le_souriceau

Haunty is right, its trully too many assumptions, considering quality of info we have (while I like to make them myself!). Obviously NQ have their internal challanges, as every company -- its kinda normal. Especily in difficult creative field. But, I must say, that my personal (short) experience with french working/buisness culture was honestly... very bad. Being russian (likely with my own annoying quirks) I sometimes felt like I'm on edge of total meltdown from their style of doing things, french meetings is something! Interestingly, in other short experience, I really liked how americans roll things, much less BS, to put it bluntly.

PROBLEM is, that we still not know all what will be included in 0.24. As russian proverb goes -- "spoon of tar in barrel of honey" -- still totaly possible. So I'm kinda on overwatch about all this, ready for suprises.

@UnderVerse, good question. As one of people who sometimes goes agressive on "retired solos" or players in similiar time wealth, I'll try to explain. Generaly, I'm strongly for diversity and place for everyone in game (who interested in its wider concept). I believe its not even possible, but desirable and hate this argument "not your game". Even will be first to fight here with fury, if some old timer (or not so old), who just want to grind and build in peace someway unjustly deprived of his pursuit of happyness by bad disign or bad people using this bad disign. Yet. I hate, when such guys go sort of "wolf in sheep skin". Per example. Lets say game have some feature, that considered unbearable grindy for majority of people and beg devs to change it, so they can have some fun a last. At this moment our "retired solo" (or someone of same situation) appears and states - NO! Its totaly ok and balanced. Keep it and make even harder! Don't listen this whiners. Because I have this 12-16 hours in day every day, I play since Dinosaur times of pre-pre-pre-alpha, already grinded 1000 boxes of stuff and interested in grinding next 10 years. Its even more intolerable, when such guys percieve themelves not just as humble builders, but as great traders or so called industrialists -- they act even more obnoxious and even more loaded with greed and self-importance. Such people have my black mark of sorts.

For me worst part of 0.23 (even besides other endless things to discuss, pros and cons), that way it was implemented caused heavy population damage in situation when DU was already not exactly crowded. I think there is no need to explain to MMO vets how dangerous is population bleeding for such games...

I think its WAY more complicated/dual thing. Because pewpew crowd quite diverse (consisting not only from bloodthristy degenerates) and, most importantly, they... even if this sounds strange -- serious agents of "civilization" (via meaningful organizational gameplay, politics, drama ). I don't exactly like local "civilization" talks (JC kinda spoiled term with his... fantasy talks), but generaly it mean global player interaction. And lets be honest -- Landmark nerds and so called industrialists who is given pretty much carte blanche to prosper in current ultra safe enviroment, gone generaly solo (small introverted groups), bothering about others only to annoyingly show off their next fancy build or sell some overpriced crap and hoard even more stuff. In this regard I consider them a total failure in all this "civilization building" narrative. I see very little fruits of it. Sure they like to preach about how useful they are and "civilization die" if they wiped (and noobs presumably absolutly dying to see things they built/hoarded), but this is pretty egoistic BS I personaly consider irrelevant. So, sure, harsh PvP can produce... harsh world (may be even destoy it), but at least I see it as better chance (for game too), then another eternity of boredom show of all this lazy fat cats sitting on 1000 containers and sending nothing interesing into wider space.

Yep, all over the place. I ended up with very conflicted feelings, because in sandbox RPGs I like mostly sand part (all additional content opportunities, immersion activities) with story more of bonus... And CB kinda kicks you in balls in this department. Overall, most "bad" part for me was inherent conflict between plot and sandbox part of game. Plot constantly urges you "faster", "you have no time" (like really!), "its all meaningless", V himself/herself crying about it... AND! You have all this mockery of chores -- people offering your buy new cars, bother you with minor problems, etc -- all this stuff feels completly irrelevent, like rows and rows of footware shops to guy with legs cut by train. In Skyrim, Witcher 3 or Kingdom Come (to remember some open world RPGs), final is pretty open, so you can guess your character have some future and can use money/things/positions you aquire for them, so you hard job not in vain (kinda). I like this. But CP is complete opposite, like (almost) all you actions feels in vain. May be one "best" final not as bad as others, but still dodgy.

Bingo. Majority of critics here (even most "apocalyptic") not directly about current state of game -- everyone in sane mind understand indy difficulties and that DU is especialy hard case of ambition. Its about lack of communication and, what is even more important, transperant communication. Why its so impossible for NQ, per expample, to make some short text digest of what they worked on/done during week? What they planning or thinking about, testing, having difficulties with? Why all this secrecy, considering game not anymore in NDA? Exactly this kinda stimulates worst in peoples expectations, because every MMO vet I think perfectly knows, that in most cases communication silence is worst possible sign for MMO -- its hiding of some shit. Generaly we reached point, when every update feels like "nasty suprise" -- 0.24 likely be another milestone.

It not helps, that overall DU much more meta-game centered -- voxel building, lua coding and other activites (that likely grow in numbers) generaly not connected to any character skills, and especialy not demand go deep into them beyond some conviencies like better flying or container things, more cores. Half-year into game and I (being mostly meta-game player) already leveling things I likely not need.

From Xsolla site:

Its not big deal people kinda playing for free (considering state of affairs its hardly divine boon), but its completly non-ethical towards people who actualy paying sub for exactly same thing. I honestly not understand why to use such... trickery? It was more honest just to give everyone another bonus month as NY present or some made up stuff (company birthday, day when JC born this ideas -- who cares) and thats it. Everyone with some critical thinking process understands, that 0.23 was rough spot and some damage control is ok, especialy if its gives something positive to players (like more playtime).

It was happening for some time now (like from late december?) and not kept as secret -- openly discussed in several places. Yet I can't remember any official reaction/comment from NQ (while they obviously know at this point).

At least we can exploit F2P players labour with incoming mission system, because we will be rich premium kings or something.

Deja vu? : ) “We’ve been working on Dual Universe for over four years, and after completing the foundation for all main gameplay pillars, we’re presenting a solid idea of what this unique game offers to players, and a fully playable game for Beta.” said Novaquark CEO Jean-Christophe Baillie. 07/08/2020, Gamasutra

Its actualy was mentioned in several gaming press sources in 2020. I feel lazy to find all, but here is quote from Forbes article about Beta: "Novaquark, announced its ambitious, sci-fi epic sandbox MMO will hit Beta on August 27th with a full launch planned for 2021." Overall I think its very possible timeframe, no red flags! (quality and cut corners is another topic, obviously).

I think at this point NQ (behind doors) likely to regret their decision to kinda promise "no wipe". If we look retrospectivly, it given them very little -- playerbase still sharply dropped (with all other accompanying consequences) . Yet, at same time, took away from them ability to go more agressive with new features/changes and overall maneurability of development. Now they binded themselfs to sort of 2 chairs sitting limbo, when they need to move forward in dangerous balancing spots, but not make too much mistakes, and its hard (like 0.23 issues). And many people totaly eat their liver if actualy resort to wipe (still a possibility).

Its complex issue. NQ kinda lost initial hypetrain over civilization building/organizational gameplay early on (via slow development and unsufficient social tools). Just check org section forums over 2016-2017 -- a lot of activity, interesting, quality content, drama (rerely, if ever, seen now). People you never see again. Wasted. Ultra-social "civ builders" types are quite sensetive lot, so they left in chain reaction of loosing interest, when understood, that their grand plans are in years from possibility to be even started. "Mining universe" is where construct builders and so called industrialists can survive (even thrive), yet they mostly self-centered and lack any serious ambition or motivation to do civilization. They are happy with their full containers/billions or another fancy ship to show and brag about. Sure, some cooperate in their local "villages" but this never goes futher. PvPers who are from both worlds kinda (social, but also "materialistic") in complicated, borderline position, this is quite observable in PvP/territory wars discussions.

While you right, that larger/hardcore groups have advantage in pure gameplay competition (kinda obvious reality), I think you bit demonizing/giving "larger" orgs here way too much credit. Absolute majority of them completly disfunctional paper tigers with up to 95% members not even playing game anyomore (or, in some older cases, not exist, because of alt accounts and outright fakes with only quick forum registrations for numbers). Also many of them totaly decentralized (so big org only in name, in plactice -- tiny groups/solos doing their stuff). Actual mobilization reserves are joke for most entities. A lot can be said here... At any rate, if you have half-dozen active buddies, you quite OK in local pigmy world. With dozen of hardcore dudes you can compete with almost everyone. Woop ass of some emperor or president of another long fancy name federation like no sweat.

Its very primitive, divisive concept (yet somehow ultra-popular between more "positive-minded" players), that people who more or less "behave" themselves are good for game/true playerbase and those who not (in different aspects of critics) -- are like only dreaming for its failure day and night, totaly not even playing. Reality is far more complicated grey area. Like some mega-vocal simp silently quit (to never be seen again), and grumpy-endless-posts guy still playing, even invited couple of friends. Who, in reality, speaking in your terms, are more useful for game and its continuation? Also, speaking of examples, I think contributing factor of negativity here, that people like to fight not with ideas/opinions (by counter-arguments) but attack each other personaly (even if little bit masked way, like you do, Burble, with Blaze).

Called freedom of speach/expression. Why you still here too? You can make another topic about racing or something, if not enjoying this elite club of delopment analytics.

On surface you right -- forum (Discord to some extent) now filled with quite unpleasant reading (and -- obviously -- irrelevant in wider picture). Even more, I think, most of reasonably self-critical "usual suspects" will agree. I myself want to see more reasons to have positive discussions. Yet, your logic is deeply flawed. Exact reason why people still wasting their energy here is because they care about game (granted -- now in quite bad way). Speaking of "to put off" -- no, most of this people in question in some point were (or still) seriously involved with game, invited a lot of friends (some even bought them copies) etc, made organizations, content. So they contibuted to survival of game. Its not some band of whiney degenerates who hates game and scares away newbies. No, mostly its ok productive people in bad mood, totaly targed audience playerbase. Root cause of this, that 99% start from quite reasonable critics, ideas (not doom and gloom), but NQ quite miserably fails to manage this, channel such energies if not on something useful, then at least harmless. With growth of frustration, overall negativity grows too, eventualy to ugly forms we observe daily. In this light I constantly deeply questioning overall CMing strategy of this project.

As you 5 min ago posted in nearby topic: "Stop whining. Git gud". Double standards, mate, so double.

I was better just to close it. For years this section existed as exercise in futility, because NQ obviously have no capacity to meaningfully process stuff people posting (let alone -- implement something).

I think there is serious political factor. While small fish is beyond NQ energy to even bother, big troublemakers are... kinda hard to remove. If NQ seriously decides to crack down on them hard and without exeptions, we obviously see some well known names of players and orgs on chopping block -- and guys will not go down silently. They instantly (and rabidly) counter-attack with immense amount of stink and anti-PR (all sorts of hysteria on forums, discords and social media). This something I doubt NQ, being seriously dusted even during minor skirmish about M15, ready to experience time soon. So they... tacticly forgiving.

Its mostly because game population not only dropped overall drasticly, its also dropped disproportionaly -- 1st wave newbies/casauls (main buyers force, at least prior 0.23) took hardest hit, and all sorts of... of more hardcore and no life people (who are mostly producing force) retained interest better. Also most stuff overpriced to idiocy levels like there is no tomorrow. To be honest, I even doubt, that wider PvP change something too fantasticly at this point -- whole game disign is deeply flawed.

By my experience its not always that linear. I seen thing happening in MMOs couple of times: 1) Low-ranking employee/former emp has informal relations with player X. I doubt this is not exists in DU too (its almost always exists on MMO scene to some extent). Such relations can produce (even unintentional) leak on clues about future. 2) Player X tells player Y (his friend) some of this in secret and, to make things worse, being smart (or having good fantasy) uses clues to predict this or that. Wipe. Nerf. Things. Sometimes accuratly -- sometimes not. 3) Y tells his buddy Z (in secret too, obviously). 4) Player Z cant resist temptation and leaks it public/semi public, claiming its reliable source (but being securly far from it to bust it). Chain from may be longer. Such leaking quite hard to track, for most part important people in chain prefer to be banned then talk, even if "captured and interrogated", so employee-leaker is quite safe. Sure she/he may face anger of bosses with others, but never be single outed reliably. I even suspect (based on my investigations before) this how we had some leaks in past here too. So to topic: its possible. Yet with NQs... dynamic process everything can change, so even if they discussed wipe, this not means they do it or not change how its rolled (magic BP etc), even last moment. So -- not reliable.