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Will there be any form of resource regerantionH


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6 hours ago, Evil_Porcupine said:

Both of these happen too slowly to be included in the game.

 

I hope this doesn't totally ruin the game for you but I have a feeling that the first round of resources that are placed throughout the game world will also be placed there in a less then 100% realistic timeframe.   MUH IMMERSION!!!!!1!  

 

All we really know is that NQ plans to stay away from the old and tired method of respawning resource nodes.  Which is great.

The SAME resource won't respawn in the SAME place twice.  That's all we know.

 

I don't think that means they can't try to find realistic ways of giving people reasons to explore and gather resources in the same areas over time.

 

Respawning nodes are boring.  But having a completely static unchanging game world sounds pretty boring and unrealistic too.

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24 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

Respawning nodes are boring.  But having a completely static unchanging game world sounds pretty boring and unrealistic too.

I want to know how that unrealistic and boring ? It encourage people to expand, explore , venture into unknown.

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24 minutes ago, ShioriStein said:

I want to know how that unrealistic and boring ? It encourage people to expand, explore , venture into unknown.

 

Because I think it will create the same dynamic that happens in most older MMOS where you play through an area and then once you're done you move on to the next one and never go back.

 

The resources that are out there in the universe will always be there to encourage people to expand and explore.  Especially if they become more rare and valuable the further you go.

 

But A system where completely new resources could appear later on in an area that you've already been, definitely doesn't discourage exploration either.

 

It just also encourages exploring areas that other people have already explored before.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Atmosph3rik said:

 

Because I think it will create the same dynamic that happens in most older MMOS where you play through an area and then once you're done you move on to the next one and never go back.

 

The resources that are out there in the universe will always be there to encourage people to expand and explore.  Especially if they become more rare and valuable the further you go.

 

But A system where completely new resources could appear later on in an area that you've already been, definitely doesn't discourage exploration either.

 

It just also encourages exploring areas that other people have already explored before.

 

 

That's something which may very well be more productive to approach by means of game feature iteration over time. For example, technology paths. A resource deposit of a type which previously was depleted, may be viable at a later point when an advanced version of such a tech path becomes available. Another example is through scripting, a concept of tweaking could also be introduced by the devs. Something can provide acces to a resource if highly tuned, if not, then you can't get to it. 

 

The idea of depletion being a mechanism of entropy is something I would value heavily. Virtually no mmo has this. EVE could have gotten it, but well, door closed (no pun intended). No behavioural dynamic - which is what determines use of scarcity and availability - can consistantly be both stable as well as in a state of flux if there is no presence of entropy. From a different angle, it also adds stimuli for player organisations to innovate on their own goals and functionality. Thus introducing fun group behaviour which tends to prevent things from going stale. 

 

I think we shouldn't see resources as a mechanism seperate from DU's underlying economics and human interaction schema. Means to an end, glue and lube as well as goal and type of play. If this would mean that demographics would carry an element of geo-economics all the better. Expansive / moving demographics isn't a bad thing. It's a good thing. 

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Depleting resources means that a powerful org or alliance cannot "settle" in a given area of space and spend years fortifying that home system with its constantly respawning resources. Sooner or later they will need to venture outside of that area to find new deposits of the rarer resources, which takes them outside of their comfort zone and starts stretching their borders ever wider.

 

It will take many years to completely strip a system of resources, and it's quite possible that NQ might introduce new uses for land on "mined-out" planets. There's plenty of time for that though, it's unlikely that it will become a pressing matter in the first 5 years after launch...

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48 minutes ago, NanoDot said:

Depleting resources means that a powerful org or alliance cannot "settle" in a given area of space and spend years fortifying that home system with its constantly respawning resources. Sooner or later they will need to venture outside of that area to find new deposits of the rarer resources, which takes them outside of their comfort zone and starts stretching their borders ever wider.

 

It will take many years to completely strip a system of resources, and it's quite possible that NQ might introduce new uses for land on "mined-out" planets. There's plenty of time for that though, it's unlikely that it will become a pressing matter in the first 5 years after launch...

Sure they can. For starters, consider the volumes of resource deposits / sources. I'd be willing to wager that having to venture outside of an established territory will take years for any pressure to become tangible - there will likely be more typical constraints such as resource types in regards to distribution. As you say, no pressing matter and people are short term animals either way.

 

Settling and building up is a human thing. People will do it anyway. It pays to do so and it pleases to do so. This is what creates dependancy interactions on top of social interactions. Add to this both generic market mechanisms and human variants of that (complementary, supplementary, substitutes etc) and I'm not worried about these things. 

 

I sincerely doubt that any of this will create any tangible pressure points pushing organisations out of their comfort zones. But I could be wrong, depending on how the game provides room for logistics - the penultimate cornerstone of just about anything.

 

Frankly, there's a high potential conflict driver right there: the value of well functioning territories and their organisations. Now that is something which can and will take people out of comfort zones. 

 

It's rarely resources, natural or otherwise. It tends to be human. 

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I agree 100% that once a resource is depleted in an area that specific resource should be gone forever.  Respawing resources is an old solution to make very small game worlds feel less stagnant.    

 

But I'm not sure DU's game world is quite large enough that it's sheer size will simply solve the problem completely by itself though either.  That seems short sighted.  The real world is constantly evolving and changing.

 

The way I see it "Non-respawning resources" is simply a statement on NQs part on how they won't be solving the problem.  In the same old way everyone else has.

 

That doesn't mean there won't be more to their solution then we know right now though.  I hope.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

I agree 100% that once a resource is depleted in an area that specific resource should be gone forever.  Respawing resources is an old solution to make very small game worlds feel less stagnant.    

 

But I'm not sure DU's game world is quite large enough that it's sheer size will simply solve the problem completely by itself though either.  That seems short sighted.  The real world is constantly evolving and changing.

 

The way I see it "Non-respawning resources" is simply a statement on NQs part on how they won't be solving the problem.  In the same old way everyone else has.

 

That doesn't mean there won't be more to their solution then we know right now though.  I hope.

 

 

Well, the idea isn't that there's always going to be enough of everything ... scarcity is a factor (not the only one, but even a solar system carries variables and types of scarcity). 

 

A game isn't just "done", it also evolves - it gets worked on, built on. 

 

I haven't found much of a real statement from NQ on any relation between scale and economics. I've read they want no arbitrary constraints, and there's a lot of talk on virtual economics. But it's in that relation where the implementation really is decided. Economies of scale isn't necessarily static, it can easily be migratory. Shifting the center of things, much like how cities once were built around a temple, later on around a market, later around a stadium - etc. 

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15 hours ago, Veld said:

Minerals are deposited and crystals grow, yes, but are you going to wait 10,000s of years for that? Yup plants grow can't argue with that. And meteriotes would be an interesting feature. Like a bunch of meteorites appear and they have a new material on them.

That is actually very interesting. Dynamic events like that could suddenly turn a known low value zone into an hotspot, bringing new conflicts and interests into play. 

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20 minutes ago, Demonneo said:

That is actually very interesting. Dynamic events like that could suddenly turn a known low value zone into an hotspot, bringing new conflicts and interests into play. 

Yea I like to think of it as like how a DM makes events in DnD. Hope they do something like that.

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9 hours ago, NanoDot said:

Depleting resources means that a powerful org or alliance cannot "settle" in a given area of space and spend years fortifying that home system with its constantly respawning resources. Sooner or later they will need to venture outside of that area to find new deposits of the rarer resources, which takes them outside of their comfort zone and starts stretching their borders ever wider.

 

It will take many years to completely strip a system of resources, and it's quite possible that NQ might introduce new uses for land on "mined-out" planets. There's plenty of time for that though, it's unlikely that it will become a pressing matter in the first 5 years after launch...

Like turning mined out areas into farms and settlements..... no problems for that to occur as things stand currently.

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We shouldn't have issues for five years as stated above but the first arkship will be highly contested land Will there ever be a griefer problem with things like what we see in the oldest server in minecraft? (A good example even if its a older game)

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On 30/04/2018 at 10:57 PM, Atmosph3rik said:

But I'm not sure DU's game world is quite large enough that it's sheer size will simply solve the problem completely by itself though either.

The surface area of Alioth is around 45,000 km2... and that's just 1 of the 12 planets in the starter system...

Then there's the multiple moons around those planets, and some asteroid fields...

 

We know DU will have more than one solar system once interstellar travel is added (probably the first big expansion after launch).

 

I'm not aware of any MMO that's had anywhere close to the playable surface area that will be in DU at launch, and that surface area will rapidly increase as new solar systems come into play.

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1 hour ago, NanoDot said:

The surface area of Alioth is around 45,000 km2... and that's just 1 of the 12 planets in the starter system...

Then there's the multiple moons around those planets, and some asteroid fields...

 

We know DU will have more than one solar system once interstellar travel is added (probably the first big expansion after launch).

 

I'm not aware of any MMO that's had anywhere close to the playable surface area that will be in DU at launch, and that surface area will rapidly increase as new solar systems come into play.

It seems to me the debate in itself comes from gameplay expectations / desires from certain types of players. Part of the spectrum of human behaviour is to want safety, isolation, the ability to plant a flag and not relocate after building the house. From these types of perspectives it's only logical that a desire for resource regeneration would follow. 

 

But yeah, the volume of useable space and thus resources DU is to present at launch is staggering. Furthermore, the entire foundation is the idea to build up to going out there, something the game is set to not just cater, but stimulate. 

 

I don't see how people are going to get in trouble with predatory / normal human behaviour for quite a while. But I've seen in other games how strong the desire of player types can be to just carve out a niche and sit there until the end of days. Resource depletion is a fundamental requirement of any environment that seeks meaningful emergent gameplay. It's part of entropy concepts. Obvious comparison is EVE Online, which has no entropy concepts applied through game design. As a result, in terms of social psychology it remains a village in terms of demographics and geo-economics. Everything is a feeding system. When food gets scarce, people innovate, adapt, move or die. What I've read, seen and heard thusfar from DU/NQ appears to indicate that they get this challenge.

 

The starter system isn't a place to call home, it's a kickstarter environment. Something to experiment, plunder and pillage, essentially until it either through growth becomes a pressure cooker or through entropy pushes people towards greener pastures. Combined with the lure and lore of prospects, obviously. 

 

Sure, people will end up stripping systems to the bone. Welcome to human nature. It's that which makes a sandbox real. Who knows, some people might carve out a territory and be resource/eco conscious. Others might set aside strategic deposits. Others might see others as resource reservoirs. For the most part people won't really care as long as there's triggers to explore, puzzle, build, team up, compete. That's game design. While DU thusfar is in an alpha state, what's visible currently does provide reasonable trust in vision on that game design to be inline with what it takes to make things, choices and actions have meaning. 

 

Resource regeneration? It's a seriously bad idea.

 

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4 hours ago, virtuozzo said:

Resource regeneration? It's a seriously bad idea.

The only resource regen I would like to see is vegetation and animal (assuming there will be animals of some sort to farm) - basically things that can be grown and are alive. All other minerals/rocks/soil/oils/gases etc should be non regenerating.

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16 hours ago, unown006 said:

We shouldn't have issues for five years as stated above but the first arkship will be highly contested land Will there ever be a griefer problem with things like what we see in the oldest server in minecraft? (A good example even if its a older game)

 I believe you are referencing 2b2t, which is the SECOND oldest, not THE oldest. DU is actually rather forgiving with TCUs and Arkship spawn compared to 2b2t. Also a lot more people can be online at the same time. I don't play on the server myself but I hear people complaining about the large amounts of lag and queue times. The combination of more people being online and the land areas of planets being much smaller (the MC world max size is that of Neptune, its not uncommon to see people a million blocks out from (0,0) in the server) as well as an incentive to stay that her rather then go out as far as possible should mean that there is a higher player density and hopefully better law enforcement.

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On 5/5/2018 at 11:11 PM, 0something0 said:

 I believe you are referencing 2b2t, which is the SECOND oldest, not THE oldest. DU is actually rather forgiving with TCUs and Arkship spawn compared to 2b2t. Also a lot more people can be online at the same time. I don't play on the server myself but I hear people complaining about the large amounts of lag and queue times. The combination of more people being online and the land areas of planets being much smaller (the MC world max size is that of Neptune, its not uncommon to see people a million blocks out from (0,0) in the server) as well as an incentive to stay that her rather then go out as far as possible should mean that there is a higher player density and hopefully better law enforcement.

Ah my bad I thought it was the oldest and yes there is major lag something I think DU will fix But I am talking about the new players who have to cross the great wall of china that someone or many people build over time and holes traps and such around the arkship 

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