NanoDot
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Everything posted by NanoDot
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This report seems to suggest otherwise: https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-economy-update-eve-vegas-2015-report/ The "active ISK" in EVE has been steadily climbing since launch. EVE money supply is clearly not a closed system, even though it does appear to be well-balanced to slow down the growth.
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That's interesting, when did CCP cap the EVE money supply ?
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straw poll Straw Poll, Let's build our Alpha City together !
NanoDot replied to Aesir's topic in Builder Forum
It's an interesting idea, and ideal for testing. I'd be happy to put some time into it. Perhaps we can recreate that "city" featured in one of the demo videos... -
The smaller the player base, the greater the chance that one or two individuals or orgs can manipulate the market. Even in EVE's relatively massive economy, people try it all the time, with varying degrees of success. It will undoubtedly be tried in DU as well, there are people with years of experience in "MMO economics" by now, and DU will have DAC's from day one...
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If I buy a ship blueprint copy from another player and build that ship, what are the copyright protections going to be ? Can I customize the ship I built from the BPC ? Can I add voxels and swap out elements, for instance ? And once I've modified that construct, am I now the new "creator" of the modified construct ? Can I now create a new master blueprint and start selling BPC's of my "improved design" ? I'd certainly hope not... Or is a construct "locked" against voxel or element changes by the new owner ? Lua scripts should probably be exempted from construct locks, but changing those shouldn't give you the option of creating a new blueprint of the construct itself.
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Weapons are pre-made elements supplied by NQ, so you cannot build actual weapon modules, only use the ones that the game provides. The weapon elements will have functions that you can use via Lua scripts, so you could potentially change some of the weapon behaviours in some ways, like "overheating" it to get a temporary 10% damage increase, but with the risk of damaging the weapon itself. Alderaan, eh ? It has already been said by NQ that you can build something the size of the Death Star, but there will be no "planet killer" weapons in the game, so the Death Star will just be a cool-looking ship with loads of conventional weapons. And there's no plan to allow players to name planets...
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If you want a hangar door, you will have to use one of the "door" elements supplied by NQ. I'm sure they will come in different sizes. I doubt the elements are scalable on demand. Seems to me that any part which has a "function" (e.g. doors, engines, lights, etc.) will be pre-made elements supplied by NQ in various sizes (e.g. small, medium, large). The functions of the elements (e.g. Light ON, Light OFF) will be "code hooks" that can be manipulated via Lua scripts. It doesn't sound like players will be able to define functions for their own constructs. Only the functions of the pre-made elements used in building a construct will be manipulatable. That means you cannot build a free-form door out of voxels, because there would be no way to make the door open or close.
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Are you referring to pre-alpha, alpha-1 or alpha-2 ? DU will not have damage from collision between constructs. Crashing a construct into the ground or into an asteroid will cause damage though. There will obviously be no combat damage until the PVP mechanics are implemented. Pre-alpha will basically be a "creative mode" where players get given unlimited resources to experiment and build whatever they want. Players will also be able to create blueprints of their constructs, which they'll be able to keep permanently. Beyond that there are no other game systems implemented yet AFAIK. However, constructs built in the alpha stages will be lost, because there will be server wipes between the development stages. During alpha 1 and alpha 2, more systems will be added incrementally, such as scanning, mining, markets, skill training, etc. We don't have a roadmap as yet, so it's not clear yet what is planned to be added at each stage. Once the basics are reasonably stable, NQ will probably start on the PVP implementation, which sounds like it's planned for late alpha-2.
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This is a recurring theme in many posts that I've read. It's either "I want to build a LARGE ship" or "I want to build a space station" or something along those lines. Building a large anything will probably be out of reach of the single player, because there is currently no "creative mode" in DU, which means you'd need to first mine for a few hundred hours to get the materials to build a large construct of any kind. Mining can only be done by hand. There's been talk of adding a "creative mode" to the game at some point after launch, but until that happens, a single player will probably be limited to small or medium constructs as a matter of practicality. The materials will have to be stored somewhere (vulnerable to theft) and the partially completed construct will be permanently in the game world, which puts it at risk, unless you're building in the arkship safezone. As for automation, NQ seem to have decided on a design that will intentionally limit automation. That implies that they don't want single players flying 21-gun dreadnoughts. If players find a "workaround" to make that possible, NQ will likely patch it out, because it conflicts with their intended game design.
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I really want to believe in this but ... really, this doesn't add up!
NanoDot replied to war's topic in General Discussions
In about 3 weeks' time, we'll see how it all hangs together when around 2000 pre-alpha players all try to login simultaneously ! I'd guess well have at least 1000 concurrent, with most trying to build various things in or near the arkship zone. It will be an excellent stress test. -
The ATV group will get access in about 2 weeks from now, so I'd expect NQ to announce the planned server uptimes soonish...
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We'll have to see how things pan out in DU, there are some potential subtleties in the game design that may produce a very different outcome than allowed by EVE's design. Having no safe place to logout cuts both ways... In EVE a "pirate" can simply fly to a bookmarked safe spot in space and logout, at which point player, ship and "loot" vanish safely from the game world. That means the pirate can dictate game play, you can only find them when they're logged-in on that char. In DU, that pirate's ship and contents (i.e. loot) stays in the game when they logout, so it can potentially be scanned-down and destroyed by hunters. So casual robbery might be much more risky in DU. In DU, a pirate will have to transfer loot to a "non-pirate" alt (loot laundering) to access the markets, unless they have a pirate base with trading facilities. But pirate bases will be prime targets for the security forces of big orgs... The risks and costs of a bandit lifestyle in DU may even mean that only "successful" bandits will be able to sustain operations (i.e. making a good profit from robbery). Unlike EVE, DU has no "easy money" sources like NPC missions or ratting in asteroid belts. EVE's easy money options can always be used to replace losses, there's no need to spend hours mining before you can get back in the action. Blowing-up NPC's is generally more fun than mining...
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I'd certainly hope we get a "creative build mode" sooner rather than later. There's a difference between "design" and "construction". Design is a 1-man process, but large-scale construction requires a team. If designing large structures are only possible if you have the materials for building it, that will essentially mean that only a handful of players (the nominated designers in large player orgs) will ever be able to "design" large structures and ships.
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The problem with research rate seems to be that NQ want to introduce new tech in stages. The only way to ensure that is to make the research process controllable (i.e. predictable) from a developer viewpoint. If research is done in a clever or "interesting" way, it opens up the possibility that some players may be able to discover new tech before NQ wants it to be discovered (i.e. stargates get discovered in week 4 after launch). Once 20 thousand players start working on a puzzle or minigame, there's no way of controlling the outcome unless there's hard caps in place. One way to keep control of the rate of discovery would be to only allow research of new tech levels after a certain time has passed. Perhaps the list of available research projects can simply be limited, with new projects being released over time. The research mechanics themselves can then be a fun and interesting process, without risking too much progress too soon.
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As has been pointed out in the replies here, DU will be far more hardcore than EVE. EVE has high-security space, where Concord will avenge your death. Empire space is littered with safe zones (NPC stations) where your ships and possessions are 100% safe at all times. DU will have none of that, outside of the initial starter safe zone. The best you can hope for in that regard will be to join or rent space from a medium/large org who will hopefully be able to provide a measure of security. No guarantees, you pays your money and takes your chance... EVE has a well-known saying: "Don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it". In DU, that applies too, but there's an additional saying needed: "Don't build it if you can't afford to have it blown up".
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PvP Mechanics and wrong gameplay direction ?
NanoDot replied to Aesir's topic in The Gameplay Mechanics Assembly
I guess that's why we'll have pre-alpha, followed by alpha-1 and then followed by alpha-2... and depending on how things go, maybe alpha-3 and then beta-1 and so on. I broadly agree with the OP, it does sound like a bit of a fruit salad. We'll have to see how it plays. The concept may not survive the implementation, but it will be interesting to see what can be done. -
MMORPG's are about interaction with other players. Joining an org is just one form of interaction. You DON'T need to join an org to: Be a pirate hunting lone traders Group up temporarily to kill a local pirate RP in a cantina with random strangers Buy and sell items on the market Ask a master builder to build you a special ship Hire mercs for protection Find resources and sell the location to miners But you DO need to belong to an org (longterm group) to: Defend a territory claim Build a city and maintain/defend it Build a space station and defend it Go to war with another org Do large-scale mining and manufacturing There's room for everyone in a sandbox. Solo players don't stop orgs from doing anything. Independent players increase the player base, which makes the economy stronger, because there are a whole load of additional customers in the market. None of them will be self-sufficient, because it takes a lot of training and time to make everything yourself. And even if you do train all the skills, an organised mass-manufacturer will still make everything faster and cheaper than you will on your own.
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I disagree. The fewer producers there are, the less the competition and therefore the higher the prices of produced goods. In EVE, the prices of basic items are kept super low because it's easy for anyone to become a producer. The competition between 1000's of producers completely removes the effect of inflation in EVE. Prices stay relatively flat, even though the money supply is increasing rapidly. Common items should be cheap and widely available. If there are special high performance fuels, for instance, that is where it should become difficult for everyone to make it in their garden shed... Don't try to force people to play a certain way. It's a sandbox, all playstyles should be viable, including solo play. Rather offer incentives for grouping up, instead of penalties for not doing so.
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What I was trying to say is that a refinery "construct" may not need nearly as many elements to make it work as a ship would, but there's nothing stopping you from making the refinery look like a large complex building.
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Alternatively, you could build a large and complex structure using voxels, and then just plug a refinery element into it, along with a storage element, etc. and the whole structure becomes the "refinery". Ships are just a few elements wrapped in a large custom voxel structure that you shape any way you like.
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The gates will all be player-built, so whoever builds it automatically owns it. That need not be a problem though, the gate you are dialing from could perhaps query your access rights on destination gates, and simply not display invalid destination gates in the list of options. I suspect DU gates will be "fixed destination" though, it's just simpler to implement, given all the ramifications of access rights.
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I'll concede that my experiences in games like Mortal Online and Darkfall colour my view of things, because there was no room for non-pvper's there. They all left in the first month or two, and never returned. Those games had small game worlds (just like DU will have in year 1). It simply wasn't possible to evolve past tribalism, and in the absence of non-pvp'ers, nobody wanted to anyway. The "border" was never defensible, no part of your territory was ever more than a few minutes travel from danger. I'll also concede that it does work in EVE. It works because the mayhem CAN effectively be stopped in the border systems. EVE's massive game world facilitates that, because large numbers of systems are often only accessible via a few specific routes, which can be patrolled. It doesn't matter if there's constant conflict in those gateways, because it seldom penetrates deeper. Let's face it, the inner systems of a nullsec empire are probably the safest places in EVE, lol. Getting there was a hair-raising trip, but the rest was tranquility itself. Well, mostly... The border guard strike teams are not what I'd call a domestic police force, but in EVE they serve the purpose and remove the need for such a force anyway. You don't need bored neighbourhood cops when you have effective border guards. But we agree that it will take a year or two before DU is a "multi-system" game world. And probably several years before it gets anywhere near EVE's 4000+ normal-space systems. My focus was on the first year, when the starter system will be a giant pressure cooker, and I lost sight of the longer term in the process. How we'll keep the "builders" in the game through that first year in DU is anyone's guess. The general perception of DU will be formed in that first year, unfortunately, and that will be very hard to change later.
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I have often seen players perform "police" jobs in MMO's... for an hour or two, and more often than not in response to a few ganks that already took place. I have never seen anyone do it permanently though. In an MMO, a successful policing exercise means the people involved will have nothing to do 90% of the time, because the area they're responsible for will have been secured. They'll be patrolling and waiting for something to happen, just like neighbourhood police do in RL. And eating doughnuts... If "community policing" is viable, why do we need a safe zone around the arkship ?
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Will automation be a first class citizen in the game
NanoDot replied to maxZZzzz's topic in General Discussions
The following is my current understanding of the scripting: In DU, there are items (ship parts, structure doors, light fittings, etc.) that are created by NQ, called "elements". These elements will have predefined functions which will be able to be accessed from within Lua scripts (e.g. turn light ON, turn light OFF). Players cannot define new functions for elements, only use what NQ provides. Players will craft these elements, probably using blueprints. Combat actions will not be accessible from Lua scripts, so no way to fire guns via a Lua script, for example, otherwise a single player would be able to fly a battleship by themselves and fire all 20 cannons remotely. It seems that the intention of the Lua scripting is not to allow automation, but rather to modify the behaviour of the element. So a factory unit will probably not have a Load.Blueprint.From.Inventory() function, but rather something like Increase.Operating.Speed(), for example, which may increase it's power draw as a side-effect. -
Truth is, DU may require MORE mining than EVE, because not only does the mining feed the shipbuilding industry, but it also supplies the infrastructure building industry (i.e planetary bases, space stations, stargates, etc.). And in DU mining is done manually, there's no massive mining ships hoovering-up megatons of ore... That doesn't mean you have to mine though. Find an org that makes their living from other activities, or fill a role that doesn't require mining, like security perhaps. Of course, it's impossible to tell at this point how things will work out in practice, because we don't know the details of the final implementation. We don't know how many hours of mining it will take to build a small, medium or large ship. We don't know what the intensity of PVP will be, which means we don't know how many ships will need to be replaced every day. We don't know how many resources will be needed to build a base or a space station.
