Nations vs Organizations

[Trigun]

knowing that the world or worlds will be ours to shape here, do any of you think that there will be Nations or cities that are structrued diffrently then your typcial organization with 1 or 2 legats. im thinking like full flegded democracy or something similar? i might be grasping at straws but what does everyone think? 

[Anaximander]

Nations... that's... romantic.

[Bella_Astrum]

There will be a nation. It will be called Astrum, and I will be it's Queen! *creepy laugh* 

 

In seriousness, I think it's possible that nations will be formed and ruled by more than 2 or so legate. 

 

Personally, I have very long term ambitions for a city, which would be a peaceful haven, and a war-free territory, and it's possible I'd want others to help with it, but sometimes power corrupts and it's best to keep the usual pyramid structure, at least for security reasons.

 

That said, maybe someone can start a Free People's organization where everyone has equal power and equal say in what happens. Could work, or perhaps it would be chaos, but who knows.

[Anaximander]

Sadly, in games like EVE, democracy went out the window real quick, real fast, in favor of a dictatorship system. The option was stil lthere for a voting enclave or a council, but people chose the dictatorship route because it solved many an issue. DUAL has some different approaches on its system though, which may mitigate the need for a dictator who can oversee everything below their station, like the in-game money account, to check people who suddendly got "paid off" or, putting it bluntly, got greased, in your organisation.

[Trigun]

lol the lady has spoken may it be so, long live the lady. i hear you though i was thinking like nations with there own ecnomies counter to that of the organizations just so you dont have a bunch of clans running around for no reason. give us a reason for a galactic counsil of nations!

[Kongou]

There are some nations forming.

 

I don't want to speak of anyone else's behalf but csyn is trying to pull off a kind of eu feel though I geuss that's not really a nation in itself. It's tough though we have allot to figure out still. Csyn itself isn't so much an nation or guild itself it's a collective broker.

Even so I've got a lot to learn and together a tough road ahead.

 

I have hopes to work with everyone for making cities in Alioth relative neutral zones after a while and possibly the space stations around it.

[CosmicDragon]

Setting up a government would be the easy part.  A nation would get interesting when the land or space you control starts being settled, by smaller organizations or single players. Why would I settle in your land when I can have my own?

[Wilks Checkov]

Have to remember some organizations or governments will not like you staking a sovereign claim in their systems. Then there are others that will not mind at all. As for settling land of your own - that will be a while as we will be stuck planet side for a good amount of time. 

[Trigun]

should we consider things like citizentionship, trade route passes EXT. if so what would the perks of those things be?

[CosmicDragon]

Citizenship could bring the land you control under the protection of a larger organization, in return for taxes or something.  Government controlled trade routes would be interesting, allowing a trade or logistics organization the has a headquarters in your territory to use stargates you have built, or whatever the land equivalent would be, some type of super-highway. All depends on the size of the nation and how many people it has supporting it, and how strong it's allies are.  You can't enforce your law if you have only three guys and there one man fighters.  If you think about the three territories they will control, vs the 20 tiles that the larger corporations will have it's hard to think of a reason (besides RP, of course) that the corporation will need the nation.

[Trigun]

i like that idea, The living ecnomy has to be able to stand on it own merit though. there has to be needs and wants.

[Halo381]

Have to remember some organizations or governments will not like you staking a sovereign claim in their systems. Then there are others that will not mind at all. As for settling land of your own - that will be a while as we will be stuck planet side for a good amount of time. 

 

Methinks it'd be rather difficult to enforce one's rule upon an entire system, depending on how determined the enemy is. They could just bypass the SG and take the week long trip to warp in, then settle on the backside of some obscure planet/asteroid. I don't think scanners that can survey the entire system at once should be a thing, which means comm buoys would become a thing, and methinks that might get expensive, thus making the "owner" of the system not have the funds or not want to spend the funds to put them up.

 

 

 

i like that idea, The living ecnomy has to be able to stand on it own merit though. there has to be needs and wants.

 

I'd say that depends upon the resources the nation has, and the resources a particular corporation needs. For example: say Uranium is super duper rare and extremely useful. One prospective nation comes along and finds a massive vein of the stuff underground. Now, they've gained the potential to become a nation, since Uranium trading is lucrative, and they control the largest source. Now they have to fulfill two requirements for powerful-ish organizations to settle under their rule: 

 

They must be able to defend their territory aptly, or organizations would see them as weak and never deign to fall under their rule

 

They must have a reasonable tax on the product they hold, otherwise no one will want to spend a heinous amount for only a little bit of Uranium

 

If they can get these two things down and done, they can get the backing of powerful organizations so long as the retain control over that material. Singular players may also join up, though the tax would prolly have to be lowered for them; their pockets aren't quite as deep as a full fledged organization.

[Trigun]

i like the general ideas, another question though where does the little guy stand. the induvidual  whats there stake in the nations v organizations, clearly their funds wont be as much ( or shouldnt be at least ) as the former. is there a reason to not join a nation or orgnization? 

[Anaximander]

Methinks it'd be rather difficult to enforce one's rule upon an entire system, depending on how determined the enemy is. They could just bypass the SG and take the week long trip to warp in, then settle on the backside of some obscure planet/asteroid. I don't think scanners that can survey the entire system at once should be a thing, which means comm buoys would become a thing, and methinks that might get expensive, thus making the "owner" of the system not have the funds or not want to spend the funds to put them up.

 

 

 

 

I'd say that depends upon the resources the nation has, and the resources a particular corporation needs. For example: say Uranium is super duper rare and extremely useful. One prospective nation comes along and finds a massive vein of the stuff underground. Now, they've gained the potential to become a nation, since Uranium trading is lucrative, and they control the largest source. Now they have to fulfill two requirements for powerful-ish organizations to settle under their rule: 

 

They must be able to defend their territory aptly, or organizations would see them as weak and never deign to fall under their rule

 

They must have a reasonable tax on the product they hold, otherwise no one will want to spend a heinous amount for only a little bit of Uranium

 

If they can get these two things down and done, they can get the backing of powerful organizations so long as the retain control over that material. Singular players may also join up, though the tax would prolly have to be lowered for them; their pockets aren't quite as deep as a full fledged organization.

I think you undeestimate the power of Orbital Bombardments good sir.

[CosmicDragon]

i like the general ideas, another question though where does the little guy stand. the induvidual  whats there stake in the nations v organizations, clearly their funds wont be as much ( or shouldnt be at least ) as the former. is there a reason to not join a nation or orgnization? 

Besides not agreeing with their ideals, from a purely gaming standpoint then things like tax rate, war status, allies list, political structure, positioning in the known cluster, just a few reasons why a player wouldn't want to join a specific organization, but in general not joining any organization has no specific upside that I can think of.  An individual can still be a resident of a nation's territory without the agreement differing to much from what an organization would sign.

[Tbabz17]

the biggest thing involving nations is can we get enough people backing one? many above have stated that nobody is going to want to join a group of three guys with no actual power. if we want to get a nation started were going to need to get a large group together labeled as an organization. th ecommuntiy cite already has a few, their just very small some with only one person

[CosmicDragon]

It is still early, more people will come.  Also we have to think about the which "political arena" you want to be part of.  A nation that holds a few cities on one continent of one planet, aren't going to need as many people has a interstellar nation, having cities on multiple planets in multiple star systems, with space stations to boot is going to take more people to enforce.

[Dhara]

I believe that this will happen naturally, over time.   I see smaller groups living near each other in peace setting up alliances so they can all help keep each other safe.  As time moves on, these will eventually evolve into nations.

[Wilks Checkov]

I believe that this will happen naturally, over time.   I see smaller groups living near each other in peace setting up alliances so they can all help keep each other safe.  As time moves on, these will eventually evolve into nations.

Could not have said it any better myself. 

 

 

Even if some of us are trying to make it happen sooner rather than later. 

[Trigun]

We want it now!,,

[Warden]

Small nations that at the same time try to appear big without any RP context seem a bit silly to me. Usually when you hear of nation or government, you tend to think of something larger. I advise something different for starters if they are on their own unless they can expect steady growth until release.

 

I see nothing against starting with a different concept and smaller until the numbers are actually there. Example: instead of "Nation XY", start with "Sovereign Colony (or colonies) (of) XY and grow from here. Or, heck, start with a city-state.

 

Of course, trying to create or spearhead nations in an early phase is understandable, but good luck trying to fill all these positions "naturally" until emergent gameplay is a thing.

[Dominar]

The DUA is already a good example. We are a nation type faction and plan on having an entire Government in place.