MookMcMook

I voted, but MMORPG.com is a bit of a cesspit. The only MMO's that get any attention there are ones that pay for it, which should be pretty obvious from all of the ads they shove everywhere they can. MassivelyOP actually gives some fair coverage to all sorts of indie titles, whereas MMORPG.com just covers what will make them money (which should be evident by looking through any of their recent articles). I stopped going there years ago.
 

TWERK!  You nailed it bub (per your usual standards!)  Thanks
-LK

Don't despair, despite some heated words now and then pretty much everyone here wants the same thing. 
 
Creating a good new player experience is on the minds of many people on this forum. And probably NQ as well. 
 
We have a few extreme poles represented as any game forum, somewhere down the road they will meet in the middle. By choice or by force. 

I think you might be underestimating him. Don't let your 'hatred' of those who disagree stop you from thinking straight. Attacks against character are only useful if you want to undermine their ability to reason (and therefore bait them into doing what you want them to do). And attacking Twerk's character means you lose, since it is usually a last resort (it is also what he wants you to do).
 
Be rational, play devil's advocate, learn when to back down (I go by the phrase "If someone disagrees, check again to see if you are right").

Perfect, I would have been surprised if noone had thought about that already  
It is great that this can become an ingame University Building, not just some external website.

Yup, that's what I'm thinking. 
And I'm fairly certain that it will happen in game. In EVE there is too much text for a lot of players. But from what I have seen about DU so far I think that won't be the case with DU
 
Unfortunately there is no tutorial that can teach a person to achieve a goal with social skills. Although I don't think the average theme park player will come to DU. (not saying all theme park players lack social skills) 
 
Yet, I heard J.C. mention that they hope to attract non MMO players. So who knows maybe we get a fresh generation that lack the years of bad habits. 

You can create SVG graphics with Lua and according to the Lua Tutorial you can import pictures as well. So I think it might be a good project to create a "DU-University" in game. Which would include advanced topics. Depending on the Lua scripting you might be able to do "tests" in game. 

The LUA scripts on screen for bespoke player-made tutorials? That might be stunning. A lot like player made "quests" but designed to teach and learn the basics effectively in more dimensions of gameplay.
 
I really do think a stunning introduction to new players on Alioth will be worth it's weight in gold.

Yea.. I would file that in the not very probable pile. 
 
In general I would think it would be good for everyone to try to be as welcoming as possible to new players. Which is very easy on the forum and beyond but impossible in game. Next to the obvious new player experience troubles EVE has, one of its biggest issues is being seen as "that game flooded by psychos". That is an issue where both the community and CCP are responsible. Not to mention that EVE is bloated as hell, a double edged sword in my opinion. 
 
And in game, you can't exactly flag new players in game as being new. That would be a literall bulls eye to some players. 
Good and easy to understand tutorials are key but most of the game can't be explained in a tutorial. I personally see a lot of potential in player run initiatives to welcome fresh blood. In game and out of game. 
 
As always I feel you can't single out one or two issues with EVE and translate that to DU. 

Plex (as DAC) are bought with rl money by someone (at a higher price than a normal sub) which means that even If EVERYONE used Plex/DAC, NQ would actually make more money. YOU don't pay with rl money, but some other guy did for you.
 
EVEs main problem is the very Bad tutorial (if it's even possible to call it a tutorial). So new ppl get thrown in this vast universe with literally no clue. They start doing stuff they learned in that tut (like flying Missions or Mining) and don't really care for all the other stuff that's going in in high sec because they don't even KNOW it's an issue (gankers, evasion mechanics, fitting your ship properly, gameplay mechanics to be safe,...). That's partly because the players want instant gratification and don't care for in depth explanations of gameplay mechanics (which is understandable) and partly because they just never didn't saw what Eve ist really about (eg Bad Tutorials). 
So by the time they slowly learn the game (mostly alone) they Encounter people who want to kill them, griefers, gatecamps and If they're in a small org they get wardecced for a green killboard. Can't follow me what this all means with all the implications involved? Good, neither do those new ppl. That's what they face and they have no clue at all.
Only Few live through these rough times.
 
When those newbros finally leave they're bitter and salty about Eve because they just don't know better. There ARE ENOUGH mechanics to help you defend against others but noone actually ever showed them those.
 
So how to tackle this? Hard question indeed. 
Imho there should be a good tutorial which slowly and over time (with more skills unlocked) shows them how to do things.
But for all other stuff like Meta, ship building, survivability, moving in enemy Terrain, and all other social aspects you need a player run org cause no tutorial can show you these mechanics

Funny thing is, both sides need each other. DU as a game can't work without people creating things and people destroying things. 
 
I'm pretty carebear by most standards but if I wanted a game to just build silly stuff I'd play minecraft. 
 
My advice, relax it's just a game. Let's see how the game actually plays before burning down the roof. 

I totally forgot about the AMA there twerk linked (which everyone just ignored)
 
It's really only circle jerking as the "carebears" want their "Safe space" and the "griefers" want their "ffa come at me Bro" (mind the "" ...) And both Talk about the same thing but have other fears (too much pvp, too less pvp)

@Felonu We seem to be on the same page, I wish more people were as understanding about this issue as you. I think part of the problem is all this text based communication going on nowadays, its impossible to discern the tone of a conversation anymore. Anyways, we are all used to living on our own side of the fence so of course some of our ideologies are going to clash. However as you said at the end of the day NQ will have to make the tough decisions, all we can do is offer our advice and suggestions.
 
I have stated my position on topic but unfortunately I don't have any great revolutionary ideas to offer on how to solve the actual dilemma. Eve tried to handle things by offering layers of security in the form of high sec, low sec, and null sec. It was somewhat of an effective approach but it had its share of problems too. Perhaps we need a more modern implementation. Maybe integrating it with your idea of manipulating the attack and defend ratio somehow. I don't know, its very hard to give everyone what they want. I'm just going to leave it to the experts to figure it out, besides I think my perspective already has plenty of representation.
 
@CaptainTwerkmotor You can be very blunt and rude at times but I do agree with your stance, appreciate what your trying to do and I especially like your persistence. I don't really have the right to complain especially considering you are going around doing the work of 10 men, but could you try to be a little more patient with people? Not everyone is blessed with as much experience in pvp as you have and we don't want to scare away new blood.

Lol, you guys!
 

Lol, you guys!
 

Thanks Twerk! Awesome tech link (my programming knowledge is very shallow but I can follow code roughly). I do have a bro who works in software dev and has experience of Erlang/telecoms as well as other languages, which can be useful too.
 
This is a gold-mine on EQN problems internally: https://eq2wire.com/2017/01/05/closing-the-book-on-everquest-next-and-landmark/
 
Indeed, SOE had lots of impressive tech, but they were fishing for investors much more than attempting to dev EQN first, ie they knew they needed money first to dev EQN, but did not tell the players they charged to play Landmark... and that was Georgesson's decision to split them apparently, perhaps it was intended to "play for time / EA cash" etc.

Yeah. The tech was impressive, but seriously underhanded by SOE. What ticked me off was them using the EQ:N idea to sell Landmark.

The sad part was they had a combat system that worekd fine - for the most part - a fully destructible enviroment, with raycasted "charged" attacks and normal ones. They literally took an "action game" system and turend it to soft-lock tab-targeting while keeping it fluid enough to be tactical on its handling, something not even Elder Scrolls Online figured out yet. 

As for DU's whole schtick, I can just link this : http://blog.actor-framework.org/2014-12/spotlight-dual-universe/

It's an interview JC Baillie gave on the team behind CAF (C++ Actor Framework). It's a good read if you have programming knowledge. It goes to show you they had a vision since 2014 on how they wanted their cloud servers to behave from the start. Netcode is where DU lives or dies after all.

@blazemonger
 
A good analogy I heard being used is "LOD based updates" on what DU does, it's not accurate, but it conveys the nature, I personally prefer the tyerm "Radiant updates" as their updateing of adjacent partitions of the server works more like a radiant spread.

As for the sniping part, this can be easily rectified with the same way you can snipe in games like COD or (more realistically) Planetside 2. If I snipe at someone at 500 meters, they are but a tiny dot I can't tell any details on them, but if I use my x12 scope, I can now see an outline, still not "good quality" on the LOD, but better. That's because reducing the FOV on a given resolution, means the engine has to "enhance" the detail. That's how LOD tech works in vague strokes, from Planetside 2, to EVE Online. I don't really see the problem there when it comes to the LOD. As for the observation part, yes, we should always keep in mind of the delay. I bet like in other games, expetise wil lbe found there on those mechanics. Knowing that "this image I see is 10 seconds old" means you can relay better info that way. Of course,  unless we got Alpha Proper (24/7) I can't tell for certain how long the delayed updates can be.

From what I read on JC's interview with the CAF team (C Actor Framework) they have a solid understanding on what they do. Essentially, the mainframe (server) keeps track of anything and everyone, the cloud machines just act as extra "filters" for all the information fed to the mainframe (which also maens you have an equal latency to everyone, since your local hub of AWS deals in Gibabits per second with the mainframe whhile you deal in (most caes) megabits per second). What happens o nanother system should not update on your NOW, essentailly. 

For all intents and purposes, it is a Single Shard, we all deal with the same central mainframe which is the "server", the AWS machines you connect are just filters for the mainframe and extra processing to handle all users equally, something that CCP should hae figured out ages ago and done away with Time Dilation, but that's another topic altogether. I think it's just that people iamgine a "server room" with an NQ logo on it at their Paris offices when they want to log into the game. AWS has killed the notion of "centralised server blades" long time now

JC Baillie actually put it well on the DevBlog about the server tech, in great detail.

https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/09/26/a-single-shard-continuous-universe-one-world-no-boundaries/#more-334

In EVE NullSec and Wormhole space are actually generally much more safe due to the population being much less dense and the rules of engagement are very simple unlike HighSec. While I live in a very highly populated area of NullSec I only have to travel a few systems and not run into anyone while roaming across many solar systems. Travelling from one Nullsec region to another is safest through Wormhole space and we have extensive databases on routes and connections as they change.
 
While most players in EVE do not get any further than (and are perfectly happy with) joining a corp and engaging in the usual PewPew the game has a huge amount of content and 'things to do' which really were never originally intended or designed to be used that way.. It's what keeps EVE at the forefront of MMO games. I certainly intend to find the 'backroutes' and strange things I have no doubt will exist in DU..
 
If there is to be a game able to take what's great about EVE and bring it to the next I do believe it is DU.

I don't really get the point of this. 
 
In Eve it works for YEARS now. People are perfectly safe in null space and whs. 
 
People need to change their views a bit imho. You can't just do everything alone or solo everywhere. And small orgs won't be able to do the same things as large orgs. But If you're part of a larger force, I really don't see a problem in building stuff somewhere very well protected. Watch alliance chat, watch alliance news, pay attention, be Safe. 
 
People will form huge pacts to protect each other (as they do in eve). They will be bored at some point (as in eve) and look for fights. 
 
There may be some individuals who want to grief. Do smth about it then. Code is only so successful because noone cares about highsec. So noone stops them. That's emergent gameplay though

Holy hell that was amazing. If you keep up quality like that, I could see this being the go-to show for DU news for a long time to come! (I mean let's face it, it basically already is)

@Elkay
 
Good point, we shan't derail.
 
but a quick sidenote, Landmark dier cause nobody cared for it. It died 3 months after release or so. The difference with DU, is NQ sells DU as a content creation experience and ONE item. 
 
Just saying.

1) Law of Inverse Square. The further you are from an object, the wider and weaker the wavelengthe becomes. It's like saying "

"Why buy an 4K screen, my 720p monitor can define details just the same".

No, it can't ,same goes for an object on the "3 kelvin" background of space. You need a lot more resolution -  or exposure - to pick up an object in space. If not resolution, then you need processing power to "enhance" the image with precision. All of which means you can hide in the background of 3 Kelivin, as long a you maintain your distance far away from their "resolution range". 

Math and geometry, it's truth.

2)
Congratulations, you found out space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggling big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space.

You also found out how Cultural Darwinism works - collective evolution, power in numbers.
 
3)
You do understand it's not "one server" and that the whole ... you know... thing about DU, it's that the server netcode they use is making the whole thing work, right?

They literally use Actor Model and asynchromous updates between adjacent partitions of the server so they can maintain a standard number of player-count within a given space as per server node. 

That means they can scale the game's population in one area to great proportions. That 10000 people you speak of, is no problem with one server blade for WoW. Let alone 10 Cloud Servers hosting 1000 people each, all communicating with each other for updates, while the people o nthem are on the same geographical location in-game.

It's like you don't even know what's DU's main selling point.
 
4) Sure, but Minecraft is not in space. Space, can be really, REALLY dark. Go 100 AUs from the star, you are practically invisible unless your scan resolution can pick up signatures.

Very interesting thoughts. I think marketing of graphics has been quite negative on game design innovation and the amount of investment on graphics. It does sell though, see just shy of 180m of backer money for Star Citizen. You're right SC won't EVER get high player counts and I'm doubtful they'll even be able to get fairly high multiplayer counts and may even be in danger of flunking entirely.
 
So for DU, I  don't expect the graphics will be as major a concern as the "game space" explosion in expansion of possibilities we might see in this game. And once that happens and if sufficient players play, then their own investment in the game creates it's own precedence. See WOW for example.
 
tl;dr: Graphics great for sales and immediate impact, the overall effect wears off fairly quickly in my experience. I still love well designed games from decades ago with a clever aesthetic eg Elite with it's vector graphics is wonderful along with it's UX and freedom.
 
As for CCP, if they ever want a new and innovative MMO design that I think will be successful and accords with their own design of EVE and develops this design in another direction, then they're welcome to contact me. :-)