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Durendal5150

Mod Schematics/Aftermarket BPs

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So here's one from the discord. Idea courtesy of TheGreatPigeon who assures me he's too lazy to post it. I like it enough I'll put it up and give my thoughts on it.

 

The basic gist is to allow a construct made from a blueprint to be edited, and for those changes to, themselves, be saved as a blueprint. Unlike a normal blueprint, this new type (We'll call it a 'schematic' for now,) can't be used in a factory by itself or to make new constructs. In order to be used, it requires either a construct the original blueprint was for, or a copy of that blueprint alongside it.

 

A usage case:

X designs a fightercraft that's fairly popular. Z finds that it's undergunned and a little slow for his tastes. He adds some more weapons, changes the materials to lighten it up, and adds a sick spoiler just for fun. When he saves this, it becomes a schematic. If he has a copy of X's fighter, he can apply that schematic, in a factory or some other industrial unit, or possibly directly to the construct using guides and his nanoformer. If he has a BP, he can put both into a factory and produce a copy of the fighter with his schematic already applied.

 

If he has neither the fighter or the blueprint, his schematic doesn't do anything at all.

 

So this achieves a few things:

1: It allows iterative creativity while still protecting the IP of the original creator.
2: It can drive market sales for all parties. If Z's schematic is really popular, People are going to want to buy a lot more of X's fighter to get to use it!
3: It can allow players/orgs to customize their own variants of a construct without needing the original designer to do the work themselves, but still get paid for their original work.

Now obviously, as a toggle, a BP could still have an "Allow/Disallow schematics" sort of option, to give the original IP holder more control. But I think a system like this could allow for some very interesting interactions to take place, without any enormous degree of additional complexity.

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It make me get some exploit here: If A make a struct which love by many people, then A create BP and sell them to other. Then B see that he maybe can do something with A BP by modified something in the construct which make from A BP and then he create "Schematic" from it and then with A's BP or Fighter he sell it back with the price cheaper or higher due to it got more ability like faster a bit, stronger a bit, luxury more a bit then it turn out B just change a bit from A construct he able to sell it already.

It make the system is not ok. If you want you can modified it and sell the "dynamic" construct that have been modified to other. Open a Mod shop where you modified the original to something special than.

Like in real life, you can modified the vehicle but you need a vehicle not from the vehicle you just modified then you are able to factory produce it.

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@ShioriStein You didn't get his idea.

 

It's like dress-up paper doll (google it):

Original BP is the doll itself.

Mod schematics is the dress.

Dress without doll is useless.

If you decide to sell both your dress (that you can copy as much as you like) together with doll (which you need to buy each time) cheaper than doll, you'll loose money.

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Modprints, I thought, what a nice idea. It gives an answer to those that keep asking to modify already made ships. But then a question occured to me: 

 

"When does a modification stop being a modification and instead become a brand new ship?"

 

It is a variant of the Theseus Paradox

 

This would be an issue if the whole ship could be blueprinted again, mods and all and then sold as a brand new ship. The OP suggests  the mod is coupled to the original on a 1-to-1 basis: the original ship is required before a mod can be applied. I would go further and say the original physical ship is required,  not just a blueprint of the original. Now you could say only one mod allowed per ship which means old mod must be remove before a new one is applied. But what if you want many mods? Have them combined into a special single mod.

 

But wait, I feel like the idea of "modprints" skipped a step. They assume you can change a ship so that the "modprint" can be made in the first place. Isn't that already modding the ship except the mod cannot be printed and sold. So without the "modprints" you still arguably have all 3 positive points in the OP that the "modprints" are meant to solve.

 

So a construct could be bought with the following permissions, each allowing more than the last:

1) No permissions - no modifying of the construct or blueprint/modprint creation allowed at all.

2) Modify only (no sharing) - the new owner of the construct can change it as the owner wishes but cannot create blueprints or modprints. 

3) Mod-prints (schematics as OP calls them) - Can modify the construct and can create mod-prints for reselling. This requires the original construct to apply the mod to and it cannot be modded again (mod can be removed and replaced with another).

4) Full permissions - modify allowed and modprints/blueprints can be created. This is basically like handing out master blueprints. Effectively opensource constructs xD

 

This could get much more complex for example allowing (or not) owners to modify LUA, voxels and elements independently, but let's ignore those for now.

 

In summary: I like the idea. Keep them coming. 

 

Edit: Delta-print may be a more descriptive and cooler name ;)

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I'd rather keep it simple:

-master blueprint with all the permissions, including access to Lua

-slave blueprint which can be used only once, and you can't create blueprints nor save things into tool library out of created construct. Also accessing any Lua console wipes the code (with warning/confirmation window). Can be edited, can have mod-prints.

-same two level system for mod-prints.

 

IMO BP protection is to protect from re-selling, not to limit creative modifications.

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So i understand somehow of your idea. Thanks to calenloki.

But i have a question: Cant you just create a mod shop and modding the ship ?

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5 hours ago, Kurock said:

*snip*

Schematic isn't suitably clear, no. delta-print, maybe. I considered "Iterative Blueprint" because the shorthand would be simple. You'd just have BPs and iBPs, and all the follow-on acronyms.

 

I hadn't considered working original blueprint permissions into the idea to that level, but I think it's a good move!

 

So, the reason I did include 'you can apply a mod with only the original blueprint' is to add flexibility. What if the original designer isn't a manufacturer? WIth the ability to just manufacture a modded construct directly by using a BPC and an iBP, the designer can license his IP directly to a manufacturer that wants to make the modded version, without any interim steps or third parties.

 

I don't think you'd want the ability to 'combine' mods as this could get sloppy. I don't see any reason why an iBP/schematic can't itself be iterative, requiring copies of all previous modded constructs/BPs, or being applied one at a time.

4 hours ago, CalenLoki said:

I'd rather keep it simple:

-master blueprint with all the permissions, including access to Lua

-slave blueprint which can be used only once, and you can't create blueprints nor save things into tool library out of created construct. Also accessing any Lua console wipes the code (with warning/confirmation window). Can be edited, can have mod-prints.

-same two level system for mod-prints.

 

IMO BP protection is to protect from re-selling, not to limit creative modifications.

It may be better to keep the whole system as simple as possible, yes. I'm not 100% sure that's the case, as you lose some flexibility, but there's definitely merit to it.

4 hours ago, ShioriStein said:

So i understand somehow of your idea. Thanks to calenloki.

But i have a question: Cant you just create a mod shop and modding the ship ?

I'm not sure I quite understand what you're asking? If it's something akin to 'could someone make a business solely of designing and applying modifications to existing designs' then yes, that'd be an intended effect of this system.

 

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I mean instead of modding into the BP to something called schematic. We can create a modding store (or mod shop if you ever player GTA ).

At mod shop they can modified your ship like change engine, change color, change some shape, change weapon, change energy core, ... And now your ship is different than the stock ship.

I dont think modding BP require.

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Ahh, I get you. No, none of that requires anything to do with blueprints, and I imagine would be a factor of the RDMS as it applies to IP in general. What I'm talking about is pretty much a totally separate thing from that, at least mechanically.

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So ... from your word it mean, with a BP like a body, and from a real body you modified something onit then you create a "schemetic" which include what you modified on it, then you put 2 BP + "Schemetic" into the factory unit and create the schemetic ?

But if so why not create a modding shop ? 

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If by "mod shop" you mean a place you take your ship so that other players can modify it, then yes that is required first before "delta-prints (DPs)" aka schematics can even be created. The delta-prints are just a way of easily selling mods en-mass and not required for the mods themselves. (Ignore for now whether it uses factory units or whatever)

 

If by "mod shop" you mean a prebuilt modding element that handles like GTA vehicle upgrading then forget about it.

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I quite like this idea, however I'm a strong believer in the "First Sale" doctrine. Once an object is sold, it should be freely modifiable by any further purchasers. 

To wit: I love the idea of having Deltas, however I hate permissions preventing modifications.

 

I think Blue Prints only need to have a Master/Copy designation. Masters can produce both Copies and more Masters. Copies can only produce the construct.

 

Additionally, Deltas should be able to be made from any other Blue Print, but should still be dependent upon the original. The dependency should nest for each Delta made from another Delta. If someone has several Master Deltas, they should be able combine them together to make a new Master Delta. If someone has both the Original Master and Master Deltas, they should be able to combine those together to make a new Master.

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That makes a good deal of sense, certainly. I don't see a lot of reasons to prevent modification of a purchased object, so long as copy/pasting from it and re-blueprinting it are prevented to protect the IP of the original holder.

 

I think the idea to combine the master copies of several iterative blueprints back into a complete singular master is a good idea as well. Simplifying the life of anyone who's been given full rights to the IP of all the involved items isn't a bad thing by any means.

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Yeah, it maybe create more creative in BP like Nvidia Card, so many custom for a single VGA card from many company : )

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