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Iskiox

Planetary Claim Systems

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So from the previous videos DU Devs have posted it appears that the current system of claiming will be on hexagonal tiles and dependent on territory units--which are to be expensive. My idea is that what if the system worked like this:

 

A claim possess one central beacon/territory unit which is extremely resource heavy but still feasible, with it you can build on adjacent tiles less expensive territory units; the catch would be that to build more adjacent territory units you must upgrade the central unit--which cannot be done indefinitely. Secondly, if a central unit is hacked/destroyed/sold/captured then all sub-sectors will be destroyed/captured, this would then support the construction of cities around central units as you'll need to prioritize their protection, and since you cannot expand forever with one central beacon you will need to construct more to continue expanding, which in turn means more cities. Take this example:

I9n2Jl4.png

Here you can see three central hubs. One has been fully upgraded and thus a second has been placed to continue expansion. With this model future central units do not have to be adjacent to continue expansion, which in turn allows for multiple cities/colonies around a planet. The only stipulation with this is that it gives the opportunity for organizations to quickly take over planets by constructing multiple central units at different sides of a planet; to mitigate this there could be a limit of central units on one planet, or that the price of a central unit increases based on how many a player/organization already owns on said planet.

 

What do you guys think?

 

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This is nice idea. It will make an Org claim a planet faster. We should have 2 claim system, one is which NQ introduce, a claim hub any tile they want , this will make sure there land will safe even if one of the hub is destroy/capture and more secure but more expensive to their org to build and maintain. And the other is your idea, a central hub and sub hub which cheap(not so much cheap to prevent abusing) to capture around central hub but it depend and connect deeply to the central hub and this way make an Org capture/expand their land fast but with the risk lost all of them once the central hub is breaking down/ capture.
This is nice idea after all, NQ should add this into game, more way to play the game = more fun .
I will really want to see an Org collapse and disband because they lost their Capital ( central hub) =]]

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in that video they talk about that somewhere - you can link territories to ease RDMS chaos (but also make it more vulnerable). An enemy force possibly can't attack the central hex either (but we have to see which mechanics make it to beta....so....all speculation right now)

 

And I disagree - having a territory should be hard and expensive. And it should take time for people to actually get them - slow ppl down and enforce interaction. If it's cheap and fast, it doesn't make up for good and interesting gameplay

 

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1 minute ago, Lethys said:

 

in that video they talk about that somewhere - you can link territories to ease RDMS chaos (but also make it more vulnerable). An enemy force possibly can't attack the central hex either (but we have to see which mechanics make it to beta....so....all speculation right now)

 

And I disagree - having a territory should be hard and expensive. And it should take time for people to actually get them - slow ppl down and enforce interaction. If it's cheap and fast, it doesn't make up for good and interesting gameplay

 

ah so we just have 2 claim system like i say, one for risk and one for sure.
And i also said that sub claim hub shouldnt so cheap to prevent abusing it. But wont you dont want to breaking down a GIGANTIC empire by assault their central hub ? With me just have 2 system, people will have to think more and more way to play the game , to deal with each system and make people to chose , fast but risk or slow but sure.

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1 minute ago, ShioriStein said:

ah so we just have 2 claim system like i say, one for risk and one for sure.
And i also said that sub claim hub shouldnt so cheap to prevent abusing it. But wont you dont want to breaking down a GIGANTIC empire by assault their central hub ? With me just have 2 system, people will have to think more and more way to play the game , to deal with each system and make people to chose , fast but risk or slow but sure.

no you don't have two systems. It's only one.

 

You claim a territory

You claim a second territory right next to the first one

You claim a third territory right next to the first one

......

You can leave all those territories as they are. So when Tile 5 is attacked and lost, you only lose that tile.

OR

You can link all (or only some) together to create a big tile. Now RDMS is easier because you only have to manage one tile, but if that one tile is destroyed - you lose every single one which made the big one.

If you surround your central tile, then it might not be possible to attack it (but obviously there always has to be a way to get to that - otherwise it would be broken)

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7 minutes ago, Lethys said:

no you don't have two systems. It's only one.

 

You claim a territory

You claim a second territory right next to the first one

You claim a third territory right next to the first one

......

You can leave all those territories as they are. So when Tile 5 is attacked and lost, you only lose that tile.

OR

You can link all (or only some) together to create a big tile. Now RDMS is easier because you only have to manage one tile, but if that one tile is destroyed - you lose every single one which made the big one.

If you surround your central tile, then it might not be possible to attack it (but obviously there always has to be a way to get to that - otherwise it would be broken)

I know but i wish we got 2. Why ?
Link all claim hub to a central hub ? nah. I can spend little effort ( or pay someone do it in Org) to do it, why i have to risk link every Tile together to get it easier to lost, no?
But if we got 2 claim system, it will be more way to play the game, faster but more risk and slow but sure. We all do it every time dont we? the Greed wanna to faster.
And i also say the sub claim hub should so cheap , it mean like 1 claim hub  = 2-4 sub hub, no?

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I completely disagree with this idea.  Claiming a planet should require claiming every tile on it.  It should be very difficult for even a very large organization to accomplish.  Of course an organization that controls most of a planet would probably have enough power to dominate anyone else on it, but they should not automatically control anything more than the tiles they have claimed.

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What if you surround one central territory with other territory units the central one gets a "defensive boost", like it draws power from the other surrounding ones to make it much harder to hack, capture or destroy? As such the core of the territory is by default harder to assault - but not impossible. this will force an attacker to start at the edges of the territory and creep in and as they capture/destroy as they advance, the core will lose its defensive boost, whether instantly or precentage wise (according to how many surrounding tiles are left).

 

The only problem I see with my idea is if the entire planet is claimed - but then again if you own an entire planet it should be damn hard to capture it.

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This idea maybe a wrong but if we change a little like i said, a central hub and sub hub it iwll be good , no ?
We should have 2 system: one is slow but safe, and other is fast but risk. I not complete agree with this idea but jsut a part of it.
:)

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3 hours ago, ShioriStein said:

This is nice idea. It will make an Org claim a planet faster. We should have 2 claim system, one is which NQ introduce, a claim hub any tile they want , this will make sure there land will safe even if one of the hub is destroy/capture and more secure but more expensive to their org to build and maintain. And the other is your idea, a central hub and sub hub which cheap(not so much cheap to prevent abusing) to capture around central hub but it depend and connect deeply to the central hub and this way make an Org capture/expand their land fast but with the risk lost all of them once the central hub is breaking down/ capture.
This is nice idea after all, NQ should add this into game, more way to play the game = more fun .
I will really want to see an Org collapse and disband because they lost their Capital ( central hub) =]]

ara ara, sorry i have misunderstanding some point, i only agree a part of his idea, that a central claim hub AND my idea that a claim beacon will be a central beacon with small claim beacon which cheaper than a claim beacon but have, to connect with a beacon as central to active mean around the central beacon.

sorry for that :)

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2 hours ago, Rick Windmiller said:

What if you surround one central territory with other territory units the central one gets a "defensive boost", like it draws power from the other surrounding ones to make it much harder to hack, capture or destroy? As such the core of the territory is by default harder to assault - but not impossible. this will force an attacker to start at the edges of the territory and creep in and as they capture/destroy as they advance, the core will lose its defensive boost, whether instantly or precentage wise (according to how many surrounding tiles are left).

 

The only problem I see with my idea is if the entire planet is claimed - but then again if you own an entire planet it should be damn hard to capture it.

 

3 hours ago, Lethys said:

If you surround your central tile, then it might not be possible to attack it (but obviously there always has to be a way to get to that - otherwise it would be broken

Watch the video, that's the plan for now

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surround to be strength ... seem nice.

but what it strength ( harder )? it just a claim beacon. dont tell me it will be some dual core unit so it stronger... nonsense =.= . 

we got shield/buble/dome for it and it just a claim beacon, not something that can stand by itself

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4 minutes ago, ShioriStein said:

surround to be strength ... seem nice.

but what it strength ( harder )? it just a claim beacon. dont tell me it will be some dual core unit so it stronger... nonsense =.= . 

we got shield/buble/dome for it and it just a claim beacon, not something that can stand by itself

No it doesn't get some buff. 

It's just not attackable as you first have to destroy the outer layer of control units.

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i dont think that can called a system, it just like you build wall when expand your land, they will have to destroy those wall to get in your main land, not different. It bring no benefit.

My idea a bit better, it bring more game play, way you expand. fast but risk, slow but sure .

remind you claim beacon like NQ said very expensive, a small Org cant obtain it in short time so do big org, and so central - sub will come in handy, small claim beacon which need connect to central also easy to get damage and weak(hp) than normal claim. it will still need balance but i have no better idea

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Well this got way more responses than I expected; Soooo, it seems like I should have specified in my idea that the central hub is intended to be extremely costly, it's not something an org can just place down over and over again at the same price. With each central hub an org or group places down, the next will rise exponentially in cost; so yes maybe late game after DU has been running for a couple years, its possible orgs could take over an entire planet in a few moments by this, but in the beginning the resources just to place subsequent central hubs should cost too much for entire planets to be claimed in minutes or hours. This could even be mitigated in the future by taking into account the total central hubs an org owns across multiple planets, so that mega orgs will continue to feel the loss of resources even say 5 years from now when they've built up their empire.

On 1/3/2018 at 7:52 AM, Ben Fargo said:

I completely disagree with this idea.  Claiming a planet should require claiming every tile on it.  It should be very difficult for even a very large organization to accomplish.  Of course an organization that controls most of a planet would probably have enough power to dominate anyone else on it, but they should not automatically control anything more than the tiles they have claimed.

Also, with this idea they would still need to claim every tile on it to gain "total control'. I don't believe anywhere in my post I said they would gain control over an entire planet simply by claiming parts of it. If you look at the visual representation the central hubs are indicated in dark pink, and the lighter pink the surrounding areas that an org has taken control of, all other remaining hexes that aren't colored represent tiles any other org or player could claim.

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On 1/3/2018 at 7:55 AM, Rick Windmiller said:

What if you surround one central territory with other territory units the central one gets a "defensive boost", like it draws power from the other surrounding ones to make it much harder to hack, capture or destroy? As such the core of the territory is by default harder to assault - but not impossible. this will force an attacker to start at the edges of the territory and creep in and as they capture/destroy as they advance, the core will lose its defensive boost, whether instantly or precentage wise (according to how many surrounding tiles are left).

 

The only problem I see with my idea is if the entire planet is claimed - but then again if you own an entire planet it should be damn hard to capture it.

I mean maybe, but depending on how big the DU devs make planets, the resources to simply do so would be ridiculous. Plus, with the current idea central hubs beacons and surrounding claim beacons would be just as easy to hack as the other, its just a matter of how many resources an org/player puts in to defenses. Thus the central hub should have the most defenses, not because of any surrounding tiles beacons, but rather because thats where the most turrets are.

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7 hours ago, Iskiox said:

Well this got way more responses than I expected; Soooo, it seems like I should have specified in my idea that the central hub is intended to be extremely costly, it's not something an org can just place down over and over again at the same price. With each central hub an org or group places down, the next will rise exponentially in cost; so yes maybe late game after DU has been running for a couple years, its possible orgs could take over an entire planet in a few moments by this, but in the beginning the resources just to place subsequent central hubs should cost too much for entire planets to be claimed in minutes or hours. This could even be mitigated in the future by taking into account the total central hubs an org owns across multiple planets, so that mega orgs will continue to feel the loss of resources even say 5 years from now when they've built up their empire.

Also, with this idea they would still need to claim every tile on it to gain "total control'. I don't believe anywhere in my post I said they would gain control over an entire planet simply by claiming parts of it. If you look at the visual representation the central hubs are indicated in dark pink, and the lighter pink the surrounding areas that an org has taken control of, all other remaining hexes that aren't colored represent tiles any other org or player could claim.

Your addition idea is good it make me want to add it to somepoint. My idea which change alittle from your idea that a central claim hub with small hub which only can claim surround area of central and so on. But to prevent a Org occupied a planet with only one central hub i suggest that the cost to maintain will add maintain cost for small claim hub will increase when more small claim connect to central until it is an enourmous number. example your first small claim hub will increase the maintain cost like 10, and next one will increase 13 , and next one will increase 16 , and next one will increase 21, and next will increase 26, and so on ... to some extent the cost to maintain will be rediculous make them to build another expensive central hub to expand. It just like a city with domain around under it control, the more land it control the more cost it is. So it will create for us a lot city when each central claim hub is a fortress .

 

:)

 

 

p.s: it is maintain cost = origin + 10 + 13 + 16 + 21 + 26 + ...

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I9n2Jl4.png

 

This reminds me of a lot of strategic games and some RPG's and MMO's . You control a Hex / land area and even if you do not control the lands connected to your hex / land it still falls under your sphere of influence ! This works great in strategic / tactical games and could be used to keep a rival organization from putting up a fortress near your cities or bases ! I know some or all ready thinking that might be to over powered but its really simple in that the  sphere of influence doesn't keep some one from building next to you but makes it very costly so now you say how do I get around that if I am a ally or contractor working for that organization ? The organization simple has a function in there world map where they can drop the sphere of influence for that adjacent hex or use a contract and rights type system so now you are part of there group while still being your own organization.    =)

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@Iskiox

 

Sorry, I missed a couple words when I read your post, which changed the meaning significantly.

 

Are you suggesting this would be a replacement for the current tile system or just another option?  I would not like to see it as a replacement, because it would make it more difficult for organizations with limited resources to claim just one tile.  If it was an option,  I do not see why anyone would choose it unless the overall cost of a core and its surrounding tiles was significantly less than getting the tiles individually.  The chance of losing several tiles by losing just one unit seems like a serious disadvantage compared to only losing one tile for each unit.

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13 hours ago, GunDeva said:

I9n2Jl4.png

 

This reminds me of a lot of strategic games and some RPG's and MMO's . You control a Hex / land area and even if you do not control the lands connected to your hex / land it still falls under your sphere of influence ! This works great in strategic / tactical games and could be used to keep a rival organization from putting up a fortress near your cities or bases ! I know some or all ready thinking that might be to over powered but its really simple in that the  sphere of influence doesn't keep some one from building next to you but makes it very costly so now you say how do I get around that if I am a ally or contractor working for that organization ? The organization simple has a function in there world map where they can drop the sphere of influence for that adjacent hex or use a contract and rights type system so now you are part of there group while still being your own 

nah that system still overpower and boring, why ? lets me say, the only thing you will do to farm resource day and night to upgrade it and because it cost so much so it will hard and balance right ? Nah , it will make the game boring as suck when all you have to do is grinding, Dev say they want to give us Emergent game play not grinding simulation game play. 

 

Why i say it is grinding game play? Because all you do is protect your central hub and grinding resource, nothing else. And protect one hub is easy than protect every tile I corret ? And from that it will make you so overpower by cower in your fortress. No emergent here.

 

Also the feeling of choose which position in side the tile to place your hub, tatic land, and build nice protect to your hub. This feeling cant have when you only got a central hub where you dont have to think about anything than protect your only hub and grinding.

 

Also it is overpower, because the only thing you can do to claim a land which central range have cover is attacking the central hub which of course all their mighty will gather there. Instead the more they expand the thiner their military force can cover, they all have to do is stick inside their fortress.

 

So that is why I only agree with one part of his idea is we should have a central claim hub but not expand by upgrade but have small claim hub connect to it to working normal or I say maintain.

 

I hope to hear your thought about it @GunDeva and also @Iskiox

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When they don't want a grind, they you need a way to gather / extract recources automatically. That doesn't necessarily mean get recources out of thin air, but that you can set up mining drills or automated quarrys, that gather recources you first need to locate.

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4 hours ago, Takao said:

When they don't want a grind, they you need a way to gather / extract recources automatically. That doesn't necessarily mean get recources out of thin air, but that you can set up mining drills or automated quarrys, that gather recources you first need to locate.

A game without grind is a blank screen.  Every game is a grind of some sort, it just differs on it’s form.  This games grinds will include among others traveling, defending against looters/pirates, looting/pirating, and mining.  They are all tasks you do more than once to meet some objective, and the process may or may not vary.  

 

My point is that it is impossible to make a game fun and engaging without some form of grind.  NQ would like to make the grind as fun as possible, but I believe have already stated that mining will be done by hand or at least by direct manipulation.  This seems to be an important aspect to them, and I don’t expect they’ll change it anytime soon.

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@Felonu

For me a "grind" is the repitition of a not fun process just for the sake of advancing through the game. If something is fun, then where is the problem of repeating it?

Staring at the ground and holding left mouse is not fun (for me).

Tryangulating ore deposits could be fun, couldn't tried it yet.

If you can measure the distance between constructs precisly, you can build mining drones, as long as there are mining drills / laser for constructs, which I'm sure will be.

So you would only need to manually mine at the beginning of your game, like in a survival game (at that stage it will most likely be a survival game for you...).

 

And if you can build mining drones, you can build mining stations. More expensive and stationary, but can be protected better.

 

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They said several times now that they don't want automatic mining stuff (ships, drills, drones). Upgraded Equipment? Maybe. But definitely no drilling ships as in SE.

 

Mining may not be fun for you (or me) but to others. There are hundreds and thousands of ppl in eve doing it to relax and there it's even more boring (to me). 

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