to pay on demand in excess of the amount of goods on hand is simply fraud, and should be so considered by the legal system. For this means that a bank issues “fake” warehouse receipts — warehouse receipts, for example, for liters of kergon that do not actually exist in the vaults. This is legalized counterfeiting; this is the creation of money without the necessity for production, to compete for resources against those who have produced. In short, I believe that fractional-reserve banking is disastrous both for the morality and for the fundamental bases and institutions of the Novean market economy.

Fractional-reserve banks, especially when organized under a central bank, can and do create and then destroy money, distorting and impoverishing the Novean and the economy in their wake. 

I therefore advocate as the soundest monetary system and the only one fully compatible with the free market and with the absence of force or fraud from any source a 100 percent kergon standard. This is the only system compatible with the fullest preservation of the rights of property. It is the only system that assures the end of inflation and, with it, of the business cycle.

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You want collateral, and at the same time, the customer is needed to make a bailment (a deposit) in order for this to work. If the private bank is the one holding the collateral to guarantee your withdrawal demands, would you trust them? That is why you need a third-party involved -- the government. Let them hold the collateral so in the case of default, customers can go to the government for recourse. This collateral is the insurance. I invented this system. And then just practice fractional-reserve banking because the purpose of a bank is to make money and that's what makes the most money. The problem with fractional-reserve banking is meeting the withdrawal demands of customers that exceed the fractional reserve. If customers make huge withdrawal demand that can't be met with the fractional reserve, take from your insurance reserve in the central bank to give to the customer (this can be processed electronically without having to travel. the central government will buy the private bank's garbage in the marketplace machine element with the insurance money for a quick transfer so there can be no delay to the customer). according to the regulation: insurance reserve needs to be equal to the total deposit made by all customers combined. In other words, you are required by law to insure all their deposits. This is the system I designed. Two birds, one stone. You get to make the most money while insuring your customers, and they are really insured because they can go to the government that has the collateral.

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Bankers are inherently inclined toward statism. Commercial bankers, engaged as they are in unsound fractional reserve credit, are, in the free market, always teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. Hence they are always reaching for government aid and bailout. @Eternal's idea is interesting and worth analysing.

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On 5/22/2020 at 2:21 AM, rothbardian said:

bankruptcy

A bank is considered bankrupt (or insolvent) when it cannot meet withdrawal demands of it's customers in terms of liquid asset and fail to raise it. Commercial banks can also issue credits (IOUs) in the form of deposits like a central bank issuing bank notes (currency) out of nothing and loan them to borrowers or acquire physical or financial assets. Commercial banks are the biggest source of credits and next to it is the central bank. Did you know that 90% of the money in the world that we use today are in the form of electronic deposits and only about 10% are cash? If the commercial bank keeps generating IOUs electronically out of nothing, their liabilities will grow while their assets will remain the same (supposed if the loan is not paid) -- this is why they cannot abuse this too much (they will get too indebted, and like I said, bankruptcy is when they fail to meet withdrawal demands of customers when they want to withdraw cash). All assets must be deposited to the bank in the form of liquid asset. A loan is an asset to the bank (they are called "illiquid asset" and when the borrower defaults, that bad loan is wiped and that asset disappears. If they are paid, then the bank managed to convert it to liquid asset). A bank is not bankrupt yet when they have negative shareholder's equity.

 

You have to understand that the way the economy and the financial system are designed is not based on equity (fairness) but to sustain production in order to meet demands and for development also. Cash and bank deposits are just IOUs. Commercial banks can generate IOUs too and that becomes new money when they loan them (in fact, they are the biggest credit source, not the central bank). Commercial banks help keep the economy running by advancing loans to the public (they do not loan only the assets that they have on their reserve such as customers' cash deposits, they can generate electronic IOUs out of nothing and loan them. Borrow from a bank and that is what you're borrowing). Ofcourse the government needs these banks, without them the economy will be worse.

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On 5/22/2020 at 2:21 AM, rothbardian said:

Hence they are always reaching for government aid and bailout.

When their reserve is low and fails to meet the minimum requirement, they borrow from the central bank. If the central bank bails them out because of default, the same thing happens to the central bank: the liabilities grow while the loan is wiped (government becomes more indebted). They bailed them out because the economic activity will be affected if these banks are to close (they will do a rate cut first; bailout is like a last resort). We have the Coronavirus right now and because of people getting laid off and unable to make loan payments because they lost their livelihood, banks become more indebted because of defaults and lack of revenue (because of this, the banks do not have enough reserve). Government needs to do something to save the economy on a crisis such as this.

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13 hours ago, Eternal said:

You have to understand that the way the economy and the financial system are designed is not based on equity (fairness) but to sustain production in order to meet demands and for development also. Cash and bank deposits are just IOUs. Commercial banks can generate IOUs too and that becomes new money when they loan them (in fact, they are the biggest credit source, not the central bank). Commercial banks help keep the economy running by advancing loans to the public (they do not loan only the assets that they have on their reserve such as customers' cash deposits, they can generate electronic IOUs out of nothing and loan them. Borrow from a bank and that is what you're borrowing). Ofcourse the government needs these banks, without them the economy will be worse.

Increased production of trade does not “require” or call forth an increase in bank money. The causal chain is the other way round: increased bank note issue raises the money supply and prices, and also the nominal money value of the goods being produced. Bank money or government money, whether as tangible notes or demand deposits, is an increase in the effective money supply virtually out of thin air. 

A “free market” also means no government interference whatever in the economy. It means that private individuals and firms are free to earn money and profits, and that they are also free to lose. There can be no genuine freedom to choose without a corollary freedom to lose. No firm may be considered “too big to fail.” And so a free market in money necessarily means the abolition of central banking and of so-called deposit “insurance.” Banks must be free to fail.

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In order to stimulate economic growth, you need QE to increase consumer spending. Like you said, QE causes rise in prices and drop in purchasing power. The government has an inflation rate target every year for controlled inflation and that is what you want (not hyperinflation). How do you control inflation? Interest rate because whatever the bank profits is a "sink". Increase the interest rate and their reserve grows (they took more money out). But people do not borrow when interest rates are high and in order to incentivize them to borrow, you lower the interest rate (if people do not borrow = less economic activity). They play around with the interest rate to control the inflation. That's how it works.

 

When production increased and more and more goods are produced, prices drop (deflation and an increase in purchasing power). If prices should continue to drop, are you stupid to spend now when you know that they will continue to drop and you can get it for cheaper in the future? and are you stupid to invest in stocks at all when you know that they will continue to lose value? People horde money when prices are continuing to drop. So deflation is not a good thing. You need moderate inflation (not deflation) for a healthy economy. To do that, you QE while your economy is continuing to grow.

 

That's what people do when prices go down. What people do not understand is it will go back up again (like they always do) because government will do something to get the prices back up. It's rigged man! Right now stocks plunged low as an effect of this Coronavirus. Go to stores right now and line up and you'll see that things are cheap because they are trying to clear up their inventory to generate liquidity. Now is the perfect time to invest on the correct stocks and that's what I'm doing because I know that the market is rigged and this is a bubble. Prices will go back up again because of government intervention or Canada will be forever screwed economically.

 

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The business cycle phenomenon, the recurring alternations of boom and bust with which we have become all too familiar, cannot occur in a free and unhampered market. Expansion of bank money causes an artificial lowering of the rate of interest, and an artificial and uneconomic overinvestment in capital goods: machinery, plant, industrial raw materials, construction projects. As long as the inflationary expansion of money and bank credit continues, the unsoundness of this process is masked, and the economy can ride on the well-known euphoria of the boom; but when the bank credit expansion finally stops, and stop it must if we are to avoid a runaway inflation, then the day of reckoning will have arrived. For without the anodyne of continuing inflation of money, the distortions and misallocations of production, the overinvestment in uneconomic capital projects and the excessively high prices and wages in those capital goods industries become evident and obvious. It is then that the inevitable recession sets in, the recession being the reaction by which the market economy readjusts itself, liquidates unsound investments, and realigns prices and outputs of the economy so as to eliminate the unsound consequences of the boom. The recovery arrives when the readjustment has been completed.

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On 4/28/2020 at 12:51 PM, CrystalEmperor said:

OUR BUSINESS MODEL
Our business model is very simple.We will have branches on different planet across helios system.
Miners and players can deposit ores into any branch and withdraw ores from any branch.
Hence they would not need to worry about getting looted by pirates and enemy orgs after mining expeditions.
We will charge certain percentage of ore as processing fee at the time of deposit.

This is a very interesting idea, I have some questions...

 

This seems a little bit like trading, with Extra Steps?

 

I can envision several use cases for customers (enumerated below) but am struggling to see how this will fit the customer needs. I have only just discovered DU so if I am misunderstanding any mechanics, please correct me.

 

First, I will assume the markets in the ores in question are liquid (buy/sell spread is small, enough buy/sell orders that trading is easy).

1. Let's say I, a potential customer, have just mined a bunch of ore but will not be using it immediately, for one reason or another. I could deposit it in your bank, collect some collateral (I assume this would be in Quanta? in any case, not equal to 100% of the value of the ore) and incur the fees. Or, I could instead sell the ore and pocket the Quanta in my completely secure wallet. I would be risking that the value of ore would change over time, but in return I would not be exposed to any risk from the bank (which I believe others in the thread of outlined), I would not pay bank fees, and I would have the ability to use the Quanta in the intervening period as I saw fit. Once I needed the ore, I would simply buy it from the (liquid) market.

2. On the other hand, maybe I want ore transferred from where I mined it to where I will be using it. I could deposit it in your bank, travel without risk of it getting stolen from me, and then withdraw from another branch. This seems like a good deal for the customer. But if there is aggregate mismatch in supply and demand in these locations, the bank will wind up transporting ore around. And it will not cost me extra to withdraw it in a high-demand location compared to a low-demand location. On the other hand, if I simply sell the ore where I mined it, and then purchase it where I need to use it, any aggregate mismatch in supply and demand should induce a price discrepancy that would incentivize traders to meet the demand. They would be transporting the same amount of ore (in aggregate) as the bank, but without a good deal of the overhead.

 

Things look a little different if we contemplate items with illiquid markets.

1. The first use case is more of a storage facility service. This seems to pretty well match one branch of what you envision building.

2. The second use case is something of a secure courier service. I can certainly see a demand for this too.

 

As others have mentioned, banks may have evolved from institutions that seem similar to what you are describing, but modern banks are redistributors of capital. Mimicing the function of modern banks in DU would be an interesting proposition to try, though I'm a little doubtful it can work in a universe with a fixed amount of currency. I think we're more likely to see redistribution in the downward direction in the form of wealth taxes.

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On 6/10/2020 at 6:28 AM, Poliwopper said:

1. Let's say I, a potential customer, have just mined a bunch of ore but will not be using it immediately, for one reason or another. I could deposit it in your bank, collect some collateral (I assume this would be in Quanta? in any case, not equal to 100% of the value of the ore) and incur the fees. Or, I could instead sell the ore and pocket the Quanta in my completely secure wallet. I would be risking that the value of ore would change over time, but in return I would not be exposed to any risk from the bank (which I believe others in the thread of outlined), I would not pay bank fees, and I would have the ability to use the Quanta in the intervening period as I saw fit. Once I needed the ore, I would simply buy it from the (liquid) market.

2. On the other hand, maybe I want ore transferred from where I mined it to where I will be using it. I could deposit it in your bank, travel without risk of it getting stolen from me, and then withdraw from another branch. This seems like a good deal for the customer. But if there is aggregate mismatch in supply and demand in these locations, the bank will wind up transporting ore around. And it will not cost me extra to withdraw it in a high-demand location compared to a low-demand location. On the other hand, if I simply sell the ore where I mined it, and then purchase it where I need to use it, any aggregate mismatch in supply and demand should induce a price discrepancy that would incentivize traders to meet the demand. They would be transporting the same amount of ore (in aggregate) as the bank, but without a good deal of the overhead.

 

In DU different planets have different ores.If you will sell ore on the planet you have mined it then obviously you will get less money because theres a suplus of it there.
But Liquidity is on alioth.Prices are determined on alioth's market.(atleast till now)
Now if you mined Ore X on jago.Then you would want it to sell it on alioth.For which you have to haul it physically to alioth.
Thats where our bank comes in.

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5 hours ago, CrystalEmperor said:

In DU different planets have different ores.If you will sell ore on the planet you have mined it then obviously you will get less money because theres a suplus of it there.
But Liquidity is on alioth.Prices are determined on alioth's market.(atleast till now)
Now if you mined Ore X on jago.Then you would want it to sell it on alioth.For which you have to haul it physically to alioth.
Thats where our bank comes in.

I think the markets will be liquid on most planets, particularly due to the market bots, but let's suppose I (a potential customer of your bank) want to take the ore I mined on Jago to Alioth and sell it there, due to price differences.

 

If I (and other customers) can put ore in your bank in Jago and withdraw it on Alioth, you're going to need to be moving ore from your Jago branch to your Alioth branch, or buying ore on Alioth and selling it on Jago. In other words you will be losing the Jago/Alioth ore value spread! That would be a great deal for the customer but not a sustainable business model for the bank from what I can tell.

 

It kind of sounds like what you're describing is a trading scheme where you buy ores on other planets and sell them on Alioth. That could make a lot of sense (although it depends on the spreads the market bots give for ores I suppose, since you have to beat their prices). I, a miner on Jago, don't necessarily have the equipment to transport ore safely to Alioth to sell. You could invest in a nice ship and then reap the rewards by making safe trading trips between planets.

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On 6/17/2020 at 7:59 PM, Poliwopper said:

 

It kind of sounds like what you're describing is a trading scheme where you buy ores on other planets and sell them on Alioth

Yes behind the scene we will be something like a hauling orgnisation.Its more like delivery scheme than trading scheme.

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