le_souriceau

^ This. Its even very easy to trace with objective evidence of NQs (JCs) blablabla if you dig in old stuff. Initialy DU was promised as very PvP-centered game (it was main/only reason why some people particiapated in KS). Then its U-turned to some lame Landmark-2 with elements of PvP (and even then most of them heavly downgraded in importance and postponed to somewhere in future).

This video... They. Talk. Literaly. About. Another. Game.

I decided to have some summer break from DU. While I can write several pages why (and poisonous way too), in short DU (so far?) failed for me as game I most desired -- game with player-made states, politics, diplomacy and all this stuff. Maybe its somewhere in future, maybe not. At any rate, I for moment leave most DU related Discords to not be tempted and supend my wannabe press activities. I wish everyone still staying around patience.

Looks like he is now in some comfortable french-only bubble, fantasizing about "civilization building" like in old good times. Why?

I think not much of "haters" left to enjoy too : ) Anyway, stay in relative touch, Blaze, there is other space game around and their worlds not that big to not meet again. I myself kinda in limbo state myself with trust crisis, realisation how JC shamelessly lied playing with generaly empty hand as now revealed when going to release and even later "no red flags" (while he perfectly knew real situation), grows on me everyday.

Its I kinda messed with logic of my post/was in hurry, making MC example that was used against me in way : ) Let me throw some clarifications. 1) Defining builders. Most of MC players (statisticly -- over this millions upon millions) surely built something, fooled around with blocks, but generaly what can be called "builders" both in MC and in DU -- its same minority who go into it really serious (at least for some time). MC just allows enter more causualy, but for most people it stops somewhere before building cities or giant fancy statues in creative for 1000s of hours. 2) Yes, I spend several years playing very activly (doing also some admin stuff), but its more of expection. 99% people I ever seen playing around me gone. So retention is not that fantastic, but flow of new ones was massive (hype). 3) Also, its was not question of subs or even for most people bying of legit copy (in my country) back then. Changes things too a bit. So, to re-iterate (and also correct it to bit softer form) -- I doubt, they building (as primary thing) can carry niche hardrore eve-like mmo with sub. Or something like that. Usualy such things carried by PvP.

Because coming from years of MC, I can say, that builders stamina is relativly finite resource. For sure, DU has very mature audience with hugely superior attention spans, then MC youngsters (on average), but even they have some soft-cap limits on how long they can be occupied with building. Obviously resting and revigoration occures, but general trajectory is to some sort of creative end, when you done all you wanted/tired doing it/catched "priority" interests somewhere else. It was discusussed I think ad nauseam here, that while builders are very convinient part of community to use in pseudo-marketing NQ so adores, they not demographic who can really "carry" game financialy.

Well, its not that hard "guessing" math. Currently like 38 k Sanctuary claims. Its safe to assume, that 99% of legit new players put their TCU on. Some obviously just alt placings, but they are hard to pinpoint, so lets be super generous and just ignore them (this also balance some cases, when people not placed TCU for some reason intentionaly or just quited at start). So, we had 38 k "players" (both from KS era and new ones, some alts) who achieved stage of placing TCU. This brings 2 questions. 1) How much of this number can be considered "active" (and to what extent), because obviously, there is a lot of "dead" ones. 2) What is concurrency ratio for numbers left. My guess, that we have several thousands players still reasonably "active" (loggin in regulary, even if for short time) and they form several hundreds concurrent (at least in prime time). In short, game not totaly empty, but population is very low for healthy MMO.

Yeah just buy guy who proposing this puzzles all the time some 300 pages sudoku book and incancereate him in toiled cabin with it. Enough of this crap. What we need is physcial (persistant) asteroid belt with some randomization and regen cabability (per exemple by zone updating when there is no players present around) + ore scanner. No warp around in big radius.

Its most dodgy part in whole equasion. Online gaming landscape (on many layers) changed last 15 or so years, so DU face much harder task and grabbing/holding target audience comparing to EVE back then (practicaly enjoying monopoly in respective niche). So, in way DU kinda aimed to reproduce success of EVE, but at same time its not something you can really reproduce without time machine. Snail pace of development also seriously crippled overall momentum, with huge demographic losses of precious super-target audience people (who may never return).

Yep, I agree, FF14 way its only trully right choice in current situation. But so far NQ showed almost complete lack of proverbial balls in dealing even with much lesser problems in disign/balance, so expecting them go brave in such cataclysmic one is mostly daydreaming. Even JC silently gone to back seat, having no courage to actually talk with players personaly and apologize for his mistakes, that brought us to this sad point. So more likely we'll see years of desperate patchworking.

I suspect because they afraid too bother "amazing creations" and they lobbying amazing creators. So they not need to be re-build (in case of ships) or become irrelevant (like space stations that unable to sustain huge industry).

Without avid PvP scene (despite all difficulties to establish it) this game is good as dead. Because hardcore peaceful players (who can do their thing for years) are serious minority, more casual peaceful players have generaly "lifespan" of several months, they grind, do all what they wanted (or have patience to) and quit, often forever, because story is exausted for their short attention span. So, its mostly up to more or less involved PvP players to pay big chunk of "keeping game alive" money, with draggin in buddies, alts, ocasional returns to "check new combat balance", etc.

Game will be better eventualy, sure, to level of quite (solo/coop) enjoyable bastard of Landmark and space simulator with some pvp for entusiasts. Yet bigger train of initial ambition likely missed forever. I wanted to be wannabe journalist in dynamic, war-torn eve-like world, but ended up on some used cars shitty catalogue dump with all this amazing creations and impossibly boring nerds.

Overall good, realistic. Likely meaning new Roadmap and 2022 release. Still, as I said before in Discord, we badly needed such clarity 2 years ago (this why in terms of disign direction this time feels wasted), then now we all be in bit better spot. But better late then never, right. Looks like JC "retirement" was beneficial thing for process.

If they drasticly impove quality of product, then sustainable income kinda... squeezable from relativly small, but super dedicated population. Not pretty, but somewhat realistic way, ol good pay 4 win and heavy whale hunt. 1) Raise of sub cost (like 12$). 2) Agressive alt milking (so serious number of people paying x3-x4 and more). 3) Most importantly, not only cosmetics shop, all sort of boosters and other expensive desired crap. 4) Good sales of DACs to the pile.

I know, just fooling around a bit. Mostly its about my own "non-critical holydays" to give things clear our a bit. But, even in worst case, to be fair, its nothing personal. For Nick its just buisness and its his money, he not promised or sold us anything in comparison to JC. Still, I hope, NQ will be given one more chance to realise vision of the game and use it better this time.

Yep, I think its not that big deal, considering very humble number of active subbers. Sums in question barely comparable to multi-million investement needed to re-vitalized NQ. Its question how much courage NQ will gather to own mistakes and roll back (in some parts -- back to the drawing board).

I'll give Nick one month of grace period to sort mess (JC left him) out. Not super trust guy, but kinda have cautious hope, that he can du something with DU. One thing that I still see absolutly critical for NQ to improve fast(er) -- comms. Ideally -- re-think whole mode of opetations, go for KS promises about transperancy and using players feedback in innovative ways. Before this was more of joke. But now there is a chance do it without any jokes. Comms can be both "start of rebirth" point (if changed) and "same old shit" return to swamp (if not).

Yep, honest "we were wrong", overhaul plan (of many game mechanics) + 1 year of Beta (at least) + wipe and fresh start with serious marketing push. Problem is, many people are not exactly keen on wipe (to say the least!), prefering to do all kind of mental aerobics to justify why they must keep their stuff (generaly by any cost), even if it means less chances of game to be succesful.

I keep hearing it again and again. But, realistlicy, while this tech (or more correctly: NQ solutions bases on existing/known things) sounded rather cool back then 6-7 years ago, by now others can (if really want) reproduce similiar or, likely, more competent variants of it. DU tech, while bragged about a lot, very clumsy in practical implementation, with horrible optimisation, barely working PvP netcode and myriad of other shennegians -- likely with some inherent and deep flaws. Generaly, NQ wasted years of stuggle to make it somewhat work, to extent, that they left no time for actual development of gameplay. So, I highly doubt, that whole this package at this point (and with already strained reputation) cost anything big. Sure, someone can use it as reference point, scavenging material for own research, but thats it. Not astronomical sums in question.

Yep, greatly pains me to this day. Overall, as I concluded for my self over research and latest news -- in terms of WHY this was like this... I think despite all blablabla of super innovation, they kinda botched techical part of development very early on, to catasprophic levels of things not working for years, until practicaly 1st month of so called Beta start (something they indeed never admited "transperantly"). So, development of actual gameplay (things about we "feedbacked" in agony) suprisignly never was priority. They just wasted everyone's time and passion, doing some mocking pretending of listeing feedback (15 k posts in "ideas") -- and in practice just throwing together some hastly, low effort mix of (bad) parroting of Eve and (JC?) "civilization-building" fantasies in very little time they left from tech stugges. While I maybe missing nuances (because again -- zero transperancy) but strongly believe this is DU general story until this day. With crowning achievment of 0.23.

To be fair, it was not like JC was stubbornly and totaly "alone" in ideas, that manifested in 0.23 disaster. Not just thing from his head. He was a bit helped to slide into it too. Often forgetten thing, that there were small, but very vocal (but well connected in terms of access to right ears) group of simps, who chanted to no end, that "people not need to do everything", hystericly dreaming, that if NQ make life of average more causual player hell, they will be golden. With their already huge industry or other "services" they ready to provide to ruined players. But once 0.23 backfired catasprophicly, they all kinda go silent, quit themeselves or even U-turned in their "ideas".

Yes I thinking about this too -- like mr. Granatino will soon find out, that mr. Baillie... told him not all truth about actual state of affairs. Seen it IRL, once in place I worked. Like new leadership instantly gone from mild patronizing optimism (right after aqusition), to rabid WTF mode (when figured out they were tricked), kicking everyones butts and closing place in 2 months.

Still, Honvik doing right thing to escalating it at least ot level of forum, it may (with minor % chance) give some traction to issue. May be Naerais notice it and kick someone (if in good mood), who knows... Sitting silently on complicated ticket (that demands some work from NQ) if you lowly commoner is almost for sure way to nowhere.