Sephrajin

People running missions are making billions. People hand calibration mining are not. Charges are limited and throttled.
 
This change only hurts solo players, new players, and small orgs. 

This exactly. NQ explicitly stated calibration mining was valid - and less efficient long term (so there was a cost to doing so).
 
Not to mention, there are few practical ways to get T2+ ore right now given the extremely low ore rates. 
 
NQ should refund talent points invested for calibration mining.

You understand what's the matter. DU is too straightforward and oppresses some at the expense of others.
If we talk about purchase orders for bots, then why such a loss of rights regarding production workers and pvp fighters? Why buy only ore?
If we are talking about MMOs, then it is logical that people will have specialties. According to your preferences. Why then only miners are encouraged?
I think developers should think about this.

This is not allowed but let us just say that NQ has not the best rep in actually holding up its own rules.
Best part yet is that we cannot disclose here what players or organization is doing this.
 
@NQ-Admin You must know the importance of holding up rules so please react here and just kick those grievers of the game.
 
@OP, please sent me the names on discord of the Rule breaking offenders for the Neutral Alliance Hitlist. TY
 

And back to the point:)
 
Lets not shift this from NQ
 
Industry is indeed a beast and while i even have professional experience with industry, to be honest the beast created is even more challenging as real-world industrial lines.
 
there already is a recepy in every industrial unit but beside that we need a schematic to run a recipy, crazyness 101. its the same as needing a licence to read a cook book to actually cook dinner and not only that, you need a different licence for everything you cook.
 
But if you shove the materials in your mouth and just chew them all together no licence is needed.
 
And Thats schematics.... If they ever make a 101 on what killed DU i would say that schematics is number one starting with the introduction in 0.23 that sent about 60 to 70% of all active players flying. if not even more
 

Why do we we have so many time inconviniences in the game?

1) in-game time in UTC, but roid publish time in local timezone
please, either do them in one timezone, or make publish time relative (ex. "1 day 12 hours ago" or something)


2) Yes, we can calculate that `24 - 10 = 14`, but seriusly, fo you think than `negative 10 UTC` is an ok time to display? Why not just show us 14:00 UTC?

Simply put, allow multiple selection of points. 
As a example.. A shape 35 voxels long and one high, allow all the upper vertex's to be selected and moved. 
 
Doing this one vertex at a time is very time consuming and tedious.
 

We're a small org of 7 people, of which 5 are playing activly. 
Anyway, since release I've been building up the Org-Industry, and oh my.... It IS a full time job, make no mistake on that!
 
Specialy as I'm new to the game, having no clue how to set things up properly, with best connections and so on (you know, production-LINE) - I've had to 'rebuild' the industry multiple times, 3-4 times at least, each time getting headaches of different issues - but every time wit those connection limit of 8, or 10.. idk.. too few for sure! (EDIT: and no, those transfer units dont help (enough))
 
Err.. back to topic.... schematics...
Its insane, I feel like a "disk jockey" (DJ)....  The schematics are "eaten" faster than we're able to 'craft' them, with 2-3 people doing so... (200 schematics per machine overnight (6-8hrs), but used 8-12 hrs 'crafting time') The only way to get some money for the Org (or buy a ship to gather ores) is when we stop producing anything - thus not using any schematics, which we would need to get the industry going. Yes, as an Org, we want/need our own industry. There are not multiple approaches to an industry, there is just one, and its very limited and complex. I'm constantly broke, and have to use the Org money to buy schematics while 2-4 people are farming ores on a daily basis (selling 50% and keeping 50% for production) - which now is "becoming" difficult since the "scittles" no longer respawn, which I think is a VERY HUGHE mistake for the game (by NQ) in the long run. Players that might join in 1-2 years will find NO ores on the surface, anywhere (outside of Haven).. not at this rate/pace. I get it, NQ wants that we use the economy, but those few missions wont be enough to get those new players started. I also understand that NQ wants the schematics as a money and time sink, but heck, production time is already SLOW - and the micro-managment required is a PITA! At the very least, please let us assign a 'schematic-box' (similar to a PB, aka not using a regular input slot) so we could distribute the schematics 'evenly' and would only need to check a handfull of boxes, rather than EVERY SINGLE MACHINE, of which there are dozens hundreds.... I'm thinking of something like, link to active linked container of a player - permamently, until changed. Ok, those are my 2 quantas....

We're a small org of 7 people, of which 5 are playing activly. 
Anyway, since release I've been building up the Org-Industry, and oh my.... It IS a full time job, make no mistake on that!
 
Specialy as I'm new to the game, having no clue how to set things up properly, with best connections and so on (you know, production-LINE) - I've had to 'rebuild' the industry multiple times, 3-4 times at least, each time getting headaches of different issues - but every time wit those connection limit of 8, or 10.. idk.. too few for sure! (EDIT: and no, those transfer units dont help (enough))
 
Err.. back to topic.... schematics...
Its insane, I feel like a "disk jockey" (DJ)....  The schematics are "eaten" faster than we're able to 'craft' them, with 2-3 people doing so... (200 schematics per machine overnight (6-8hrs), but used 8-12 hrs 'crafting time') The only way to get some money for the Org (or buy a ship to gather ores) is when we stop producing anything - thus not using any schematics, which we would need to get the industry going. Yes, as an Org, we want/need our own industry. There are not multiple approaches to an industry, there is just one, and its very limited and complex. I'm constantly broke, and have to use the Org money to buy schematics while 2-4 people are farming ores on a daily basis (selling 50% and keeping 50% for production) - which now is "becoming" difficult since the "scittles" no longer respawn, which I think is a VERY HUGHE mistake for the game (by NQ) in the long run. Players that might join in 1-2 years will find NO ores on the surface, anywhere (outside of Haven).. not at this rate/pace. I get it, NQ wants that we use the economy, but those few missions wont be enough to get those new players started. I also understand that NQ wants the schematics as a money and time sink, but heck, production time is already SLOW - and the micro-managment required is a PITA! At the very least, please let us assign a 'schematic-box' (similar to a PB, aka not using a regular input slot) so we could distribute the schematics 'evenly' and would only need to check a handfull of boxes, rather than EVERY SINGLE MACHINE, of which there are dozens hundreds.... I'm thinking of something like, link to active linked container of a player - permamently, until changed. Ok, those are my 2 quantas....

I get that NQ thought they were doing a good thing by changing how schematics were done, because it got more money out of the system more consistently and time gated industry for anyone without a fortune and a zillion alts, but...well, they do a lot of things that run 180 away from the whole "player driven" etc concept, and reject the most sane solutions and ideas in favor of the dumbest. That's kind of expected at this point (the mass exoduses from the game didn't happen for no reason, and a lot of people are still waiting for serious improvements and NQ to make good on their promises before coming back), so all anyone can hope for is mitigation. So mitigation. Schematics are trash, but it's what we have.
 
Get rid of schematics for pure, product and fuel production, regardless of tier. You DO NOT need all that much complexity in production to melt stuff, which is exactly what pure/product production is, nor do you need much complexity in fuel production, since the machines aren't doing much beyond catalyzing a reaction or distilling a substance. You need more complexity to produce a screw, a pipe, an injector, a power system, or any number of parts, yet there are no schematics for those things. There should be some sanity and consistency to how a system is implemented, even if it's blatantly to slow people down and get money out of the system. For the schematics that remain, balance their costs so that what they ultimately produce isn't so expensive that people will intentionally avoid all PVP just to protect their huge investment. The costs associated with T2+ voxels alone makes them a luxury for bling, rather than viable armor for PVP. The pure ore schematics cost too much for what they produce (especially at higher tiers); the product schematics cost too much for both the inputs and outputs; and the cost to output ratio of voxels is just sickening. If you want T5 armor plating (like pure titanium), you will end up with a cost of ~148,000,000 quanta for 10m^3 of voxels if you do buy the raw ore on the MP (because we're all supposed to specialize so that the economy functions as NQ wants). Most ships require a LOT more than 10m^3 of voxels, even if we're just looking at armor plating and not all the interior work (which will also probably be really expensive). Now put that into perspective: you're not just taking a voxel shell out into combat, but expensive elements. A ship designed for combat, with the best armor plating, will likely use higher-tiered elements, which themselves can run from hundreds to around 1.2 million quanta (space radar L is no joke, and you only need one of those), bringing the total element cost into the hundreds of millions (cost of schematics to make pure + product + element + the cost of the ores themselves). And that doesn't even look at ammo costs from schematics + ore. How often does NQ think that PVP will happen? On what scale do they want it to happen? Any org that invests that kind of time and money into a combat ship, only to lose a fortune every time their voxels get evaporated, would have to be ludicrously rich...which means that the only viable PVP for PVPers is to either a) get that apex ship and only hunt helpless people, or b) make a bunch of weaker ships that only cost a tiny fortune. PVP battles (not counting pirate activity, because that's not battle) will be predictably rare to the point of being an event, if at all. Because you need a fortune to do it, and throwing all of that money (and time) away for a spectacle is just insane. The time required to produce schematics is just bonkers, so reduce their production times drastically. If you don't have a large org or a zillion alts, you'll be stuck with a small factory. If you do have those things, you'll be stuck with constantly feeding schematics into each unit, because there's no system to distribute them via a central hub.  
There have been a ton of good alternatives to the schematic system suggested, even before the schematic system was decided on. NQ, as usual, ignored all of those more reasonable ideas proposed by people who still believed that NQ intended to keep its promises about "player-driven" etc, and instead went with this craptastic system. So these are my balancing suggestions to a system that never should have been implemented in a player-driven game. Especially not since we're talking about digital schematics being essentially uploaded into machines that, for some unknown reason the machine's developers decided would delete its database every time produced something, and then load the next digital schematic to be used and deleted. @NQ, tell us how often you load a function in your coding, and then delete it from your computer after every time it gets called, forcing you to re-write it and re-load it into the computer. Seriously, that's how stupid this system is. You would fire anyone who came up with that method for coding, and you would be right to do it. Using time gating and draining resources as an excuse to implement it, when you would fire someone for exactly those reasons, says that you don't respect the community just as loudly as ignoring the many alternatives that were more reasonable (like requiring regular industry maintenance because of machine degradation from use, or player-created schematics that don't get deleted but require talents to "research," or any number of others).

Well, like I said before over Discord, while I do agree building obstacles right on a quite common flight place and putting down scrap for sale right where players would crash is a very sketchy and a-hole move, that doesn't justify going after someone in real life or threatening. This is a game, after all. Did right by reporting them to Twitch and NQ.
 
Other than that, my only opinion here is that since NQ already positioned themselves and decided that building on player tiles aren't subject to market rules, NQ should at least update the market screens with proper (hopefully clear) writing specifying what are the rules and when/how they apply. Being ambiguous is a terrible idea here.

Sorry to see another talented old Player go.. you did so much for the Player community and created the kind of content this game needs.
I was in doubt if i would return as well, but am giving DU a try again now...
even though they broke their promises.
Thx for all you have done for DU!
Hagbard
 

What people on Discord, this thread and the other thread clearly don't understand is that NQ literally created precedent for other people who have tiles connected to markets to do the same. It isn't about ArchHUD, autopilot or even missions, for that matter, it's just that accordingly to NQ-Rubicon's own words, the market rules are only enforced within Aphelia (market) tiles, nowhere else. So if players decide to build towers obstructing markets or spam screens with advertisements on their connected tiles, they are allowed to do it, based on what was said.

 
The precedent is now set, it's NQ's "official" statement about the subject, and honestly, I'm tired of that subject already. I already got my punishment by NQ for talking on the subject and don't want to get into that rabbit hole again, just to get punished again. So much hassle.
 
Anyways, let's see how long this holds up and this interpretation of the rule stays valid.

I always assumed that the 2km limit was referring to parking AGG ships.  But the wording is pretty vague.
 
I think however NQ wants to handle this kind of thing; it needs to be built into the game.  Tiles shouldn't be claimable if you aren't supposed to build on them.
 
And it can't be on NQ to make individual calls as to what is considered a legitimate building verses someone intentionally blocking a flight path.
 
It's true that the markets in the purple zone on Alioth will always have a clear flight path on one side.  But there are a lot of other markets that could eventually have an entire city built around them.  And it would probably be a good idea to decide how to handle this now, rather than later.

Because then a) the live server gets filled up with rubbish from players that stay for 2 weeks and then never log on again, and b) because everyone will have infinite alts to abuse endlessly, which would completely unbalance the game.
 
There is nothing stopping you from joining the free server if you want to help potential new players out.
 
The current setup is pretty much the best option NQ could have come up with, and we should probably give them due credit for this.

Although I'm commonly very understanding of NQ decisions and often try to look at the big picture, I am just not able to grasp this.  Not from any high level position, not even from space.   Schematics, I understood the need to slow the game progression down.  DU is designed/meant to be a long term game with long term goals. Fair.  I understood the need to reduce cores amongst the community, my org was only at about 1000 total (3 of us) and we managed to bring that down to 300 and felt that was fair. (though we wished for a "remove all to container function".  I understand the need for the screen/art changes. I understand the need for the voxel rebalance.  I understand the need for pretty much everything NQ has done from a "Big Picture" perspective. (even if I don't like them all  )

That said, you are pushing your subscription cost to play outside of many people's ability to pay it.   Yes some people are rich and can afford the hike, but many of the most "cherished" DU players are literally on Twitch begging for money to support themselves and their families.  There are many non streamers in DU that are part of this.  We have several players who have become homeless throughout Covid and managed to scrape together enough to play DU from time to time to make their lives a little better.  Because at the end of the day, DU wasn't mainstream, but its community could very easily turn a bad day IRL in to a fun happy day. (all the little happy builds)

I understand the need for money to keep your business going, and I understand the new cost projections you have for launching to a vast "spike" in players initially, with a gradual reduction over time due to normal projected forecasts of inactivity. (all games, literally every single one)  That said, I urge you to highly reconsider this new price point.

We the DU community, those who took the time to post here, are telling you this a "bad" plan for launch.  Many are sharing their own reasons but no matter the reason, we are telling you that this price is too high. Going to steam with a sub cost above $15 has never been accepted by the reviewers. We are also telling you to introduce "micro" transactions in the forms of skins that will supplement this increased cost.  Its much easier for people to "consider" purchasing 2x $10 skins in a month than it is to justify paying a "flat" $5.00 more for nothing extra.

Please if you DU anything NQ....If you were to listen to anything... you are pricing yourself out of a larger audience by being the ONLY MMO game to have a sub higher than WoW ($16.97)  in Canada.  This isn't any sort of "smart" logic.  DU this and watch the red reviews start on Sept 27th.... 

My orgmate's sub is till 2025, we plan to long term this and hope it survives more than anything.  Lower price = Larger audience. Larger audience + (skins) = longer term players (invested)