MrFaul

It would be nice to have a DU OAuth 2.0 service for 3th Party companion sites.
I don't need a full "app- control panel" just something to get a secure ID and at least a confirmation that the person in question owns the game to prevent minimize trolls my db.
Also I'm lazy and don't want to maintain a pw db with all the "I've forgotten my user/pw traffic"
 
Also this would be easy to expand later for services like ORG management etc. with a proper "app- control panel"
 
Cheers Faul

Oh boy, where do I start. (I'm amazed that I read so far)
 
OK let's start with: this discussion on various channels has NQs attention, after all I got this info face to face from them yesterday :-D
(But nothing more regarding this topic other then "we are still discussing the details" which means it is almost set into stone)
 
But to clarify some things here what DACs are, which purpose they have and indirectly imply:
30 Days of playtime They are meant to allow active players with low rl income a way of playing the game without spending money Financing alt chars without paying again Giving a financial ingame boost by trading them Pre-paid server run time for NQ A very little tool to keep the rl money black market shallow  
What they are not:
A pay to win method (even if you buy 100 DACs good luck trading them with a reasonable profit) The holy grail of trading something physical in game (even though there is no confirmation on that yet)  
And if you think about it DACs shouldn't be physical, they represent game time, this is something that should be never ever stolen from someone.
 
"But EVE online has PLEX which can be stolen!!!!!"
Yes but EVE also has a very unique environment which allows a guarantee that they are safe from any unwanted access,
but at the same time to be more profitable to ship somewhere else at a very high risk.
 
DU isn't EVE and from the looks of it any physical item will always be at risk depending on your precautions.
So as long DACs can't be stored 100% risk free, there is no argument that could justify them to be physical.
 
In DUs case I don't think that limiting DACs to a local market would be a good thing, this could really dampening the exploration side of the game.
So something like a central "stock market" for DACs accessible for every player regardless where he is would work better in DU as EVEs model.
A "stock market" approach could even be used to "limit" the pay to win scenario, that people are worrying about so much.
I have no problem with "rich" individuals ensuring a lot of free game time for other players this improves everybodys experience in the long run. (Much like: this)
 
I personally like the idea of having them physically but I gladly give up this trait for a better overall gameplay.

Oh boy, where do I start. (I'm amazed that I read so far)
 
OK let's start with: this discussion on various channels has NQs attention, after all I got this info face to face from them yesterday :-D
(But nothing more regarding this topic other then "we are still discussing the details" which means it is almost set into stone)
 
But to clarify some things here what DACs are, which purpose they have and indirectly imply:
30 Days of playtime They are meant to allow active players with low rl income a way of playing the game without spending money Financing alt chars without paying again Giving a financial ingame boost by trading them Pre-paid server run time for NQ A very little tool to keep the rl money black market shallow  
What they are not:
A pay to win method (even if you buy 100 DACs good luck trading them with a reasonable profit) The holy grail of trading something physical in game (even though there is no confirmation on that yet)  
And if you think about it DACs shouldn't be physical, they represent game time, this is something that should be never ever stolen from someone.
 
"But EVE online has PLEX which can be stolen!!!!!"
Yes but EVE also has a very unique environment which allows a guarantee that they are safe from any unwanted access,
but at the same time to be more profitable to ship somewhere else at a very high risk.
 
DU isn't EVE and from the looks of it any physical item will always be at risk depending on your precautions.
So as long DACs can't be stored 100% risk free, there is no argument that could justify them to be physical.
 
In DUs case I don't think that limiting DACs to a local market would be a good thing, this could really dampening the exploration side of the game.
So something like a central "stock market" for DACs accessible for every player regardless where he is would work better in DU as EVEs model.
A "stock market" approach could even be used to "limit" the pay to win scenario, that people are worrying about so much.
I have no problem with "rich" individuals ensuring a lot of free game time for other players this improves everybodys experience in the long run. (Much like: this)
 
I personally like the idea of having them physically but I gladly give up this trait for a better overall gameplay.

Drones and Gameplay
 
Yes drones probably one of the most discussed topic with a lot dreams.
I've been thinking a lot about how those things could be integrated in a sandbox game for a longtime now not just with Dual Universe.
 
I want drones which are in theory capable of everything the player is able to do with his equipment. (DU equivalent: his constructs)
It would be up to the programming skills of the smart people to develop good software which would also be a good trading good.
Awesome AI software + awesome construct = awesome drone
The problem with that is it will be most likely abused very quickly with some kind of replicator device and an army of drones steam rolling anything that is in the way.
(And yes, I'm guilty I did this many times where I was able to do so)
But since you are not alone in the universe that is not an option,
they have to be nerfed in a way that doesn't cut the capability of them
but also clearly restricts usage to prevent such SkyNet scenarios.
 
I first thought about really complicated stuff that needs a very high level of knowledge and skills like (and dev time):
Building up complicated rule sets in order to use them, the need for communication devices with limited range and a max number of drones
or a master drone controller with "CPU" cycles that get used up by the various functions performed.
(The CPU cycle thing is fun so, I had competitions with my nerd friends who could build the most efficient program)
But all those have flaws and turn players off who don't want to dedicate much time to this topic.
 
Drones should be a essential part of the gameplay and not just for the 10% who are able to grapst the topic.
Things like summon your ship would be a drone activity, any construct performing a advanced series of maneuvers with a given task would be a drone.
This kind of automation needs to be accessible to everyone either by hard work or buying it from the marked.
Besides that, providing means for ingame automation makes third party bot software less viable.
 
Then it hit me, how to prevent SkyNet and make drones a very good gameplay element in DU.
DU already has some very unique and great abilities such as the rights and duty management system.
 
So how about you need a licenses in order to use a drone.
A license could be bought at the ark ship or a skill learned overtime but they are finite for example you can own only 5 per player.
Those license must be assigned to a construct core in order for it to function as a drone.
 
A little scenario
Now I'm a big company with a giant mining site (claimed territory) and doing everything per hand is stupid,
I WANT DRONES TO DOOO THAT.....
 
So how do I get to use many drones there?
That is where the rights and duty management comes in as a organisation you can claim a number of drone licenses form you members.
However it is up to them to give them to you they could keep or trade them in the market if you don't offer enough in return.
(And you could decline them membership for that but that is up to you)
With the ability to sublicense you can make a small income and miss a drone or you could control more drones at once.
 
The next problem pops up
Ok now I have 15 drone licenses and all are used in the mining site for bots and somebody attacks.
There are 5 additional fighter drones stationed at the side, so in order to defend it you need to dynamically reassign the license
and risk 5 mining bots falling out of the sky or you could rent 5 additional licenses from a market place.
 
This is in my opinion a very balanced solution which allows big empires to have a drone police to provide security,
big companies with automated equipment to do work and the average Joe a relieve from resource grinding.
 
P.S. it is 03:43 AM and I tired so for any mistakes: finders keepers :-P

What wicpar essentially means is a meta puzzle game with unknown rules so that the players actually have to try stuff (you know like experiments in real science)
 
I'm in favor of this but I dunno about the patent part.
Very quickly a wiki will be established for something like this which could dampen the fun.

Full blown Blueprint Editor
 
OK there will be trade able BPs (BP=Blueprint) we knew that already and we will be able to "print" them.
And JC mentioned somewhere there will be a "testing" mode.
However I think there is much more potential in a good BP ecosystem.
 
Since it is very very very annoying to build only in first person view for some people. (Like me, an engineer who loves good CAD software)
I'd rather a have good editor which allows me easy access to all voxels, elements and tools like a x-ray view or a quick access to the elements for scripting.
Don't get me wrong here, the FP building is vital too and also needs love :-)
 
 
A little example to demonstrate what I'm bitching about, building a big box:
First person:
Select box tool adjust size, look at your starting point click move physically around until your view and the box size matches what you want to accomplish, click again.
(I acknowledge that first person is better for polish and details but that is it)
Editor:
Click and hold on the grid, move mouse for x/y size, scroll the mouse-wheel for z and stop holding the mouse button, done.
 
 
DU is a game where we will be able to build fairly complex constructs so we need good tools to make that enjoyable.
If you want a bad example how it's not done look at SE, building constructing stuff in the survival mode is painstaking annoying,
you can't make fast iterations or changes of your creation to find something that works or/and looks good.
(The actual building mechanic is rather enjoyable and hope DU will have something similar)
So to make live easy a good editor is a must. But since we have so many aspects already and to avoid a sensory overload of its users only "one" editor won't cut it and several "modes" should be available.
 
What the editor should support:
Voxel mode
Element mode
Painting mode
(Prefab and)Planning mode
Simulation mode
 
 
Voxel mode:
Well all the tools to shape the voxels to your hearts content.
It would be nice if the simple forms had handles for manipulation similar to those found in vector programs.
 
Element mode:
Designed for easy clean access to the parts list and friction free placing of the elements.
 
Painting mode:
Yes a dedicated mode just to bring out the artistic side in you.
No seriously, I personally, I don't care much about the paint job but a lot of people will do.
DU is going to be a very social experience it is in my opinion vital to give people the option to develop color schemes for their fleets.
(Feature wish: the option to load SVG files as decals, allows to put logos and such on your ships :-)
 
(Prefab and)Planning mode:
This mode is for managing and adding the brains to your construct.
It allows you to access all scripts/elements, setup limits/properties of the moving parts,
define areas/spaces for a use case, setup the access rights,
manage and create prefabs/templates for easy use later on and
allows you to select a area to move it around(cut, copy and paste).
 
Simulation mode:
Well a mode to test all the stuff you just made to confirm that it works before you put all the resources and effort into building it only to discover it is a total failure.
 
 
A live version of a BP of each individual construct should be contained in the core block so you can easily access it, make modifications or copy it for sale.
Once you made changes to the "live version" and hit apply you only need to grab your building tools to disassemble/reassemble your construct without the need to constantly fiddle with your tool bar for the right parts.
This mechanic would also allow contractors/friends to build your construct since they won't need access to the BP only to the building site.

Full blown Blueprint Editor
 
OK there will be trade able BPs (BP=Blueprint) we knew that already and we will be able to "print" them.
And JC mentioned somewhere there will be a "testing" mode.
However I think there is much more potential in a good BP ecosystem.
 
Since it is very very very annoying to build only in first person view for some people. (Like me, an engineer who loves good CAD software)
I'd rather a have good editor which allows me easy access to all voxels, elements and tools like a x-ray view or a quick access to the elements for scripting.
Don't get me wrong here, the FP building is vital too and also needs love :-)
 
 
A little example to demonstrate what I'm bitching about, building a big box:
First person:
Select box tool adjust size, look at your starting point click move physically around until your view and the box size matches what you want to accomplish, click again.
(I acknowledge that first person is better for polish and details but that is it)
Editor:
Click and hold on the grid, move mouse for x/y size, scroll the mouse-wheel for z and stop holding the mouse button, done.
 
 
DU is a game where we will be able to build fairly complex constructs so we need good tools to make that enjoyable.
If you want a bad example how it's not done look at SE, building constructing stuff in the survival mode is painstaking annoying,
you can't make fast iterations or changes of your creation to find something that works or/and looks good.
(The actual building mechanic is rather enjoyable and hope DU will have something similar)
So to make live easy a good editor is a must. But since we have so many aspects already and to avoid a sensory overload of its users only "one" editor won't cut it and several "modes" should be available.
 
What the editor should support:
Voxel mode
Element mode
Painting mode
(Prefab and)Planning mode
Simulation mode
 
 
Voxel mode:
Well all the tools to shape the voxels to your hearts content.
It would be nice if the simple forms had handles for manipulation similar to those found in vector programs.
 
Element mode:
Designed for easy clean access to the parts list and friction free placing of the elements.
 
Painting mode:
Yes a dedicated mode just to bring out the artistic side in you.
No seriously, I personally, I don't care much about the paint job but a lot of people will do.
DU is going to be a very social experience it is in my opinion vital to give people the option to develop color schemes for their fleets.
(Feature wish: the option to load SVG files as decals, allows to put logos and such on your ships :-)
 
(Prefab and)Planning mode:
This mode is for managing and adding the brains to your construct.
It allows you to access all scripts/elements, setup limits/properties of the moving parts,
define areas/spaces for a use case, setup the access rights,
manage and create prefabs/templates for easy use later on and
allows you to select a area to move it around(cut, copy and paste).
 
Simulation mode:
Well a mode to test all the stuff you just made to confirm that it works before you put all the resources and effort into building it only to discover it is a total failure.
 
 
A live version of a BP of each individual construct should be contained in the core block so you can easily access it, make modifications or copy it for sale.
Once you made changes to the "live version" and hit apply you only need to grab your building tools to disassemble/reassemble your construct without the need to constantly fiddle with your tool bar for the right parts.
This mechanic would also allow contractors/friends to build your construct since they won't need access to the BP only to the building site.

Where the heck did you get that 2km info, the point of DUs technology is that there is no limit on voxel stuff.
All I remember is that there will be a "limit" set by environmental conditions (heat oxygen etc.) so in theory with the right tech you can hollow out a whole planet.
 
And no, resources are finite the world won't regenerate -> This makes mining sites very valuable. 

I second that, this would have a giant tail of legal stuff and would it made even illegal (in rare cases) to play.
Most problems of all, you would need to pay taxes as a player to your government<-the RL one.

the reason NQ will never do that is that there are immense restrictions about money transactions in europe and you have to have licenses, rights, can be sued if anything goes wrong, because you do not play around with money. You can intake money and manage it youself, if it doesn't leave your product it is not considered a currency as it is one-way.

Full blown Blueprint Editor
 
OK there will be trade able BPs (BP=Blueprint) we knew that already and we will be able to "print" them.
And JC mentioned somewhere there will be a "testing" mode.
However I think there is much more potential in a good BP ecosystem.
 
Since it is very very very annoying to build only in first person view for some people. (Like me, an engineer who loves good CAD software)
I'd rather a have good editor which allows me easy access to all voxels, elements and tools like a x-ray view or a quick access to the elements for scripting.
Don't get me wrong here, the FP building is vital too and also needs love :-)
 
 
A little example to demonstrate what I'm bitching about, building a big box:
First person:
Select box tool adjust size, look at your starting point click move physically around until your view and the box size matches what you want to accomplish, click again.
(I acknowledge that first person is better for polish and details but that is it)
Editor:
Click and hold on the grid, move mouse for x/y size, scroll the mouse-wheel for z and stop holding the mouse button, done.
 
 
DU is a game where we will be able to build fairly complex constructs so we need good tools to make that enjoyable.
If you want a bad example how it's not done look at SE, building constructing stuff in the survival mode is painstaking annoying,
you can't make fast iterations or changes of your creation to find something that works or/and looks good.
(The actual building mechanic is rather enjoyable and hope DU will have something similar)
So to make live easy a good editor is a must. But since we have so many aspects already and to avoid a sensory overload of its users only "one" editor won't cut it and several "modes" should be available.
 
What the editor should support:
Voxel mode
Element mode
Painting mode
(Prefab and)Planning mode
Simulation mode
 
 
Voxel mode:
Well all the tools to shape the voxels to your hearts content.
It would be nice if the simple forms had handles for manipulation similar to those found in vector programs.
 
Element mode:
Designed for easy clean access to the parts list and friction free placing of the elements.
 
Painting mode:
Yes a dedicated mode just to bring out the artistic side in you.
No seriously, I personally, I don't care much about the paint job but a lot of people will do.
DU is going to be a very social experience it is in my opinion vital to give people the option to develop color schemes for their fleets.
(Feature wish: the option to load SVG files as decals, allows to put logos and such on your ships :-)
 
(Prefab and)Planning mode:
This mode is for managing and adding the brains to your construct.
It allows you to access all scripts/elements, setup limits/properties of the moving parts,
define areas/spaces for a use case, setup the access rights,
manage and create prefabs/templates for easy use later on and
allows you to select a area to move it around(cut, copy and paste).
 
Simulation mode:
Well a mode to test all the stuff you just made to confirm that it works before you put all the resources and effort into building it only to discover it is a total failure.
 
 
A live version of a BP of each individual construct should be contained in the core block so you can easily access it, make modifications or copy it for sale.
Once you made changes to the "live version" and hit apply you only need to grab your building tools to disassemble/reassemble your construct without the need to constantly fiddle with your tool bar for the right parts.
This mechanic would also allow contractors/friends to build your construct since they won't need access to the BP only to the building site.

Yup you completely missed my point...
I have no worries that somebody would build a self replicating army at all.
That would really a epic thing to accomplish. (but I doubt it will happen, not at a SkyNet scale)
What I want are constructs that are allowed to stay active even if no one around.
I don't care at all what it does how it looks or what its purpose is.
 
But any simulated part put loads on the server. If you want to go the mine craft road the "license" is the equivalent to a "chunk loader" introduced by various mods.
So clearly you need to set restrictions on that part or the server gets overloaded with "virtual players" because that is a "chunk loader" in its essence.
 
There will be production blocks that somehow turn one thing into a other ting with a timed delay, that is stuff that gets unloaded when the player is offline.
It is a simple Time passed / Time it takes to do stuff = Stuff made equation which quickly caches up when the player returns so I don't see problems there.
 
I see problems with constructs shaping the world while the player is gone. That stuff won't happen because it needs proper simulation in order to work.
That is my worry....

Well you haven't met the gmod community yet xD
And trust me LUA is very power full.

Drones and Gameplay
 
Yes drones probably one of the most discussed topic with a lot dreams.
I've been thinking a lot about how those things could be integrated in a sandbox game for a longtime now not just with Dual Universe.
 
I want drones which are in theory capable of everything the player is able to do with his equipment. (DU equivalent: his constructs)
It would be up to the programming skills of the smart people to develop good software which would also be a good trading good.
Awesome AI software + awesome construct = awesome drone
The problem with that is it will be most likely abused very quickly with some kind of replicator device and an army of drones steam rolling anything that is in the way.
(And yes, I'm guilty I did this many times where I was able to do so)
But since you are not alone in the universe that is not an option,
they have to be nerfed in a way that doesn't cut the capability of them
but also clearly restricts usage to prevent such SkyNet scenarios.
 
I first thought about really complicated stuff that needs a very high level of knowledge and skills like (and dev time):
Building up complicated rule sets in order to use them, the need for communication devices with limited range and a max number of drones
or a master drone controller with "CPU" cycles that get used up by the various functions performed.
(The CPU cycle thing is fun so, I had competitions with my nerd friends who could build the most efficient program)
But all those have flaws and turn players off who don't want to dedicate much time to this topic.
 
Drones should be a essential part of the gameplay and not just for the 10% who are able to grapst the topic.
Things like summon your ship would be a drone activity, any construct performing a advanced series of maneuvers with a given task would be a drone.
This kind of automation needs to be accessible to everyone either by hard work or buying it from the marked.
Besides that, providing means for ingame automation makes third party bot software less viable.
 
Then it hit me, how to prevent SkyNet and make drones a very good gameplay element in DU.
DU already has some very unique and great abilities such as the rights and duty management system.
 
So how about you need a licenses in order to use a drone.
A license could be bought at the ark ship or a skill learned overtime but they are finite for example you can own only 5 per player.
Those license must be assigned to a construct core in order for it to function as a drone.
 
A little scenario
Now I'm a big company with a giant mining site (claimed territory) and doing everything per hand is stupid,
I WANT DRONES TO DOOO THAT.....
 
So how do I get to use many drones there?
That is where the rights and duty management comes in as a organisation you can claim a number of drone licenses form you members.
However it is up to them to give them to you they could keep or trade them in the market if you don't offer enough in return.
(And you could decline them membership for that but that is up to you)
With the ability to sublicense you can make a small income and miss a drone or you could control more drones at once.
 
The next problem pops up
Ok now I have 15 drone licenses and all are used in the mining site for bots and somebody attacks.
There are 5 additional fighter drones stationed at the side, so in order to defend it you need to dynamically reassign the license
and risk 5 mining bots falling out of the sky or you could rent 5 additional licenses from a market place.
 
This is in my opinion a very balanced solution which allows big empires to have a drone police to provide security,
big companies with automated equipment to do work and the average Joe a relieve from resource grinding.
 
P.S. it is 03:43 AM and I tired so for any mistakes: finders keepers :-P

Drones and Gameplay
 
Yes drones probably one of the most discussed topic with a lot dreams.
I've been thinking a lot about how those things could be integrated in a sandbox game for a longtime now not just with Dual Universe.
 
I want drones which are in theory capable of everything the player is able to do with his equipment. (DU equivalent: his constructs)
It would be up to the programming skills of the smart people to develop good software which would also be a good trading good.
Awesome AI software + awesome construct = awesome drone
The problem with that is it will be most likely abused very quickly with some kind of replicator device and an army of drones steam rolling anything that is in the way.
(And yes, I'm guilty I did this many times where I was able to do so)
But since you are not alone in the universe that is not an option,
they have to be nerfed in a way that doesn't cut the capability of them
but also clearly restricts usage to prevent such SkyNet scenarios.
 
I first thought about really complicated stuff that needs a very high level of knowledge and skills like (and dev time):
Building up complicated rule sets in order to use them, the need for communication devices with limited range and a max number of drones
or a master drone controller with "CPU" cycles that get used up by the various functions performed.
(The CPU cycle thing is fun so, I had competitions with my nerd friends who could build the most efficient program)
But all those have flaws and turn players off who don't want to dedicate much time to this topic.
 
Drones should be a essential part of the gameplay and not just for the 10% who are able to grapst the topic.
Things like summon your ship would be a drone activity, any construct performing a advanced series of maneuvers with a given task would be a drone.
This kind of automation needs to be accessible to everyone either by hard work or buying it from the marked.
Besides that, providing means for ingame automation makes third party bot software less viable.
 
Then it hit me, how to prevent SkyNet and make drones a very good gameplay element in DU.
DU already has some very unique and great abilities such as the rights and duty management system.
 
So how about you need a licenses in order to use a drone.
A license could be bought at the ark ship or a skill learned overtime but they are finite for example you can own only 5 per player.
Those license must be assigned to a construct core in order for it to function as a drone.
 
A little scenario
Now I'm a big company with a giant mining site (claimed territory) and doing everything per hand is stupid,
I WANT DRONES TO DOOO THAT.....
 
So how do I get to use many drones there?
That is where the rights and duty management comes in as a organisation you can claim a number of drone licenses form you members.
However it is up to them to give them to you they could keep or trade them in the market if you don't offer enough in return.
(And you could decline them membership for that but that is up to you)
With the ability to sublicense you can make a small income and miss a drone or you could control more drones at once.
 
The next problem pops up
Ok now I have 15 drone licenses and all are used in the mining site for bots and somebody attacks.
There are 5 additional fighter drones stationed at the side, so in order to defend it you need to dynamically reassign the license
and risk 5 mining bots falling out of the sky or you could rent 5 additional licenses from a market place.
 
This is in my opinion a very balanced solution which allows big empires to have a drone police to provide security,
big companies with automated equipment to do work and the average Joe a relieve from resource grinding.
 
P.S. it is 03:43 AM and I tired so for any mistakes: finders keepers :-P