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Wreckage and Towing


Velenka
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So I have been wondering about wreckage. It seems clear that battles are going to take place, so it's very probable that wreckage will be left behind. Wreckage that perhaps the previous owner will come to reclaim, but perhaps not.
How will salvaging wreckage work? It should be balanced enough that either the salvage shop or the previous owner will have a fair chance to claim it.

So here is my suggestion. Whoever wishes to salvage the wreckage will have to "claim" it. The wreckage will remain in a "claiming" state for X amount of time. After that, all rights within the wreckage will transfer to the claiming player. Should another player interrupt the claim with a competing claim, the countdown will restart with a new claim in the name of the interrupting player. The amount of time X would depend on the amount of voxels in the construct: bigger constructs take longer to claim.

This shouldn't be limited to wreckage. An abandoned, but functional construct should be a valid target for a claiming system. It's a naval tradition. You found it first, crew's gone or dead, so it's yours.

This would allow for interesting interactions. Either the two opposing players could sit next to the wreckage, claiming it back and forth until one player loses patience and abandons the wreck. One player could initiate combat to either scare away or kill the other player.

But what about abusing this claiming system on an occupied or fully functional construct? The owners/right-holders could put an anti-claim on the construct for Y time that prevents claims from finishing, starting, or continuing.

"But what about griefers abusing this system too?" Well first, it should only work outside the Arkship safety area. Second, claiming should have to be done in very close proximity to the construct. Third, the entire construct should glow or do something to let anyone in the surroundings know that it's being claimed. Fourth, if you don't want to be bothered, weapons are ideal. Constructs that aren't protected are easy targets.

While on the topic of wreckage, wrecks tend to be adrift. So what about some sort of tractor beam device and/or a magnetic harpoon which would allow wreckage to be towed out of dangerous areas. Other things could be towed too, like mostly intact ships with missing thrusters, or a modular piece of construction for a space station. A towing mechanism would go hand in hand with the role of a salvage yard.

There's also the issue of servers and load. A huge wreck after a big battle might leave wrecks and pieces floating everywhere, so after a certain time, the server should delete them. It should be a fairly long timer to allow players to recover/salvage what's left.

But this presents the problem of what is a wreckage and what isn't? It might be easy to say as a human, but not so much for a server. An abandoned or unpowered ship might simply be awaiting repairs in the shipyard. Or a strangely shaped construct might be doing what it was intended to do. Or a base might just be so simple that it has no elements to speak of. A completely functional ship could be treated as garbage if the owner decided to quit playing the game and leave it floating in space.

So what do you guys think?

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So I have been wondering about wreckage. It seems clear that battles are going to take place, so it's very probable that wreckage will be left behind. Wreckage that perhaps the previous owner will come to reclaim, but perhaps not.

How will salvaging wreckage work? It should be balanced enough that either the salvage shop or the previous owner will have a fair chance to claim it.

 

So here is my suggestion. Whoever wishes to salvage the wreckage will have to "claim" it. The wreckage will remain in a "claiming" state for X amount of time. After that, all rights within the wreckage will transfer to the claiming player. Should another player interrupt the claim with a competing claim, the countdown will restart with a new claim in the name of the interrupting player. The amount of time X would depend on the amount of voxels in the construct: bigger constructs take longer to claim.

 

This shouldn't be limited to wreckage. An abandoned, but functional construct should be a valid target for a claiming system. It's a naval tradition. You found it first, crew's gone or dead, so it's yours.

 

This would allow for interesting interactions. Either the two opposing players could sit next to the wreckage, claiming it back and forth until one player loses patience and abandons the wreck. One player could initiate combat to either scare away or kill the other player.

 

But what about abusing this claiming system on an occupied or fully functional construct? The owners/right-holders could put an anti-claim on the construct for Y time that prevents claims from finishing, starting, or continuing.

 

"But what about griefers abusing this system too?" Well first, it should only work outside the Arkship safety area. Second, claiming should have to be done in very close proximity to the construct. Third, the entire construct should glow or do something to let anyone in the surroundings know that it's being claimed. Fourth, if you don't want to be bothered, weapons are ideal. Constructs that aren't protected are easy targets.

 

While on the topic of wreckage, wrecks tend to be adrift. So what about some sort of tractor beam device and/or a magnetic harpoon which would allow wreckage to be towed out of dangerous areas. Other things could be towed too, like mostly intact ships with missing thrusters, or a modular piece of construction for a space station. A towing mechanism would go hand in hand with the role of a salvage yard.

 

There's also the issue of servers and load. A huge wreck after a big battle might leave wrecks and pieces floating everywhere, so after a certain time, the server should delete them. It should be a fairly long timer to allow players to recover/salvage what's left.

 

But this presents the problem of what is a wreckage and what isn't? It might be easy to say as a human, but not so much for a server. An abandoned or unpowered ship might simply be awaiting repairs in the shipyard. Or a strangely shaped construct might be doing what it was intended to do. Or a base might just be so simple that it has no elements to speak of. A completely functional ship could be treated as garbage if the owner decided to quit playing the game and leave it floating in space.

 

So what do you guys think?

I guess the more appropriate way would be to have a repair ship being called to you position if you defend against a gank and your thrusters are blown to bits. That same ship could act as a towing truck, but it would have to be ENORMOUS with enough thrust to tow your ship as well. So, maybe, just repairing. It's way more efficient imo.

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I prefer the idea of having to fight over a wreck if you want to salvage it, or (my preferred gameplay style) sneaking in when nobody is around, just like in Eve. 

 

There's always going to be the bottom feeders rushing in after a battle to try and pick apart ships after major battles :P

 

It gives an angle for pirate gameplay, and it could allow for people who want to specialize in salvaging and not combat to still get in on the action. 

 

 

On the topic of towing, I'd like to see an SOS system, where you could broadcast a distress signal if your ship is disabled and any ships in the vicinity would see the signal and could choose to assist (without necessarily knowing who is broadcasting the signal). 

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I prefer the idea of having to fight over a wreck if you want to salvage it, or (my preferred gameplay style) sneaking in when nobody is around, just like in Eve. 

 

There's always going to be the bottom feeders rushing in after a battle to try and pick apart ships after major battles :P

 

It gives an angle for pirate gameplay, and it could allow for people who want to specialize in salvaging and not combat to still get in on the action. 

 

 

On the topic of towing, I'd like to see an SOS system, where you could broadcast a distress signal if your ship is disabled and any ships in the vicinity would see the signal and could choose to assist (without necessarily knowing who is broadcasting the signal). 

Yamamushi, you could become anything and you became Rey :P

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I prefer the idea of having to fight over a wreck if you want to salvage it, or (my preferred gameplay style) sneaking in when nobody is around, just like in Eve. 

 

There's always going to be the bottom feeders rushing in after a battle to try and pick apart ships after major battles :P

 

It gives an angle for pirate gameplay, and it could allow for people who want to specialize in salvaging and not combat to still get in on the action. 

 

 

On the topic of towing, I'd like to see an SOS system, where you could broadcast a distress signal if your ship is disabled and any ships in the vicinity would see the signal and could choose to assist (without necessarily knowing who is broadcasting the signal). 

 

I'm just imagining a tug boat sneaking off with the wreck as two salvage ships fight over it and are completely distracted by each other.

 

The SOS system sounds interesting. Possibly with the ability to broadcast on different frequencies so that only friendlies can pick it up or something like that

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I'm just imagining a tug boat sneaking off with the wreck as two salvage ships fight over it and are completely distracted by each other.

 

The SOS system sounds interesting. Possibly with the ability to broadcast on different frequencies so that only friendlies can pick it up or something like that

Those frequencies I suppose will be the /guildchat ? O.o

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I'm just imagining a tug boat sneaking off with the wreck as two salvage ships fight over it and are completely distracted by each other.

 

The SOS system sounds interesting. Possibly with the ability to broadcast on different frequencies so that only friendlies can pick it up or something like that

 

No, the channel should be open. It makes sending out an SOS an actual tactical decision. You could get help, or you could get pirates looking for an easy kill. If you want allies to help you, go back to the group chat. There ought to be a few JSDF members online :P

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it would be nice if you could gain somethign other than just raw materials from salvaging an enemy wreck,  for example say you salvage a wreck, perhaps you get a partial blueprint, you salvage another few ships of that design, now you've managed to get a functional blueprint to produce this ship yourself. 

 

also some form of tug of war mechanic would be cool like you can have to ships pulling same wreck, perhaps the wreck gets torn in two, perhaps its a sturdy wreck and one of the ships has its towing device torn off by the other if adequate force is available to cause the damage

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So here is my suggestion. Whoever wishes to salvage the wreckage will have to "claim" it. The wreckage will remain in a "claiming" state for X amount of time. After that, all rights within the wreckage will transfer to the claiming player. Should another player interrupt the claim with a competing claim, the countdown will restart with a new claim in the name of the interrupting player. The amount of time X would depend on the amount of voxels in the construct: bigger constructs take longer to claim.

 

This shouldn't be limited to wreckage. An abandoned, but functional construct should be a valid target for a claiming system. It's a naval tradition. You found it first, crew's gone or dead, so it's yours.

 

This would allow for interesting interactions. Either the two opposing players could sit next to the wreckage, claiming it back and forth until one player loses patience and abandons the wreck. One player could initiate combat to either scare away or kill the other player.

 

I don't see the need for such an artificial claiming system.  Salvage should just be fair game.  If you don't want me to take it, stop me, however you can, if you can.  That allows for far more interesting and numerous interactions than two players standing next to each other spamming a "claim item" button.

 

While on the topic of wreckage, wrecks tend to be adrift. So what about some sort of tractor beam device and/or a magnetic harpoon which would allow wreckage to be towed out of dangerous areas. Other things could be towed too, like mostly intact ships with missing thrusters, or a modular piece of construction for a space station. A towing mechanism would go hand in hand with the role of a salvage yard.

 

The ability to tow is a good idea.  Whether on a planet or in space players should be able to design and build constructs designed to carry or tow salvage.

 

 

There's also the issue of servers and load. A huge wreck after a big battle might leave wrecks and pieces floating everywhere, so after a certain time, the server should delete them. It should be a fairly long timer to allow players to recover/salvage what's left.

 

But this presents the problem of what is a wreckage and what isn't? It might be easy to say as a human, but not so much for a server. An abandoned or unpowered ship might simply be awaiting repairs in the shipyard. Or a strangely shaped construct might be doing what it was intended to do. Or a base might just be so simple that it has no elements to speak of. A completely functional ship could be treated as garbage if the owner decided to quit playing the game and leave it floating in space.

 

Yes, that is definitely a can of worms waiting to be opened.  I guess anything that has some element still functioning shouldn't be removed, but constructs designed without any functioning element would have to remain regardless.  They could also throw in a manual "abandon construct" button, which flags that it is a valid target for removal from the server.  

 

Ideally, only wreckage would be removed from the server and abandoned constructs would remain.  Not sure if that's realistic.

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it would be nice if you could gain somethign other than just raw materials from salvaging an enemy wreck,  for example say you salvage a wreck, perhaps you get a partial blueprint, you salvage another few ships of that design, now you've managed to get a functional blueprint to produce this ship yourself. 

 

also some form of tug of war mechanic would be cool like you can have to ships pulling same wreck, perhaps the wreck gets torn in two, perhaps its a sturdy wreck and one of the ships has its towing device torn off by the other if adequate force is available to cause the damage

This stunt looks way too elaborate to work, oh Ancient One.

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I don't see the need for such an artificial claiming system.  Salvage should just be fair game.  If you don't want me to take it, stop me, however you can, if you can.  That allows for far more interesting and numerous interactions than two players standing next to each other spamming a "claim item" button.

 

I suggest this system to prevent griefers from taking their nanoformers and just deconstructing your stuff. You and only you have rights to build (and deconstruct) your stuff. If there is no way to take stuff apart (not destroy) without build rights, then salvaging would be impossible. A claim system would be able to grant those rights to someone who is actually going to use that construct.

 

Also I did give an example of "stop me if you can"...

 

Either the two opposing players could sit next to the wreckage, claiming it back and forth until one player loses patience and abandons the wreck. One player could initiate combat to either scare away or kill the other player.

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I suggest this system to prevent griefers from taking their nanoformers and just deconstructing your stuff. You and only you have rights to build (and deconstruct) your stuff. If there is no way to take stuff apart (not destroy) without build rights, then salvaging would be impossible. A claim system would be able to grant those rights to someone who is actually going to use that construct.

 

Also I did give an example of "stop me if you can"...

"your stuff" would be already destroyed, that's a loss, that's how pvp works, so you shouldn't be able to avoid it being griefed, even because if it is a ship, you already have the blueprint to restore it, if it is your base, then that territory is no longer yours, and they have all the rights to clean your stuff and place theirs.

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I would say there is a big difference between pvp combat and deconstructing someone's ship out from under them with no time to react. All combat would boil down to who has the fastest nanoformer. The griefers would have so much fun destroying a mega city in mere minutes. Obviously there must be build/deconstruct permissions to stop such rampaging. And if those permissions exist, then that precludes the idea of salvaging someone else's constructs, since you don't have those rights. So in order to make a salvaging mechanic possible I put forward the suggestion of a claim system.

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I suggest this system to prevent griefers from taking their nanoformers and just deconstructing your stuff. You and only you have rights to build (and deconstruct) your stuff. If there is no way to take stuff apart (not destroy) without build rights, then salvaging would be impossible. A claim system would be able to grant those rights to someone who is actually going to use that construct.

 

Also I did give an example of "stop me if you can"...

So your idea is designed around an assumption that deconstruction of constructs that are in use will be a problem? If so then you're speculating a bridge too far. We have no idea if that will be a problem, and it would be far better to design the system such that it is theoretically possible, but not a problem than to artificially prevent it with patch up mechanics.

 

That was not an example of "stop me if you can", it was an example of spamming a claim button. Here are some examples of "stop me if you can".

 

- threaten me with your faster, stronger vehicle or affiliations

- shoot at me

- ram me

- destroy the salvage

- negotiate a deal

- get to it first

- have a friend who gets to it first

- be otherwise inventive

- ???

 

These things do not require a claim button.

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I would say there is a big difference between pvp combat and deconstructing someone's ship out from under them with no time to react. All combat would boil down to who has the fastest nanoformer. The griefers would have so much fun destroying a mega city in mere minutes. Obviously there must be build/deconstruct permissions to stop such rampaging. And if those permissions exist, then that precludes the idea of salvaging someone else's constructs, since you don't have those rights. So in order to make a salvaging mechanic possible I put forward the suggestion of a claim system.

 

Well, i thought that was pretty obvious, there'll be a clam system, there's even a devblog about it.

 

Regarding a city, you shouldn't be able to deconstruct it without having remove the claim (so after a war)

Regarding a ship, you should be able to deconstruct it, but if you're not the owner it should take more time. If it is not defended you could destroy it anyway with weapons, so i don't see a problem here. Ships when landing on a unsafe planet should be hided, guarded or have some kind of defensive system

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Well, i thought that was pretty obvious, there'll be a clam system, there's even a devblog about it.

 

Regarding a city, you shouldn't be able to deconstruct it without having remove the claim (so after a war)

Regarding a ship, you should be able to deconstruct it, but if you're not the owner it should take more time. If it is not defended you could destroy it anyway with weapons, so i don't see a problem here. Ships when landing on a unsafe planet should be hided, guarded or have some kind of defensive system

 

The problem is that there aren't cities or ships or bases. There are only constructs. One mechanic must apply to everything. What you said about taking more time if you're not the owner might work, but it would have to take a lot longer to be fair. Though it might be too much time for anyone's patience.

 

Perhaps there could be some kind of a salvaging station which wouldn't be as slow. Without the rights to pilot a ship, nobody would leave it there. But if you tow it in, you wouldn't have to spend days with your nanoformer, but rather a few minutes or hours in the salvage station. For unmovable objects, a salvager might choose to cut parts off to ship to the salvage station.

 

But as for claiming, there still ought to be a way to make a certain construct yours. Stealing a functional ship ought to be possible under the right circumstances.

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The problem is that there aren't cities or ships or bases. There are only constructs. One mechanic must apply to everything. What you said about taking more time if you're not the owner might work, but it would have to take a lot longer to be fair. Though it might be too much time for anyone's patience.

 

Not really. Technically, you don't "own" anything. You are simply piloting the thing. Same though doesn't apply on the ground if you are in a claimed one. Then for your stuff to be taken, they would have to be pried from you, items I mean, you can't pry a house away from someone (unless you are greedy banker).

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I love this idea. Salvaging wrecks was what I spent a bit of time doing for my Corp in EVE, and I love chasing down and dismantling ships in Space Engineers.

 

I like that your idea is rooted in reality and that you are taking into account the player aspect of fighting over wreckage and disputes.

 

Very well thought out and I can offer no improvements to your idea, just a supportive post.

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