Warden

@supermega
 
If you look at the context earlier, it fits well to the general topic in my book. If we ask how we can punish players, then debating alts and circumvention of punishments are related aspects because it could then allow you to question effectiveness of punishments you come up with in the first place. On that note: How could organizations detect alts (eventually), what do you think? I'll coax it out of you eventually!
 
---
 
As for the "first step", I find most things people could come up with so far to be questionable. I tried to come up with some ideas myself when it became a potentially pressing matter for the future due to a police related side project. But unless the game mechanics end up like in first person shooters (which is relatively ruled out by now), classic mechanics like "stop, frisk, confiscate" are out of the picture. So is potential "imprisonment" unless the game, in its own frame, allows such mechanics to be forced on other players.
 
If not, all I think you can hope for is "voluntary imprisonment" or "(voluntary) forced labor" - next to just excluding people from services, of course - or as a way to let them redeem access or reputation.
 
In a nutshell, for me it's this for now, more or less:
 
- Measures of punishment are relatively uncertain yet
- Intrusive measures seen in other games or mods are likely out of the question until proven otherwise
- Toughest punishments players could expect is being banned from membership or services as far as I know
- Regaining access might be accompanied by fines or certain actions you have to go through, in which the incentive to do so would be regaining certain privileges or access to services, but forcing such measures may not be guaranteed
 
Less abstract, someone f...s up in a city and you make it so that they perhaps can still run around in the city, but cannot use most services that are vital. Maybe you can also ban them from entry into the zone altogether via the right construction methods (needing to get through the right doors whitelisted or not blacklisted) or in general as it is a gameplay feature that bans entry automatically as soon as you try to step into the area in question, like an invisible shield.
 
And that could be it in most situations. That would perhaps be already punishment (enough). And if some want to regain access, they have to do certain things, in which the incentive to do labor or sit in prison comes from the own players, which to me is like a "voluntary sentence".
 
The question is, can you force this through other measures as there likely won't be any active gameplay mechanics for this? That would be up to how you do it as player (faction). You can also try doing the same by threatening bounties and making their life miserable if they don't go through with whatever you have in mind for them, like prison or manual labor.
 
If that works just as well, I don't know. Probably not as well or often as when you, as banned person, develop the own incentive to basically get yourself unbanned.
 
 
 

I realize you probably had specific scenarios and situations in mind as you wrote it, but on the other hand I just sat there and thought: "It's not like organizations can really do much in that regard if you keep quiet."
 
Of course, it again depends on many aspects, factors and the specific situation in the end but, say, if our friend Lethys here gets banned (on his known 'main') from, say, the markets of a trading outpost or even a big city where a number of people always come by, then he can just circumvent that by making a new character. If bans can only be applied to characters and not user accounts (encompassing all their characters), he can literally run up there and interact again. If he doesn't give it away himself and if the managers of that place do not demand each one to whitelist with specific criteria including a voice sample (even that can be faked), then how will they 'track him down'?
 
I do not speak about what would be illegal measures here in reality, on that note. "Tracking down" only really becomes possible in my eyes if enough hints are dropped and / or if there was an integrated mechanic to identify what character belongs to what forum or account user. And even then it kinda stops there if you use a different account altogether.
 
Unless you have specific things in mind in how orgs "can always eventually track them all down if they chose", I think it's really easy to circumvent such restrictions with new alts.
 
But...
 
 
... I would agree that this is indeed a deep dark hole. At times.

Space Kahjit has wareez if you hav coin.

I mostly think that unless "drugs" or certain chemical substances really bring downsides that could endanger other players, there won't be rigorous banning of said things.
 
Most player factions and states likely won't ban a damn thing. My prediction is you'll see more rigid enforcement or banning of certain actions players can or cannot do - aka how to behave - than objects being banned. Most who opt for bans will likely do so for "fluff" reasons. For RP, immersive or ideological reasons. You could think it could attract players to "outlaws", but would there even be a need for "outlaws" if you can just go to another (player) state and freely obtain those things in malls, shopping areas, etc? Where their security or police forces might stop you for a vehicle check to see if it adheres to certain requirements, where they might look in the trunk or storage and not give any damn about "space weed"?
 
You could probably stand in the streets (or corridors) and consume that visibly (assuming there is animations for this, whether short or longer) like eating a snack or smoking a cigar (inb4 "Non-smoking area").
 
In short, anything is possible in that regard, the rest would depend on the people / player factions, their stance on it and how exactly such narcotics would work.
 
People going for that "smuggler vibe" wanting to be a "criminal" who sells or smuggles that just for the heck of it might see huge disappointment if it doesn't end up banned or outlawed in many areas. But then again you could look for this in exactly those areas where the people in power decide to outlaw it. I'd only ever consider doing that if for some reason this is outlawed in some other area or faction, but retains a certain demand, implying increased prices. Then it's a risk and profit calculation. But ironically you could have your production plans visibly in other areas where it's not outlawed. Heck you could plaster big signs on your 'factory' while you can sell it there and sell it at a higher price in outlawed areas, if people 'living' or working there do not or cannot get into territories where usage is allowed or not restricted much.
 
I, for one, was never fond of the whole vibe around (space) drugs and the usage or selling of those in many games, and I don't take any 'potentially questionable' in reality. You could say I'm generally not really interested in gameplay going into that direction and ironically I am organizing a police project for a notable community city project. While you could now think I'm opposed, on the other hand I say that I understand economic aspects behind it (and it's only a game) and in addition, if said city project management doesn't outlaw any substances, then I say: Less work for the 'cops' involved!
 
You have to consider another aspect: Any player nation outlawing this and really declaring a 'war on (space) drugs' has a higher pressure to keep their areas clean. A certain black market could grow. You'll open up a certain "homefront" in a way, potentially, if it becomes a big issue. That can be fun and part of emergent gameplay, but at the same time you need to spend resources on enforcing that. Other player nations who do not outlaw this or that do not get to have that problem and can spend resources and time on other things. Heck they could probably benefit from the taxes, if they can be applied, if it's really a sought-out substance.
 
But before I write more for now, I guess we'll have to wait and see. Time will tell. I'd generally find such 'mechanics' interesting to have potentially questionable substances that players just have to deal with somehow.
 

I mostly think that unless "drugs" or certain chemical substances really bring downsides that could endanger other players, there won't be rigorous banning of said things.
 
Most player factions and states likely won't ban a damn thing. My prediction is you'll see more rigid enforcement or banning of certain actions players can or cannot do - aka how to behave - than objects being banned. Most who opt for bans will likely do so for "fluff" reasons. For RP, immersive or ideological reasons. You could think it could attract players to "outlaws", but would there even be a need for "outlaws" if you can just go to another (player) state and freely obtain those things in malls, shopping areas, etc? Where their security or police forces might stop you for a vehicle check to see if it adheres to certain requirements, where they might look in the trunk or storage and not give any damn about "space weed"?
 
You could probably stand in the streets (or corridors) and consume that visibly (assuming there is animations for this, whether short or longer) like eating a snack or smoking a cigar (inb4 "Non-smoking area").
 
In short, anything is possible in that regard, the rest would depend on the people / player factions, their stance on it and how exactly such narcotics would work.
 
People going for that "smuggler vibe" wanting to be a "criminal" who sells or smuggles that just for the heck of it might see huge disappointment if it doesn't end up banned or outlawed in many areas. But then again you could look for this in exactly those areas where the people in power decide to outlaw it. I'd only ever consider doing that if for some reason this is outlawed in some other area or faction, but retains a certain demand, implying increased prices. Then it's a risk and profit calculation. But ironically you could have your production plans visibly in other areas where it's not outlawed. Heck you could plaster big signs on your 'factory' while you can sell it there and sell it at a higher price in outlawed areas, if people 'living' or working there do not or cannot get into territories where usage is allowed or not restricted much.
 
I, for one, was never fond of the whole vibe around (space) drugs and the usage or selling of those in many games, and I don't take any 'potentially questionable' in reality. You could say I'm generally not really interested in gameplay going into that direction and ironically I am organizing a police project for a notable community city project. While you could now think I'm opposed, on the other hand I say that I understand economic aspects behind it (and it's only a game) and in addition, if said city project management doesn't outlaw any substances, then I say: Less work for the 'cops' involved!
 
You have to consider another aspect: Any player nation outlawing this and really declaring a 'war on (space) drugs' has a higher pressure to keep their areas clean. A certain black market could grow. You'll open up a certain "homefront" in a way, potentially, if it becomes a big issue. That can be fun and part of emergent gameplay, but at the same time you need to spend resources on enforcing that. Other player nations who do not outlaw this or that do not get to have that problem and can spend resources and time on other things. Heck they could probably benefit from the taxes, if they can be applied, if it's really a sought-out substance.
 
But before I write more for now, I guess we'll have to wait and see. Time will tell. I'd generally find such 'mechanics' interesting to have potentially questionable substances that players just have to deal with somehow.
 

Let's be honest here:
 
That (real examples) is because they're a lot more crucial and / or vulnerable. It's not like "political leaders" (in comparable form, position or rank) in-game need it out of survival reasons in their own areas if those are safe zones where random violence cannot occur easily or only when contested.
 
It would (in those areas, that is!) simply be for fluff - RP or 'realism' - or 'coolness'. But technically you can be that leader figure on the bus or sidewalk without a big convoy or escort.
 
My general point being that we can often point to reality or find inspirations in it, but should not always try to copy it fully.
 
That's my own view anyway. Run whatever player organizations or states / empires how you see fit with all potential benefits and flaws, many subjective, some not much.

Drugs can be ingame (just like in eve for example). https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Medical_boosters
 
You get bonuses but also have a chance of huge side effects.
 
When I played eve I never was sober (IRL) nor undrugged (IVL)

There is no set end goal; most (end) goals are subjective either way. In short, it is what people make out of it. I think the big hype is just that: People being in control of their (and others) destinies. You struggle and get to a point, then try to hold it and work from there. Or you lose things and rinse and repeat.
 
Just like in life there is no real "end goal". You just do things (or try to) until you perish. The big key difference here to some or many other games is that you are not limited in your approaches or in scale. That's the general "benefit" of sandbox games on average: You can build anything you can imagine while interacting with others with the same powers. Other games end eventually in their respective plots or things you can do. This, of course, also has subjective cons. The sheer size or possibilities are "too much" for certain people, and there are no "scripted" events or very scripted plots with lots of action and storytelling, like in a movie.
 
I would say that average "life" in DU would be more drawn out, with lots of politics or business and a slower pace - until notable wars happen.
 
I also doubt people will later passively sit around all the time, there will be enough power struggles between groups due to ideology, indifferences, simple mistakes that turned into rivalries, influence, more power (in terms of claimed areas and / or resources) and a lot more.
 
Will it be "grindy"? Depending on what people classify grindy as, sure. But that's the thing: It's like life again. You go through chores and hard work or tough events and circumstances, or sometimes plain repetitive, boring, monotone ones, and on the other hand there are usually special moments in life, accomplishments, victories, achievements, progress, meeting new people, having a good times. You may obtain certain skills, positions, reputations - or lose them.
 
It can really be a like a second life or a very interactive, unscripted game in an online environment where the players are the driving factor. Some like it, some dislike it. Some find it very exciting or special, others just shrug.
 
No matter what your stance is:
 
 
There will be a lot to DU.
 
Other than that, time will tell if people can motivate themselves in larger projects or long-term strategy over the span of years. I suppose this works in EvE, so I think we will see similar things happen in DU.

FEC has your long range interception capabilities covered. The FEC - Prokaryote delivers powerful thrust in atmo and space, and quality maximized fuel storage, with room for at least 3 gunners.
Name:  FEC - Prokaryote
Role: Long Range Interceptor/ Cruiser
Product line: Bio
Designer: TheBlender
 
 

 (Artwork by Captain_Hilts | Now flying in Pre-Alph)
 

I've seen the underlying argument a few times here so far, if my memory doesn't fool me right now. And of course I must admit that:
 
1) the abstract risk is there and that
2) it all heavily depends on the situation, all involved actors, the circumstances, etc
 
But at the same time I can imagine situations where there's absolutely little to no threat involved just having a "third (neutral) party" drive by or be in the area temporarily to do whatever they do.
 
My point or appeal is that you later on may not have to automatically shoot anyone else not on your side (a third party) due to potential risks. There isn't always a real threat in any encounter or situation. Say you have someone wave their neutral or white flag. They are at a distance, not running over to you. What threat or risk is there? Them working for some hostile side and telling them how many you are? They're further away and perhaps do not move closer to you, but keep distance themselves. By that point they see what they can see. If you engage them it won't change much or perhaps they see more of you, making it "worse", potentially. By the time you both acknowledge each other, they could already transmit said information or just your general presence is my point.
 
Again, it all depends on the situation and all that jazz in the end, no doubt, but my key point is you don't have to always shoot anything not on your side and supposedly neutral in some conflict or area, just passing by or minding their own business. Chances are they are indeed neutral or do not want to get involved in combat.
 
You can of course also engage (yes, I know, depends on who, when, situation, etc ) any third or neutral party because they can be a potential risk or threat, but that will likely not net you any flowers in the long run.
 
I would never underestimate public perception or reputation, assuming you do care about it at least a bit on the larger scale. I have seen countless examples where very reckless factions raided or engaged or tortured anyone and their mothers in games and that brought people against them in alliances, pacts, coalitions, etc.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
But it's quite fascinating, isn't it?
 
Think about it. Any decision or action you take or do not take can have lasting effects. I think that is causality in a nutshell. Will engaging that third party in a situation be helpful? Are they spies? Could engaging them prevent them from relaying more information, assuming you can destroy them locally?
 
What if it is a bad move and you pissed off the wrong people, leading to a huge decline in public opinion and new enemies? What if those ripples and decisions lead to, in a worst case, complete destruction of your organization (dissolved)? Or what if you did the "right thing" and guaranteed operational security at least for that particular operation or battle?
 
What if either decision (ignore or engage) doesn't lead to any notable result or change in the big picture?

Let's be honest here:
 
That (real examples) is because they're a lot more crucial and / or vulnerable. It's not like "political leaders" (in comparable form, position or rank) in-game need it out of survival reasons in their own areas if those are safe zones where random violence cannot occur easily or only when contested.
 
It would (in those areas, that is!) simply be for fluff - RP or 'realism' - or 'coolness'. But technically you can be that leader figure on the bus or sidewalk without a big convoy or escort.
 
My general point being that we can often point to reality or find inspirations in it, but should not always try to copy it fully.
 
That's my own view anyway. Run whatever player organizations or states / empires how you see fit with all potential benefits and flaws, many subjective, some not much.

But... does it blend?
 
(See what I did there? Hue Hue Hue.)

The general question I ask myself with such no fly zones is practicality:
 
Someone comes from far away with a ship that is not large. Lands at the designated parking spots likely not in the inner city. Then what? I mean, a vehicle doesn't just pop up out of nowhere unless you bring one, but not all can bring one with them and whether those would fit the technical requirements is another question.
 
It's not necessarily a "problem" for this city or faction only but one in general.
 
So what solutions are there besides "have fun walking"? Do you intend businesses to have car shops or leasing programs or does the state (Alpha fed) intend to run potential car rentals or shops directly?
 
Furthermore, will cabs (run privately) be a thing at this time?
 
Other public transportation from those landing zones such as trains?
 
Assuming you can safely lock down weapons, as in either deactivate them by the user or via some forced zoning area in controlled areas, do you plan in relying on this and fine or punish only in cases of misuse... or would weapons need to be physically dismounted and absent?
 
This might be relevant for those who come from afar and bring their own car. Huh, nice rhyme.
 
Anyway, I think those are potentially interesting or vital questions. If not now, then at the latest when you build the city in a final version for release without further wipes on the horizon.

But... does it blend?
 
(See what I did there? Hue Hue Hue.)

Just buy some of my alts.
 
Good points made by above posters here. Just be patient and persistent as you start to recruit. But your biggest hurdle will be retention, and keeping things energetic. With the current state of Dual Universe, I advise finding games that you can rally your members behind. The community aspect of your group is more important than anything else, as that is your core. However, recruiting from DUs community right now will be a hard venture as the barrel is a bit empty.
 
You'll have better luck pulling in new members from other games, which is something BOO has been doing for the last two years. I believe half our member base come from games like Conan Exiles, ESO, Eve Online, Planetside 2, and a few others. It brings in new people to Dual Universe, and you can grow your own community while having fun at the same time. 
 
 
 
 

Which is a shame, really (meaning the last sentence).
 
I get that smaller or one man groups might be among the least lucrative for "an abstract mass of players" but all orgs have to usually start somewhere. It's a shame that some possibly creative ideas never see the light of day because people are 'risk adverse", not willing to try something in or with smaller orgs, while running ? to the big ones. Those will survive and always find members but the smaller ones struggle.
 
Of course it's not "wrong" wanting to be in big ones. It's a preference thing. And smaller groups can still find people.
 
But I'd say the general trend leans in favor to big groups which does not necessarily help smaller groups that need growth.
 

Bumpity bump.
 
For the last several months we've been running weekly Planetside 2 squad nights, movie nights, and other shenanigans many would deem unnatural. Why not come join one of the best communities in DU and partake in the fun?
 
 

So here in this thread I am going to be posting sketched ship concepts that DSI will be producing in DU both for our Navy and public purchase once they game goes live. All concepts presented are exactly that, “Concepts” and do not reflect in game content. Each submission is basically a detailed design guideline that DSI will use for construction purposes at DSI Shipyards and outsourced work with our partners at Objective Drive Yards.
 
Thank you,
Firestorm
 

 

Dual's going through
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes!
 
So go on and turn the channel to Ark Central, it's time for your monthly recap.
 
 
 

Sometimes you have to dig deep to uncover things. And some of those might be your own. With a bit of 90's flair.
 
After digging, I found some older things that made me chuckle a bit, as these things are fragments of the past, from around 2011 or before. A good past in which we won the big struggle or fight. I doubt we will ever be able to re-create the success we had back in the day and it isn't even quite necessary. Let's focus on good memories.
 
If you've been following us for a while you might have noticed we started using "themes". But those are nothing 'new'.
 
Here's something quirky that might more or less resemble one of our first or even only division themes so far. Lyrics are included. Sorry for the quality, back in the day that was kind of normal I think. I hope you enjoy, as people enjoyed it 'back in the day'.
 
 
 
Its style and the music (reminds me of some old game soundtracks) perfectly conveys how things were back in the day for us:
 
 
A wild, exotic, freaky game experience full of real or implied wonders and adventures
That's the sandbox experience we had and look forward to having again, even if just remotely
 
 
I welcome all who look for a challenge while not minding to start in a growing organization. If you can bring a mature character and don't mind a challenge in a growing organization, we might be a good fit.
 
 
>>Discord: https://discord.gg/Dp5xMFZ