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1: We'll have to see how crucial the implants are.

2: Pirate is a loose term in DU - there really is no "pirate code".

Players can try to make ransom part of the emergent activities, but I would never support it. Dunno how many other players will be stupid enough or lazy enough to support it.
All kinds of ways to subvert ransoms: not wearing implants or only wearing easily replaceable implants is one strategy.

Your example of the ship captain just seems silly to me, but that's because I would refuse the ransom at all costs. If I'm the captain, I would just let the other player kill me if there was no way to escape. Or I would suicide if that would prevent the other player from looting my corpse. Doesn't matter what I lose as long as the other player isn't rewarded for ransom attempts.
And if it's that easy to succumb to ransoms while recouping lost implants is too tedious, then I won't play DU, just like I don't play Eve. 

 

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1: We'll have to see how crucial the implants are.

2: Pirate is a loose term in DU - there really is no "pirate code".

 

Players can try to make ransom part of the emergent activities, but I would never support it. Dunno how many other players will be stupid enough or lazy enough to support it.

All kinds of ways to subvert ransoms: not wearing implants or only wearing easily replaceable implants is one strategy.

 

Your example of the ship captain just seems silly to me, but that's because I would refuse the ransom at all costs. If I'm the captain, I would just let the other player kill me if there was no way to escape. Or I would suicide if that would prevent the other player from looting my corpse. Doesn't matter what I lose as long as the other player isn't rewarded for ransom attempts.

And if it's that easy to succumb to ransoms while recouping lost implants is too tedious, then I won't play DU, just like I don't play Eve. 

 

 

Cheap-plants is a viable tactic. It's their long-haul usage that's hindered if they are lost. And trust me, losing a +10 bonues on a skill's primary stat by losing an implant. means that skill trains 30% slower - and some skills take 7 days worth of training to get from 4 to 5, and that's if you have tuned your toon to the primary stats for the skill required (something that you only allow to do so every half  a year or so in EVE).

 

The example "if it takes time, I won't do it", is though, very silly. You put implants on, especially expensive ones, people will be putting bounties on you just to piss you off when they are lost. What? Should ounty hunters be banned in the game? Maybe give anyone who wears REALLY expensive assets like implants, a free pass in the bounty system? Now you begin to understand where assassins come into play. You put bounty's on a faction's capital ship captains' heads, you take out any and all leadership boni they may get fro mthe implants (lower locking timers, faster tracking of turrets, etcetera, it's still an MMO RPG :P ) . Now, you got assassins playing a role, like hindering a faction's leadership before a major battle. Cloak and dagger stuff ;)

 

In EVE, there's a golden rule : "don't fly what you can't afford to lose", that extends to clones with implants on them (bligy pods).

 

Putting implants on, is like popping a lightsaber in SWG before the NGE, where Jedi took a long period to be trained in it and could lose everythign if killed. Sure, it's not the same, tedious process, it's the monetary cost that makes implants a reason to pay ransom.

 

As Lethys said once : "Once, I only flew 10 million worth of a ships in PvP, nowadays in don't care if I lose my 10 billion Carrier, I know how to make money". 

 

So, if you figure out how to make money, you are solid. People who usually pay ransoms, are people who don't know how to make money. And no, being a batttleship comamnder in a war, correlates - and SHOULD corrleate - to the ability of said person to command a lot of people to fight as a cohesive unit, it does not correlate with their ability to play the market, that's the logistics division job, not the battleship commander's job.. So yeah, the guy may have implants that cost a lot for him and his alliance's leaders may not reimburse him on those very expensive implants. 

 

And you know, if he's a battleship commander in DU - unlike in EVE, where any tool can get into a dreadnaught given training time and their own pocket's money - would have intelligence to share (since battleships take a lot of people to fly, nobody would put a guy they don't trust in charge of a lot of people) and in return, captors don't shoot him. Then it's a ticking clock, the prisoner's side agrees to reimburse the commander's implants (by making a contractual delivery to him) or they risk the guy selling them off if the other side is making a better offer to him - aside from the whole "we won't blow your pretty toon up and kiss your implants goodbye".

 

That's Emergent and it's something that actually can make for far better stories in-game than whattever script a person wrote and programmers coded into the game for NPCs to say and do. If EVE has something going for it, is its player-driven constant warfare and DU should have that. That's some high quality drama I tell you. :P

 

If your problem is the human interaction on the game... then, I don't know, it's a sandbox MMO. Sadly, there are people who ask for rnasoms. I like salvaging, so I never ask for ransom anyways. My only advice would be to only fly your expensive starfighter or single-seater ship within safe regions, not the frontier, it's the only way to avoid people who would ask for rnasom that way.

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If players put bounties on me to attack my expensive implants, I simply wouldn't wear expensive implants.
My main character in WoW only wore starting rags. The only armor she was allowed to use was jewelry.
What's silly is supporting players who want to grief people in the manner you suggest.

 

People can ask for ransoms all they want. I won't pay them.

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If players put bounties on me to attack my expensive implants, I simply wouldn't wear expensive implants.

My main character in WoW only wore starting rags. The only armor she was allowed to use was jewelry.

What's silly is supporting players who want to grief people in the manner you suggest.

... I am really wondering if you're trolling at this point o.O

 

 

The thing is, bounties will be placed indiscriminately. Why? Because reasons. A pirate will get a bounty for being a pain in the ass, and an industrialist would get targeted because "screw that guy, making mad banks with his monopoly on spaceships in the sector". That's just hw it is, it's a sandbox. Griefing is not the same as harrassment. Having someone put a bounty on you that requires you to be killed 10 or 100 times over to be depleted, thus, people having no reward for killing you, is just emergent gameplay.

 

Heck, I would put a bounty on me with an alt, just so I can have aspiring and upcoming badboy xXx_B0bb4_F3tt_xXx come after me. I mean, why go out for PvP, when I can have silly little bounty hunters come after me, which I can ransom or they can ransom me, with me paying them extra via contract, for killing the person who put up a kill contract on my head to begin with. Weirder things have happened in EVE, like, a weaker alliance being bought out from attacking a larger alliance as that larger aliance was at war, and even having that smaller alliance being outsourced to wage war against the other large alliance. That's ransoming for you. It goes a long way.

 

My suggestion still stands though, you need to be part of a crew if you go into frontier space, don't get with you expensive things like implants. Same goes for being stranded, if you go into uncharted territories, you should expect to have to possibly deal with strangers. Like, what if you end up without fuel and the only person with fuel in the region, starts bargaining for extra money out of you? He's not a pirate or a griefer, he's just a guy who capitalises on your need at this moment, selling you fuel for ten times its price on the market - which you don't got access to, becuase no fuel and no marketplace nearby. What then? That person is clearly ransoming you. Would you forfeit the game in its entirety because you can't accept the fact people capitalise on opportunities, like a stranded player in the middle of nowhere, desperate for fuel?

 

That's the kind of mentality I can't understnad by many people, who want to be pirates, but don't want to be at the receiving end of things.

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People are forgetting that you have to get to the target location before the Stargate can be opened. Faster than light travel will be an option, and it will be the only way to place the Stargate at the other end. If they made it to the solar system using FTL transportation, they will most likely be able to make it back, even if it means rebuilding a bit. I don't think it will be a problem. Plus I'm sure the Stargate owners would make an effort to rebuild on their side.

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1: We'll have to see how crucial the implants are.

2: Pirate is a loose term in DU - there really is no "pirate code".

 

Players can try to make ransom part of the emergent activities, but I would never support it. Dunno how many other players will be stupid enough or lazy enough to support it.

All kinds of ways to subvert ransoms: not wearing implants or only wearing easily replaceable implants is one strategy.

 

Your example of the ship captain just seems silly to me, but that's because I would refuse the ransom at all costs. If I'm the captain, I would just let the other player kill me if there was no way to escape. Or I would suicide if that would prevent the other player from looting my corpse. Doesn't matter what I lose as long as the other player isn't rewarded for ransom attempts.

And if it's that easy to succumb to ransoms while recouping lost implants is too tedious, then I won't play DU, just like I don't play Eve. 

 

 

 

It really depends on the stats of those implants and how much money you make on the market.

That quote of mine still stands true: if you make billions and billions with 5h work on the market at some point and those high-extreme-greater-gunnery-implants+20 only cost 1bil - who cares if you lose them

If you're only able to make 50mil per hour - it's another story to be told here. Then you care not to die IF you buy those (I wouldn't cause I will die. Oh I will die a lot). So either you don't buy them OR you see to your protection.

 

And there is yet ANOTHER story to be told: what if some kind of implants allow you to train faster? There may be the cheap ones which save you some days and the really expensive ones save you a month of training time. Tough choice to make here (decisions and gameplay ftw \o/ ): will you risk those implants? will you just buy those +3 and don't care for the +20 because you die frequently? Will you perhaps change your playstyle a bit (full reckless pirate to some more thoughtful, tactical one) in order to use and not lose those shiny implants?

 

You are free to choose, whether you take the risks or not. IF you take them, you gotta live with the consequences (in your case: die and lose everything). You can't have the best implants, train as fast as the shinkansen (come on, that one was good!) and expect not to die or held ransom. Choices, choices, choices

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Putting bounties on people just to piss people off when they are lost -which is what Twerkmotor wrote- is griefing.
Sandbox is irrelevant. Griefing is harassment just for the sake of harassment.
What you may mean to say is that bounties != griefing.

In my experience, players are greedy. I don't pay players. I certainly don't pay players "extra" money.
I expect, if I needed fuel desperately needed fuel, I would purchase fuel from the shop. Or I would wait for a friend to help. Or I would wait for an alt to help.

 

How much money I can make in-game per hour is irrelevant.
Dual Universe is not a race - training faster is irrelevant..especially when the alternative is supporting extortion.

I will never change my playstyle to support extortion. I simply wouldn't play DU if push came to shove.
Any choice is better than supporting extortion.

I don't have to have the best implants - as I said, my main in WoW only had starting rags. Unique appearance is more important than uber armor.

 

Yes. I would forfeit the game in its entirety if the game allows players to be dicks. Just as I do with Eve and Elite Dangerous.
 

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Putting bounties on people just to piss people off -which is what Twerkmotor wrote- is griefing.

Sandbox is irrelevant. Griefing is harassment just for the sake of harassment.

What you may mean to say is that bounties != griefing.

 

In my experience, players are greedy. I don't pay players. I certainly don't pay players "extra" money.

I expect, if I needed fuel, I would purchase fuel from the shop.

How much money I can make in-game per hour is irrelevant.

Dual Universe is not a race - training faster is irrelevant..especially when the alternative is supporting extortion.

I will never change my playstyle to support extortion. I simply wouldn't play DU if push came to shove.

Any choice is better than supporting extortion.

 

I don't have to have the best implants - as I said, my main in WoW only had starting rags. Unique appearance is more important than uber armor.

 

Yes. I would forfeit the game in its entirety if the game allows players to be dicks. Just as I do with Eve and Elite Dangerous.

 

Griefing != harassment. Their definitions are not the same. You can say they are, but griefing does not call for the Devs to get involved (whereas irl harassment does). You will have to place bounties ask for others to help you or you yourself must act to rid you of the pest. Also, would you forfeit real life because people are dicks there too?

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Griefing is harassment and does call for devs to get involved.

Bounties do not inherently equal griefing.

 

I don't get griefed in real life. Laws prevent that for the most part.
Pain and jail and permadeath, etc... work as deterrents that tend to be absent from games.
But, I would move from an area in which I could be repeatedly griefed. Yes.

 

Who, in their right mind, plays at a park with a sandbox where you have to pay people to stop them from destroying your sandcastle?

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Griefing is harassment and does call for devs to get involved.

Bounties do not inherently equal griefing.

 

I don't get griefed in real life. Laws prevent that for the most part.

Pain and jail and permadeath, etc... work as deterrents that tend to be absent from games.

But, I would move from an area in which I could be repeatedly griefed. Yes.

So if some pirate gang were to continuously attack the same convoy again and again, you would say that the devs need to get involved (rather than the local police force, who would otherwise be sitting on their asses)? This event does cause grief (in you due to lost revenue and insurance/rebuild costs), therefore they are griefing (causing grief), therefore they are harassing (unless those terms are two separate things...).

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Putting bounties on people just to piss people off when they are lost -which is what Twerkmotor wrote- is griefing.

Sandbox is irrelevant. Griefing is harassment just for the sake of harassment.

What you may mean to say is that bounties != griefing.

 

In my experience, players are greedy. I don't pay players. I certainly don't pay players "extra" money.

I expect, if I needed fuel desperately needed fuel, I would purchase fuel from the shop. Or I would wait for a friend to help. Or I would wait for an alt to help.

 

How much money I can make in-game per hour is irrelevant.

Dual Universe is not a race - training faster is irrelevant..especially when the alternative is supporting extortion.

I will never change my playstyle to support extortion. I simply wouldn't play DU if push came to shove.

Any choice is better than supporting extortion.

 

I don't have to have the best implants - as I said, my main in WoW only had starting rags. Unique appearance is more important than uber armor.

 

Yes. I would forfeit the game in its entirety if the game allows players to be dicks. Just as I do with Eve and Elite Dangerous.

 

Good luck with anything you do then with the attitude of "I quit the game because I can't be protected from anyone".

 

DU is a sandbox MMO, WoW is a theme park MMO.

 

Profiteering, cartelisation, price fixing, bubble schemes. frauds and scams, all are part of the game. Nobody will protect you from all those things. Extortion and ransom is one part of it. A larger alliance, can extort a manufacturing org for protection money (although it's stupid to do so, but w/e ) while that same manufacturing organisation can elect to "cook the books" by selling in a black market and via a dummy coproration to avoid paying the larger alliance its true share of their "agreement", you know, how real life shakedowns go down. Mobster aks for money, the extortee cooks the books, shows smaller profits, pays less.

 

Same goes for ransom. Strike a conversation, you may end up being paid money for being not a dick. It's how it goes down in EVE usually. You act maturely, you are rewarded. You start cussing after being intercepted, the other guys will just blow you out of the sky.

 

Ransoms are not any different than what piracy is, it's just conversational than the simple thought process of "blow enemy ship, get loot, rinse repeat".

 

Emergent Gameplay and Activities, involves all of those examples so far. If you don't like combat or don't want risk at all, then just be a builder, this is not EVE, you don't have to actually go out into the darkness of space to mine, you can just stay on a planet, be a top-notc builder (something I heard you are) and just be known that way. Zero interactions with pirates, no risk of running into a rnasom situation in space by being interdicted. It's what safezones are for, for people who don't want that part of the game. And hey, if you are rich enough by selling your constructs, like houses or buildings or w/e, you could be hiring an armored Uber ship to get you wherever you want. I mean, they pay collateral for delivering you, so if they don't do take you to your location (within a certain time-frame), they will pay YOU money, so, it's GG.

 

 

Without those "dicks" there are not bad guys in the game, there's no infamy and there's no player-driven content.

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Griefing is harassment and does call for devs to get involved.

Bounties do not inherently equal griefing.

 

I don't get griefed in real life. Laws prevent that for the most part.

Pain and jail and permadeath, etc... work as deterrents that tend to be absent from games.

But, I would move from an area in which I could be repeatedly griefed. Yes.

 

Who, in their right mind, plays at a park with a sandbox where you have to pay people to stop them from destroying your sandcastle?

Killing you 10000000 times, becauese there's a contract on your head and pays well, means I am doing my job as a bounty hunter. 

 

Sendin you 10000000 messages with colourful words, is harrassment.

 

There's a distinct difference.

 

If you played WoW, griefing includes things like the infamous "Dirge Spam", of people linking that pos epic item into the trade chat, and switching every noun or verb with Dirge. That's spam, trolling and griefing, since people can't use the trade chat for its intented purpose. What did the Blizzard Admins do? Nothing, the Auction house is just around the corner.

 

In PvP servers, people would gank you time and time again if you were farming on their spot - I was one of those gankers. What did the admins do?

 

Nothing. "It's an Open PVP server" would tell you, thus, it was griefing, but not really the admins' problem.

 

Sending death threats to a raid leader - that raid leader was me at one point - because he didn't favor your GF who's top-notch geared, over the guy who hasn't gotten loot for the last 2 months? Yeah, that's harrassment and that gal got perma-banned.

 

That's the distinction between griefing and harrassment. Ganking, I can take, it's part of the game I signed up for, harrassment is not.

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420xxxDrAgOnMaStErxxx: FUCKING HACKER REPORTED FOR GRIEFING!!!11!!1!

Basically Everyone Else with Logic: What?

420xxxDrAgOnMaStErxxx: OGMGMGGMGMGMGMGMGMGGM

 

 

Note that everyone is confused except for Mr. 420xxxDrAgOnMaStErxxx. He is the definition of a "casul scumm".

Remember: If it goes physical and/or highly insulting, that is griefing. We don't report people playing FPS Shooting Games, do we?

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420xxxDrAgOnMaStErxxx: FUCKING HACKER REPORTED FOR GRIEFING!!!11!!1!

Basically Everyone Else with Logic: What?

420xxxDrAgOnMaStErxxx: OGMGMGGMGMGMGMGMGMGGM

 

 

Note that everyone is confused except for Mr. 420xxxDrAgOnMaStErxxx. He is the definition of a "casul scumm".

Remember: If it goes physical and/or highly insulting, that is griefing. We don't report people playing FPS Shooting Games, do we?

Griefing is being trolled on a CoD lobby. Harrassment is the guy sending you messages 24/7 saying "I will gut your dog and steal your kids".  Harrassment is the problem.

 

Griefing is trolls putting a label outside your factory advertising a rival factory's prices and the such.

 

BUT, if trolls set a giant sign with your phone number outside your factory, that's harrassment.

 

Quite the difference I'd say.

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Putting bounties on people just to piss people off when they are lost -which is what Twerkmotor wrote- is griefing.

Sandbox is irrelevant. Griefing is harassment just for the sake of harassment.

What you may mean to say is that bounties != griefing.

 

In my experience, players are greedy. I don't pay players. I certainly don't pay players "extra" money.

I expect, if I needed fuel desperately needed fuel, I would purchase fuel from the shop. Or I would wait for a friend to help. Or I would wait for an alt to help.

 

How much money I can make in-game per hour is irrelevant.

Dual Universe is not a race - training faster is irrelevant..especially when the alternative is supporting extortion.

I will never change my playstyle to support extortion. I simply wouldn't play DU if push came to shove.

Any choice is better than supporting extortion.

 

I don't have to have the best implants - as I said, my main in WoW only had starting rags. Unique appearance is more important than uber armor.

 

Yes. I would forfeit the game in its entirety if the game allows players to be dicks. Just as I do with Eve and Elite Dangerous.

 

That's not what I said. No One forces you to get those implants. No One said they were necessary. But IF you do want them because of a much faster training time, then you WILL think twice before you exit a safe zone and you PERHAPS pay a ransom. If you don't pay - live with the consequences.

 

If you choose to never ever pay ransom, your choice. Fair enough. No One forces you to do so. We just said that it's a perfectly valid tactic, if someone doesn't want to lose his 34644 billion credit implant

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So if some pirate gang were to continuously attack the same convoy again and again, you would say that the devs need to get involved (rather than the local police force, who would otherwise be sitting on their asses)? This event does cause grief (in you due to lost revenue and insurance/rebuild costs), therefore they are griefing (causing grief), therefore they are harassing (unless those terms are two separate things...).

Doesn't have to be a "pirate gang" - anyone relentlessly attacking the same group of players simply to cause them grief is inherently griefing.

Devs step in when other players grief other players. Not all devs/games agree on the specifics of what constitutes griefing and what is fair play.

Some games allow corpse camping as fair play, other games consider corpse camping to be griefing and will penalize corpse campers.

 

In DU, it's not particularly easy to relentlessly attack the same convoy again and again due to the mechanics of safe zones and respawning at resurrection nodes.

Based on the implementation of safe zones and the mechanics of resurrection nodes - I expect the devs will step in if they determine that people are harassing other players simply to piss them off.

 

 

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Doesn't have to be a "pirate gang" - anyone relentlessly attacking the same group of players simply to cause them grief is inherently griefing.

Devs step in when other players grief other players. Not all devs/games agree on the specifics of what constitutes griefing and what is fair play.

Some games allow corpse camping as fair play, other games consider corpse camping to be griefing and will penalize corpse campers.

 

In DU, it's not particularly easy to relentlessly attack the same convoy again and again due to the mechanics of safe zones and respawning at resurrection nodes.

Based on the implementation of safe zones and the mechanics of resurrection nodes - I expect the devs will step in if they determine that people are harassing other players simply to piss them off.

 

The real question is, how do you know they are causing grief for the sake of causing grief? Their 'Griefing' may just be a by-product of their activities rather than harassment. The victims in question may just be very nice targets all the time. The Devs have admitted that there will be griefing in the game, but if it spills over into real life, it becomes unacceptable and they will then take action.

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The real question is, how do you know they are causing grief for the sake of causing grief? Their 'Griefing' may just be a by-product of their activities rather than harassment. The victims in question may just be very nice targets all the time. The Devs have admitted that there will be griefing in the game, but if it spills over into real life, it becomes unacceptable and they will then take action.

Agree with you 100%.

Sad how people will go that extent just to ruin a person's life who fought somebody.

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Good luck with anything you do then with the attitude of "I quit the game because I can't be protected from anyone".

 

DU is a sandbox MMO, WoW is a theme park MMO.

 

Profiteering, cartelisation, price fixing, bubble schemes. frauds and scams, all are part of the game. Nobody will protect you from all those things. Extortion and ransom is one part of it. A larger alliance, can extort a manufacturing org for protection money (although it's stupid to do so, but w/e ) while that same manufacturing organisation can elect to "cook the books" by selling in a black market and via a dummy coproration to avoid paying the larger alliance its true share of their "agreement", you know, how real life shakedowns go down. Mobster aks for money, the extortee cooks the books, shows smaller profits, pays less.

 

Same goes for ransom. Strike a conversation, you may end up being paid money for being not a dick. It's how it goes down in EVE usually. You act maturely, you are rewarded. You start cussing after being intercepted, the other guys will just blow you out of the sky.

 

Ransoms are not any different than what piracy is, it's just conversational than the simple thought process of "blow enemy ship, get loot, rinse repeat".

 

Emergent Gameplay and Activities, involves all of those examples so far. If you don't like combat or don't want risk at all, then just be a builder, this is not EVE, you don't have to actually go out into the darkness of space to mine, you can just stay on a planet, be a top-notch builder (something I heard you are) and just be known that way. Zero interactions with pirates, no risk of running into a rnasom situation in space by being interdicted. It's what safezones are for, for people who don't want that part of the game. And hey, if you are rich enough by selling your constructs, like houses or buildings or w/e, you could be hiring an armored Uber ship to get you wherever you want. I mean, they pay collateral for delivering you, so if they don't do take you to your location (within a certain time-frame), they will pay YOU money, so, it's GG.

 

 

Without those "dicks" there are not bad guys in the game, there's no infamy and there's no player-driven content.

1: In DU, I can be protected. That's what safe zones are for. And I plan to focus on establishing and maintaining safe zones in the frontier.

2: Sandbox != anything goes. Which is why safe zones exist and why the resurrection nodes are designed as they are.

Again, just because there is a sandbox in a park doesn't mean that people are allowed to extort protection payment to prevent others from knocking over your sandcastle.

Players can try to implement profiteering and price-fixing, bubble schemas, frauds and scams. That doesn't mean they will be successful.

I can protect myself from those things by not supporting or participating in those activities. People can try to extort ransoms from me all they wish. I refuse to participate.

 

If a mobster tried to extort money from me -push come to shove- I would close my business, move and report them to the police.

In DU, we might strike a conversation. If someone wants to give me money for whatever, I would probably accept the money. I would never ask a player for a ransom. Nor would I ever pay a player a ransom. I'm not going to support extortion - in game or out of game. I do not consider the gameplay of Eve or Elite Dangerous to be "mature gameplay" - quite the opposite.

If the extortionist wishes to blow me out of the sky, they can blow me out of the sky - because I'm not going to pay them any money not to.

 

3: Ransoms != piracy

Piracy may or may not include attempts to ransom.

 

4: Attempting to ransom, etc, may be emergent gameplay... if enough players succumb to the extortion and allow such gameplay to emerge. All I've said is that it's silly to allow other players extort funds from you. If you let people extort funds from you, that's not griefing... it's just your choice.

 

5: In DU, there's a wide variety of ways to explore the vastness of space and avoid combat besides staying in safe zones. (I'm not a voxelmancer, I'm just a carebear Explorer). Also, a variety of ways to subvert extortionists. You've listed several methods, yourself.

 

6: Also, in DU, there will likely also be other ways to make yourself a valuable asset in ways that will preclude extortion and ransoms. What skills do you have to offer? Are you considered to be neutral because of your specialized skills or knowledge? Are you considered to be off-limits because you have ties with powerful allies?

 

7: Bringing this back to the original post...

Because I am an Explorer, first and foremost, blowing up the jumpgate would mostly be inconsequential to me. I'd be happy to explore the new star system while waiting for a new jumpgate to be built. Especially true if I have a resurrection node hidden in the new star system. I'd be having a grand time gathering and relaying discoveries about the new worlds to my friends via channels outside of the game. Star systems should be vast enough that it's not easy to find a lone ship or a lone player in a new system after resurrection... DU's resurrection mechanics makes harassing one player or one ship difficult.

 

8: Characters can easily be "bad guys" without griefing other players.

 

 

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The real question is, how do you know they are causing grief for the sake of causing grief? Their 'Griefing' may just be a by-product of their activities rather than harassment. The victims in question may just be very nice targets all the time. The Devs have admitted that there will be griefing in the game, but if it spills over into real life, it becomes unacceptable and they will then take action.

That's what devs help determine.

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Killing you 10000000 times, becauese there's a contract on your head and pays well, means I am doing my job as a bounty hunter. 

 

Sendin you 10000000 messages with colourful words, is harrassment.

 

There's a distinct difference.

 

If you played WoW, griefing includes things like the infamous "Dirge Spam", of people linking that pos epic item into the trade chat, and switching every noun or verb with Dirge. That's spam, trolling and griefing, since people can't use the trade chat for its intented purpose. What did the Blizzard Admins do? Nothing, the Auction house is just around the corner.

 

In PvP servers, people would gank you time and time again if you were farming on their spot - I was one of those gankers. What did the admins do?

 

Nothing. "It's an Open PVP server" would tell you, thus, it was griefing, but not really the admins' problem.

 

Sending death threats to a raid leader - that raid leader was me at one point - because he didn't favor your GF who's top-notch geared, over the guy who hasn't gotten loot for the last 2 months? Yeah, that's harrassment and that gal got perma-banned.

 

That's the distinction between griefing and harrassment. Ganking, I can take, it's part of the game I signed up for, harrassment is not.

I don't have to use the trade channel. I can easily ignore the trade channel. All kinds of ways to trade without ever using the trade channel. Especially using the Auction House. I don't understand why anyone would consider childish spamming griefing. Plenty of other channels to interact with other players besides in-game chat. And, again, that's what an ignore list is for.

 

People gank on PvP servers all the time. Hence, PvE servers. On PvP servers, ganking is not griefing. On PvE servers, ganking is not possible.

What happens to people who grief RPers on RP servers??

Griefing is a form of harassment. Not all harassment is griefing.

Death threats to players rather than characters is both griefing and harassment.

 

 

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That's not what I said. No One forces you to get those implants. No One said they were necessary. But IF you do want them because of a much faster training time, then you WILL think twice before you exit a safe zone and you PERHAPS pay a ransom. If you don't pay - live with the consequences.

 

If you choose to never ever pay ransom, your choice. Fair enough. No One forces you to do so. We just said that it's a perfectly valid tactic, if someone doesn't want to lose his 34644 billion credit implant

You didn't say that. Twerkmotor said it.

 

1: Twerkmoter asserted that we lose everything when we resurrect, which isn't quite true. 

"You respawn but your inventory will be randomly losing most items, as it is impossible to insure that the particular branch of the universe where you are now has the same past history as the one you come from."

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/20-devblog-resurrection-node-mechanics/

 

2: I said: "I don't care how expensive regaining inventory is - I would happily spend days regathering inventory or quit the game before paying a ransom to another player. There is nothing in a game worth supporting the concept of ransom to another player. Nothing."

 

3: People who are unwilling to pay ransoms will either live with the consequences or quit playing. Of course.

 

4: I agreed that attempting to ransom is a valid tactic. I just find acquiescing and supporting that tactic to be silly. It encourages players to continue bad behavior. 

 

5: This tack basically started when people stated they would suicide to teleport away. Twerkmotor scoffed at the notion.

But, really, it's just a matter of different priorities and playstyles. We don't all have the same values.

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I don't have to use the trade channel. I can easily ignore the trade channel. All kinds of ways to trade without ever using the trade channel. Especially using the Auction House. I don't understand why anyone would consider childish spamming griefing. Plenty of other channels to interact with other players besides in-game chat. And, again, that's what an ignore list is for.

 

People gank on PvP servers all the time. Hence, PvE servers. On PvP servers, ganking is not griefing. On PvE servers, ganking is not possible.

What happens to people who grief RPers on RP servers??

Griefing is a form of harassment. Not all harassment is griefing.

Death threats to players rather than characters is both griefing and harassment.

 

 

I have been banned for a week in WoW, because I parked my Mammoth mount on the Dalaran Fountain.

 

Yes, I know.

 

Thing is, the Devs have said that harrassment they will bring the ban hammer down on, griefing is sometihng very very loose in a sandbox game.

 

You got to accept that in a game with no NPCs, the villains will be the players.

 

Also, if your thing is RP, then sure, set up rules in your territory, saying "no OOC allowed", f someone starts OOCing, then just kick them out of your territory. It's that simple. You got the option in DU. 

 

You plan on living in a safezone around Arkships? Good. You can, nobody prevents you doing so (provided you keep up the upkeep for it).

 

But you can't say "I want to be a pirate, but I want piracy to be clean, you know? Like, no pirate cutthroat tactics and backstabs and all that. I also want to have an organisation that's successful, but I don't want the hate that comes along with being successful, thus bing better than most, you know?"

 

You want to be big in DU? Prepare for things like backstabings, espionage, sabotage and the whole nine yards. What? Should the Devs provide you with an IP tracking software for your organisation so you can tell if the new guy is me trying to infiltrate?

 

It is a matter of playstyle, which is why the Safezones exist. If you don't want to deal with the dakrer part of the community in the form of pirates and griefers, stay in a safezone, it's a sandbox game, you can always choose to be a pacifist (unlike in WoW, where murder is a priority if not a given).

 

You don't like armor? Cool, make a stylish outfit, it's a safezone, it's meant for RPrs and people who want to build stuff. As I said, you can set up RDMS and rules for your territory - like Dygz's Hex - where RP people can go in and do... whatever RP people do, I never got that part to be honest.

 

A wild troll appears? Ban them from your territory, if EVE rules apply, they will be ejected outside your territory. If no EVE rules apply, then simply just kill them, then ban them from re-entering.

 

Take the law into your own hands. It's a sandbox game. Trolls try and ruin your show? Shoot them, griefing works both ways. :P

 

And who knows, that way you may actually strike a bargain and come to an understanding with them and they end up leting you go scot-free I know I have come to an understanding with the crazy neighbours of mine in EVE and it was during a trolling session, culminating with me asking their leader "how long did it take you to model your toon after Keanu Reeves?"

 

If you can't accept the nature of the sandbox game and that the freedom others have, you also possess, then I can't really debate this any further. It's 90% social interactions in a game like DU. Your "charisma" attribute IRL determines your in-game interactions with people. Be conversational, be communicative (which you already are, just deploy said skills with a pirate ambush, and pull a Julius Ceasar on them). 

 

Cheers!

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You didn't say that. Twerkmotor said it.

 

1: Twerkmoter asserted that we lose everything when we resurrect, which isn't quite true. 

"You respawn but your inventory will be randomly losing most items, as it is impossible to insure that the particular branch of the universe where you are now has the same past history as the one you come from."

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/20-devblog-resurrection-node-mechanics/

 

2: I said: "I don't care how expensive regaining inventory is - I would happily spend days regathering inventory or quit the game before paying a ransom to another player. There is nothing in a game worth supporting the concept of ransom to another player. Nothing."

 

3: People who are unwilling to pay ransoms will either live with the consequences or quit playing. Of course.

 

4: I agreed that attempting to ransom is a valid tactic. I just find acquiescing and supporting that tactic to be silly. It encourages players to continue bad behavior. 

 

5: This tack basically started when people stated they would suicide to teleport away. Twerkmotor scoffed at the notion.

But, really, it's just a matter of different priorities and playstyles. We don't all have the same values.

 

Sounded like you meant my post about profits on markets

 

Well, yes, the INVENTORY. But IF there are implants (in your head!) and whether you lose them or not, is not yet defined. But I can imagine that those are lost for sure when killed.

Everyone can do whatever they want - be killed and lose 5bil or pay 2,5bil ransom. It's not a choice of stupidity or silliness - it's a choice of gain vs loss.

 

Those enemy ships may be able to destroy your base and ships worth 1 bil but your defenses killed their capital ship worth 5 bil. IMHO that battle was won by the defender, but thats just me. I don't mind losing expensive stuff, because ingame currency doesn't matter at all to me, so I will happily make such trades.

 

You simply CAN'T stop people from paying that ransom, you won't stop pirates asking for ransom - but calling all bears stupid or silly because they made a perfectly economic and reasonable choice could be interpreted as harrassment ;)

 

Oh and btw: most of my ransom deals will be involving alcohol, a mic and the victim singing for me

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Sounded like you meant my post about profits on markets

 

Well, yes, the INVENTORY. But IF there are implants (in your head!) and whether you lose them or not, is not yet defined. But I can imagine that those are lost for sure when killed.

Everyone can do whatever they want - be killed and lose 5bil or pay 2,5bil ransom. It's not a choice of stupidity or silliness - it's a choice of gain vs loss.

 

Those enemy ships may be able to destroy your base and ships worth 1 bil but your defenses killed their capital ship worth 5 bil. IMHO that battle was won by the defender, but thats just me. I don't mind losing expensive stuff, because ingame currency doesn't matter at all to me, so I will happily make such trades.

 

You simply CAN'T stop people from paying that ransom, you won't stop pirates asking for ransom - but calling all bears stupid or silly because they made a perfectly economic and reasonable choice could be interpreted as harrassment ;)

 

Oh and btw: most of my ransom deals will be involving alcohol, a mic and the victim singing for me

The Excel spreadsheets do not lie.

 

If the projected revenue of an asset your base defends is 100 bil monthly, and you lose a base of 1 bil, for taking down a Capital ship worthy 5 bi, you clearly lost the assets, thus the battle :P

 

In such a case, screwing the attacker by totalling your entire base, processing arrays and storage, would SINGFICANLY harm the attacker, as they now need to build infrastructure of their own, so the cost definitely pile up and unti lthey have set up infrastrucutre, they can't benefit off of the assets your base was making money out of :P

 

I guess some people would say, that since the attacker will cry over the destroyed assets they couldn't secure before the defenders destroyed them, that means the Defenders who lost against a superior force should be reported for griefing. How dare they do the smart thing?

 

That's the kind of vibe I'm getting off of this thread at this point :P People will just report things they don't want to blame on their own headstrong attitude, actions and / or naivety (I'm talking scams here :P ).

 

We are pirates, we accept the notoriety and bounties that come along with it. I won't cry if my bounty gets so high that a bounty hunter org makes it their livelihood of "Opean Season : Twerkmotor"-ing me for a month. I accept my actions, I'm fine. :P

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