Dygz_Briarthorn

1: The 40 hours includes time designing, gathering materials and... testing Lua scripting as will likely be the case for ships. Rebuilding won't take as long designing, but gathering building materials will take hours. And gathering fuel for ships will likely take hours. 2: "Fact of life" is irrelevant. Dual Universe is a game; not real life. The devs are going to design the game for what's fun for Builders as well as what's fun for Fighters. The balance of gameplay is not going to be the same it is for games where you can simply purchase a new ship from an NPC vendor. The solution will not be simple, but it will need to be fair. Otherwise, Builders will stop building - and then there's no point in having a voxel game. 3: At this time, we don't need a new thread for players to devise "solutions". We need to play the game first to see if the devs' design strategies feel fair and then we can help tweak whatever they've already implemented.

The same cannot be said for the attacker because both Builders and Fighters will have to spend time acquiring gear and upgrading skills. If it takes Builders 40 hours to build contstructs and Fighters 5 minutes to destroy those contrsucts - Builders will stop building. It's not worth the effort. Blatantly unfair for Fighters to have their fun in a handful of minutes while it takes builders tens of hours to have their fun. The devs will definitely balance that since they've stated that Dual Universe is as much a building game as it is a PvP combat game.

That devblog actually mentions two times that we will need food. But, as I said elsewhere, I don't think it's going to be minute-to-minute like a survival game.

If we have implants, I'd love for them to be visible on our avatars - like cyber-tattoos.

This has me wondering what other forms of fuel and propulsion we might discover on alien planets or via alien science.

Ha. I don't think we can steal designs/blueprints or LUA code. Probably not stuff in inventory. Constructs, we can probably abscond with those. Yeah.

Bartering wouldn't be standard, though. Negotiate moment to moment.

1: The devblog specifically states we will be able to build in safe zones. That's the primary reason for having safe zones. Two of the options for the safe zones are open world. One of the safe zone options is to build in a virtual sim. Can't design without building. It's possible that the constructs built in the virtual sim won't be able to leave the virtual sim, but that's really meaningless when we're talking about ships. Just need to have the resources and the blueprint. 2: Your usage of "best" appears to be "cookie-cutter, flavor of the month". But that is still subjective... even if there is a majority consensus. Your cosmetic example is completely irrelevant. Parameters which will effect perceptions of "best" will include weapons, shielding, speed, fuel-efficiency, engineering, life-support, scanning/communications, cloaking, etc. And those will be based on a variety of parameters, such as advanced character skills and discoveries of new elements - as well as player LUA scripting. Different orgs are going to be more interested in some systems than others. Orgs focused on exploration may have weapons lowest on their hierarchy and upgrade weapons by trading or purchasing them from other orgs rather than designing weapons systems themselves. Exploration orgs may also develop or discover the best designs for cloaking and scanning. While battle-focused orgs develop and discover the best designs for weapons and shielding. So, it's not really about the "best" ships. The best systems will be objective. Some org will have designs for the most powerful weapons or the strongest shielding. But some other org may have the designs for most fuel-efficient engines, most powerful scanners or most powerful cloaking devices. That's what people will be buying and selling - along with ships and designs that have a variety of configurations of those systems. It may also be that we will discover designs from a variety of alien races that people will want put on the market. Seems likely since there will be alien ruins. a} Many people don't care enough about rock, paper, scissors for that to be a factor determining what is best. If they love rocks, rocks will always be best. That's an aspect of roleplaying that is different than competitive gaming. For instance, my Ice Wizard in NWO only uses Ice spells. Doesn't matter if a particular Repel spell is more powerful than a particular Ice spell because Ice fits my character's theme, interests and personality while Repel doesn't. Roleplaying always trumps combat, so in that case Ice spells are always better than Repel spells. Repel spells have no value for that character. b} If a character in DU is a peacenik, carebear who refuses to use weapons, weapons have no value for that character. A ship with no weapons will always be better than a ship with weapons. But the examples that will be more common is those peacenik explorers for whom weapons have had low value may find them selves in a predicament where they suddenly want/need to upgrade their weapons and they don't have anyone in the org who has sufficient weapon skills to build those upgrades. Likewise, an org that had a low value on stealth may find themselves in a predicament where they have to rely on cloaking to successfully maneuver through a hostile solar system, but they don't have Builders with sufficient skills in cloaking to provide the needed cloaking devices. c} "Simple enough" is unlikely to really be a thing. People are going to want better systems that support their interests. "Good enough" will very likely be a thing. As in some people will think that a ship with maximum speed, maximum cloaking and minimal weapons is "good enough for now". And good enough that it actually is considered to be best for now, especially if they are peacenik, carebears. Some people will think that superfast, fuel-efficient solo scout ships are the best - some people will think that battlecruisers with the most powerful weapons are the best. Rather than rock, paper, scissors - it will generally be the arms race of better rock, better rock, better rock (where the rock is a specific system like weapons or engines) 3: There really is no "meta" for "good" ship. What there is in many MMOs is a consensus of a cookie-cutter, flavor-of-the-month, best-in-slot build (for combat). I don't believe that really applies in voxel games. And won't apply with the kinds of designs we'll have from players and devs in Dual Universe. But, even so... you may tell me that you have a ship available that is good because it has the most powerful weapons, heavy-duty shields, decent speed, decent fuel-efficiency but no cloaking. If I'm a peacenik, carebear explorer who refuses to use weapons and who relies on maximum speed and the most powerful cloaking to survive, your ship is not a good ship from my perspective. Because what I value as good is different than what you value as good. Where your org is focused on the most glorious military battles and my org is focused on the most knowledgeable exploration, our Builders will very likely have very different skill sets. As unpredictable challenges arise, we may need to rely on each other in order to meet that challenge. Bottom line is: there will be ample opportunity for people to buy and sell and trade - because there will be a constant flow of new discoveries from different individuals and different orgs. And those discoveries will have significant impact on how we navigate through the game... as opposed to simply building constructs that look nice, but don't actually do anything. And...I'm done. You can have the last word if you want.

1: It is relevant to what you were saying. You stated that we cannot build in safe zones. The devblogs state that we will be able to build in safe zones - the safe zones are specifically for Builders to be able to build without being interrupted by pvp. Constructs will remain in the safe zones until the Builders move them out of the safe zone... or until the safe zone is deactivated. Builders are unlikely to remain in safe zones forever - they will likely want to travel to other locations for advanced resources, etc. And, whenever they move to a new location, they will have to create a new safe zone. Yes. 2: Best is still going to be relative. 10 blocks may be perceived as best to some and not best to others - 2 thrusters and 1 pilot seat do not indicate "best". That just indicates personal preference. You may prefer to pilot alone, I may prefer to co-pilot. But, again, those cosmetic designs won't be what determines "best" for individuals. Personal interests will be what determines "best" in terms of ship design and those will be subjective. Some people may perceive speed to be "best" while others perceive fuel efficiency to be "best". The Builders who are great at maximizing speed in their designs may not be in the same org as the Builders who excel at maximizing fuel efficiency. 3: You may not be comparing fighters with exploration ships; but organizations will be. If the org decides they want some of their fighters to have greater speed than what their Builders are capable of creating, they will have to find some means to obtain those designs. They may have to people outside of their org. If the Builders who maximize speed demand payment for their designs. 4: Well, hopefully, the engineers will need to have some player understanding of how to fit the conduit elements together and advanced character engineering skills. Perhaps a bit of LUA knowledge and perhaps a decent amount of voxelmancy.

Hmmn. Velenka's post (along with today's Q&A response and people speculating about skill levels) has me thinking about diverting energy to different systems in the ship. The crew of the USS Enterprise would often divert extra energy to shields or extra energy to shields or life support. Another factor in coveted designs might be the linking of energy conduits in a manner that most efficiently diverts power to key systems in crucial moments. https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/841-ask-us-anything-event/?p=9215

1: Two out of the three examples we have for building in safe zones allow building constructs in open world areas that are untouchable by pvp mechanics. One of the three examples is a virtual sim, similar to creative mode. If they implement virtual sim, we may not be able take the constructs built there out of the sim. But, that's a 33% chance at this point. 66% chance that they will go with contructs being built in safe zones where the pvp modes have been deactivated similar to the Ark safe zones. (And we can, of course build in the Ark safe zones free from pvp). 2: It's not necessarily the features that we will have in the game that will decide whether constructs will be "hard to build". "Better" is subjective. What is "better" will depend on the interests of the specific consumer/client. 3: Again, "good ship" is subjective. There may be many people who in an org who know how to build a ship with powerful shields and powerful weapons - but no nothing about building ships with cloaking devices and fuel-efficient engines. That's not simply going to be a factor of being a great voxelmancer. That's going to be dependent upon who discovers the tech for cloaking and how the blueprints for that tech are shared. Fuel-efficiency may be more about engineering piping elements than voxel manipulation. An org might have excellent voxelmancers and average engineers or vice-versa. 4: Arkification has been confirmed. The specific method of Arkification has not been confirmed.

There will be enough safe zones for those who want one.

----https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/08/17/about-the-alpha-gameplay/#more-313

Builders like to build. They don't necessarily care about profit or politics. Keep in mind that Builders will be able to build in safe zones - though, I'm not sure that's relevant. People will buy from those they deem competent and credible. Great Builders will have considerable reputation - many will not be willing to sacrifice their reputations in order to sabotage or compromise their own builds. So, expect an ample amount of Builders who are neutral. Having a medium to large organization doesn't guarantee the best designs. Likely those orgs will have Builders who can create ships designs that meet the org's desires. But, we can expect constant innovation. There will likely come a time when Builders outside of the org create designs that are more desirable than the designs manufactured by the specific org. That's where trade and diplomacy come in. "Hard to build" will cover a range of parameters: size, complexity, scripting, etc. Fuel, radiation shielding, scanners, life support, medical... all systems have to work. NQ has already hinted that managing the resources necessary for interstellar travel sans Star Gate will be difficult. Fuel storage, food storage, etc will all be challenging. The ships will have to be designed to deal with those challenges even if they don't primarily engage in combat. Some might have the added challenge of maintaining cloaking systems. An organization focused on pvp combat might make great battle-cruisers heavy on shielding and weapons but have poor designs for fuel efficiency or cloaking. So, having their own builders won't necessarily mean they have no interest in obtaining designs their own Builders can't manufacture. I typically don't buy from other players. Most likely, I will either barter with friends or settle for prefab dev designs.

Dual Universe plans to have some food management requirements; just not at the extreme of survival games.

Building area will probably be the limiting factor rather than the size of the stuff a factory can build. You can create a factory building if you want to, but the devs are going to want to control the code that dictates how quickly objects can be built. If you want to piece together modular objects to make a large one, you will be able to do so.

We'll probably have some sub-sets of Builders: Designers get a lot of enjoyment out of designing new objects. Crafters get enjoyment from the crafting and reproduction aspects. Harvesters enjoy gathering resources. Designers will keep tweaking the designs of their blueprints - really has nothing to do whether ships are destroyed. We will be manufacturing ships from blueprints in any case - regardless of whether we're mass-producing. But, as vylqun suggests, mass-production will still require construction materials and other resources, like fuel. Gathering all the materials will still be time-consuming. Gathering the fuel will be as well. And then the ships still have to travel. Just because a bunch of ships are created in a matter of minutes doesn't mean they will all be ready for battle or ready to voyage the same day or even the same week.

Seems as though we will all at least have an AI companion like Aphelia.

Seems like the Arkships will barely have enough room for people - I doubt there will be many animals brought along from Earth. They'd be several thousands of years old and not hooked up for cryosleep. The sim world for "alpha" might not have alien fauna. When we truly leave the Arkships, those worlds will have alien fauna. Many of the worlds will also have alien ruins. May take us a while to uncover "intelligent" aliens who are still alive.

Still wrong thread, but: https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/12/04/from-barter-to-market-economy/

Order of Meru is the evil side.

Well, we certainly do have to think about what the primary game genre is. Dual Universe is not primarily a survival game, so we should not expect food and drink to be a focus to the degree it is in a survival game such as H1Z1. H1Z1 also has building, but building in that game is secondary to staying alive. Dual Universe is a voxel game primarily about gathering resources and building structures. Those activities are going to be time-consuming enough wiithout also being forced to gather food and drink every 15 or 20 minutes. Enforcing sleep is also not conducive for voxel-building gameplay. But, as Klatu says, it's fine to require food and drink as long as it's not overly intrusive. Once every several hours. As we're out harvesting for resources, finding a "logout" location is also going to be problematic. Unless we can carry portable shelters along with us. I'm actually more interested in countering radiation and toxic atmosphere when it comes to the survival aspects of Dual Universe, but again, as a more long term obstacle than minute by minute.

*meh* I already saw a cool holo-table, like, a month earlier than this original post.

We'll have to see how many people fit on a cruiser. 100 players may only be 5-10 cruisers. A cruiser to cruiser battle should probably last 20-30 minutes at least. How long will it take to build and/or repair a cruiser? When it takes hours or days or months to build a cruiser, FPS paced combat which can destroy a cruiser isn't balanced gameplay. Action-paced is relative. In the demo we've seen, that solo ship is flying at an action pace and would lose a tab-target lock as seen in WoW or EQ in just a handful of seconds. We'll have to play the game to see how easy it is to maintain a target lock on solo ships as they maneuver around through space. We don't actually know what that will feel like in Dual Universe. What we do know is that combat needs to be slow enough for various tactical teams on cruisers to be able to respond with countermeasures. "Realistic", "immersive", "fun", "satisfying" are all subjective. And, again, we have to keep in mind who the primary target audience is - players who wish to be able to destroy objects at an action pace or players who will be taking days and weeks to build complex objects. FPS pace is great when players and objects can just respawn and jump back into the fray in a matter of seconds. It's not optimal for RPG tactics or games where it takes several hours or days or weeks to build objects. Again, "demanding" is subjective. All kinds of ways to make exploration interesting without combat being the primary focus. Survival in space won't necessarily be about combat in a game that's hoping to include toxicity, etc. Avoiding radiation fields or solar flares - resupplying fuel. We don't know what kinds of challenges and obstacles will be implemented, but it doesn't have to be primarily about combat. And I hope space exploration is not primarily about combat. But, with open PvP in most areas, I expect combat to be readily available. All-human avatars in space is not at all realistic. Also, the lore already mentions alien ruins. I don't know how often we will be encountering non-human NPC pilots - realistically, it should happen at some point. I expect the vast majority of space combat will be human players who originated in Arkships from Earth.