Khaymann Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 So we all know that the dev's are going to be taking a bit of inspiration from Eve Online, but my question is how much? Will scamming be a thing that is allowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Let's be real here, yes, yes it will. Not because the devs intended for it, no, but because people are naive. And space... space is the final frontier where human decency and honor goes and freezes to death. If scamming for IN-GAME cash is not in the EULA of the game on release, then I don't see it being a thing the devs can prevent manually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaymann Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 Let's be real here, yes, yes it will. Not because the devs intended for it, no, but because people are naive. And space... space is the final frontier where human decency and honor goes and freezes to death. If scamming for IN-GAME cash is not in the EULA of the game on release, then I don't see it being a thing the devs can prevent manually. This is all true but will the dev's allow it like in eve? Or will they cater to the naive stupidity of the masses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 This is all true but will the dev's allow it like in eve? Or will they cater to the naive stupidity of the masses? That's what I meant by scamming not being a part of the End User License Agreement. If a player presses "ACCEPT" on it and scamming is not condemned in the EULA, then it's open game season for scammers. I personally, don't trust anyone, so I'm covered BliitzTheFox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaymann Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 That's what I meant by scamming not being a part of the End User License Agreement. If a player presses "ACCEPT" on it and scamming is not condemned in the EULA, then it's open game season for scammers. I personally, don't trust anyone, so I'm covered Nor do i, not after playing eve for 5+ years. BliitzTheFox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atmosph3rik Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 I hope NQ takes the time to explain to players how the trade system works. As long as there is a solid system for trading and everyone understands it no one should ever get scammed. Never hit accept until you have exactly what you are expecting to get in the window. If someone starts babbling about how they have this amazing spaceship you can have, but they just need you to give them some money before they can give it to you... IT'S A SCAM Gojo_Ryu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaymann Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 You would be very very surprised as to how many people are taken by this kind of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 You would be very very surprised as to how many people are taken by this kind of thing. Just look how many people fell for the Gold-For-Cash scam some years back in real life. It's sad to see the Darwinian Social Evolution is progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaymann Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 Darwinian Social Evolution I think that has become extinct to make room for the masses Anaximander 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralator Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 The devs of dual universe seem to take emergent gameplay and mirroring certain real world social structures very serious – It would only be principled to allow “harmless” in – game scamming, instead of starting some anti – scam campaign that ends up restricting the game. Solid gamedesign should suffice, as said before. Besides, with lua, complex social structures, and the overall complexity this is no game for the lighthearted or some kid. Also, one reason more to form reliable alliances. Who is with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 If you let people rip you off or scam you when it could have been avoided, the joke is on you. I also hope there is not just some trading window to exchange things for practical purposes. Being able to just drop items is better at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 The devs of dual universe seem to take emergent gameplay and mirroring certain real world social structures very serious – It would only be principled to allow “harmless” in – game scamming, instead of starting some anti – scam campaign that ends up restricting the game. Solid gamedesign should suffice, as said before. Besides, with lua, complex social structures, and the overall complexity this is no game for the lighthearted or some kid. Also, one reason more to form reliable alliances. Who is with me? Ater all, the best scam defense is a good mellon between your ears, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaymann Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 Ater all, the best scam defense is a good mellon between your ears, right? As true as this is, most people do not want to use this anymore. They just want everything handed to them and if they mess up then they want other people to fix it for them. this is where the scammers come in. On the other hand i am SO glad to see people with the same mind set as me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttacKat Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 So we all know that the dev's are going to be taking a bit of inspiration from Eve Online, but my question is how much? Will scamming be a thing that is allowed? For the sake of creating an non-toxic community, I hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaymann Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 For the sake of creating an non-toxic community, I hope not. we would delegate the “censorship” job to the players themselves. (quote can be found here in the q&a #19 2) From the sounds of it they are going to take more of a hands off approach and let the game evolve organically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 For the sake of creating an non-toxic community, I hope not. What's the point of a Sandbox then? You want EVE reinforcement timers on everything that enters PvP, but not the other parts of EVE? If people are naive, let them be naive. NQ should focus on botting, hackers and customer support where it's needed, not people's naivety. And yes, organisations should WARN their new members of scammers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_War_Doctor Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 What's the point of a Sandbox then? You want EVE reinforcement timers on everything that enters PvP, but not the other parts of EVE? If people are naive, let them be naive. NQ should focus on botting, hackers and customer support where it's needed, not people's naivety. And yes, organisations should WARN their new members of scammers. I agree. In game scamming should be allowed. sure look down on it or frown upon it if you like. You cant have a game that allows a player free reign to play as (s)he wishes, which could mean playing as a pirate. You cant have a pirate group then expect that a scammer is going to be punished. to me a scammer and a pirate aren't much different. Now if a scammer is trying to gain access to your account that's obviously very different but scamming you for in game currency or goods to me is expected of a game where there is player to player trading taking place. Gojo_Ryu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttacKat Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 1.) What's the point of a Sandbox then? You want EVE reinforcement timers on everything that enters PvP, but not the other parts of EVE? ... 2.) And yes, organisations should WARN their new members of scammers. 1. Hmm, if you trace back to all of my posts, I do not believe I have for once support this project as EVE 2.0. Personally, I rather NOT have any part of the Scammer/PvP/trickery game play in this game. Sandbox yes, lawlessness, no. 2. And some of the biggest/longest running scams in EVE happened within orgs. Qddiez 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 1. Hmm, if you trace back to all of my posts, I do not believe I have for once support this project as EVE 2.0. Personally, I rather NOT have any part of the Scammer/PvP/trickery game play in this game. Sandbox yes, lawlessness, no. 2. And some of the biggest/longest running scams in EVE happened within orgs. This is why I'm actually paranoid and don't trust anyone. See, I'm wise like that. GalloInfligo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttacKat Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 This is why I'm actually paranoid and don't trust anyone. See, I'm wise like that. It is a catch-22. We want the devs to give us a sandbox, but a true sandbox means total freedom in term of game play. If that is to be true, then all sandbox games should play just the same aside from the GFX differences, right? I can be totally on an one-man island here, but IMHO what makes one game different/better then another is how much the devs put into their game play environment that makes their game stand out from the other games, or else all WoW-clones will all play exactly the same, and all EVE-clones (the direction a lot of you seems to want this game to take) will also be just that, EVE (clone). My stance on this issue is personally I rather not see the devs do exactly what EVE did so I know I will be offered a different game, or else I might just as well go back to playing EVE. Hence the catch-22. Make this game THE standard, and not keep EVE the standard and make this game just a clone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 It is a catch-22. We want the devs to give us a sandbox, but a true sandbox means total freedom in term of game play. If that is to be true, then all sandbox games should play just the same aside from the GFX differences, right? I can be totally on an one-man island here, but IMHO what makes one game different/better then another is how much the devs put into their game play environment that makes their game stand out from the other games, or else all WoW-clones will all play exactly the same, and all EVE-clones (the direction a lot of you seems to want this game to take) will also be just that, EVE (clone). My stance on this issue is personally I rather not see the devs do exactly what EVE did so I know I will be offered a different game, or else I might just as well go back to playing EVE. Hence the catch-22. Make this game THE standard, and not keep EVE the standard. I see your arguement and I get your Catch-22 example. But without scammers, there won't be a bad guy people to hate. If people stop hating on the bad guys, there are no tales to tell and the game doesn't get exposure. It's a silly logical path, but tell me, what do people know most about EVE? That's right, all the dick-moves people pulled. Scams, double-books, logistical trickery and ... ahem, "logistical ingenuities" on a scale Wall Street guys went "holy crap, we can do that too!" around 2005 and ended in 2008. Let's be honest, scammers are drama source. Plus, a sandbox is not a sandbox if the devs tell you "no, you can't scam people" "wait there mister! You can't beg for money either!" "Wait, no, no, you can't be a lady and use your feminimity to get some items! Wait... you are a dude that roleplays a girl and have a voice modulator to trick people in that you are a girl and scam them... eerr... this is getting weird for a sandbox..." You get the idea. If the devs start hammering down on in-game scammers, it would be a landslide to hammering down on griefing, on political manipulation inside factions because the leader was "tricked". As I said, trust nobody, but your closest buds. I don't know... am I the only one that his parents told him to never trust strangers? Why is the need for Admin pampering needed for something so simple as don't trust men of confidence? Because, fun fact, that's how the term Con Man came to be. Con stands for Confidence. If a guy manages to sell you on a bull's waste, then you got tricked, tought luck, you are now wiser though. Gojo_Ryu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_War_Doctor Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I see your arguement and I get your Catch-22 example. But without scammers, there won't be a bad guy people to hate. If people stop hating on the bad guys, there are no tales to tell and the game doesn't get exposure. It's a silly logical path, but tell me, what do people know most about EVE? That's right, all the dick-moves people pulled. Scams, double-books, logistical trickery and ... ahem, "logistical ingenuities" on a scale Wall Street guys went "holy crap, we can do that too!" around 2005 and ended in 2008. Let's be honest, scammers are drama source. Plus, a sandbox is not a sandbox if the devs tell you "no, you can't scam people" "wait there mister! You can't beg for money either!" "Wait, no, no, you can't be a lady and use your feminimity to get some items! Wait... you are a dude that roleplays a girl and have a voice modulator to trick people in that you are a girl and scam them... eerr... this is getting weird for a sandbox..." You get the idea. If the devs start hammering down on in-game scammers, it would be a landslide to hammering down on griefing, on political manipulation inside factions because the leader was "tricked". As I said, trust nobody, but your closest buds. I don't know... am I the only one that his parents told him to never trust strangers? Why is the need for Admin pampering needed for something so simple as don't trust men of confidence? Because, fun fact, that's how the term Con Man came to be. Con stands for Confidence. If a guy manages to sell you on a bull's waste, then you got tricked, tought luck, you are now wiser though. possible solution. implement a jailing system or a trading ban system run by players of a sector. where the org or player who run the sector you are trading in can revoke your right to trade or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 possible solution. implement a jailing system or a trading ban system run by players of a sector. where the org or player who run the sector you are trading in can revoke your right to trade or not Exactly. Emergent and organic. You scam someone? That someone might want revenge. Might send people after you. Might even have your account ID to tell when you are online on alt characters. Boom, faction wide K.O.S. on bounties and banned from being traded. Perhps a faction could "paint" an individual to be seen by its members with a red name to signify a hostile target towards them. Who knows. Anonymous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_War_Doctor Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Exactly. Emergent and organic. You scam someone? That someone might want revenge. Might send people after you. Might even have your account ID to tell when you are online on alt characters. Boom, faction wide K.O.S. on bounties and banned from being traded. Perhps a faction could "paint" an individual to be seen by its members with a red name to signify a hostile target towards them. Who knows. exactly. the way i see NQ handling this game is hands off as much as possible. give us the tools and let us decide. go to a pirate city expect to be scam or be scammed. go to a reputable trade alliances city expect to get a deal. or atleast i hope it works that way, hell it could be reverse Anaximander 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralator Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Exactly. Emergent and organic. You scam someone? That someone might want revenge. Might send people after you. Might even have your account ID to tell when you are online on alt characters. Boom, faction wide K.O.S. on bounties and banned from being traded. Perhps a faction could "paint" an individual to be seen by its members with a red name to signify a hostile target towards them. Who knows. Certainly. With all the freedom the devs are planning to give to us, and all the aspects of the world that are supposed to arise organically, Dual Universe is effectively one giant social experiment. A MMOSE you could say. I am really interested to see how people behave, and how much the subscription (A PLEX system actually) changes the peoples normal online behavior. Anaximander and Anonymous 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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