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Eleete

[Serious] Planetary PvP - General discussion

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Hello,

Do you want to talk about Base Raiding ? :) Any idea how it will be when planetary pvp will hit the live server? The only mechanic i know is > you lose everything if they kill they Core, repair and claim (like the ship mechanic), right ?

Will you lose your base over night when you sleep ?
Will we have some auto turrets that you can place ONLY on STATIC cores with longer range than any weapon you can place on Dynamic Core?

Considering how hard/easy is for some to start all over when you lose everything my only concern is if it is too aggressive and if you can lose everything easily, not many will survive. I have over 5000h in different survivals, so i know a thing of two about surviving in harsh worlds :)

What do we know so far ?

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3 minutes ago, MrSteve said:

I know that if you log off in space, outside of the safe zone, your ship can be destroyed by some wandering nice guy.

Yup. That will always be a thing. They have to find you 1st :)

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That, the log off thing, will be a big problem if there is a downtime that is longer and perhaps unexpected. If I am disconnected then I might have to go to work or so, and cannot be there when the server is up again.

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52 minutes ago, Eleete said:

Hello,

Do you want to talk about Base Raiding ? :) Any idea how it will be when planetary pvp will hit the live server? The only mechanic i know is > you lose everything if they kill they Core, repair and claim (like the ship mechanic), right ?

Will you lose your base over night when you sleep ?
Will we have some auto turrets that you can place ONLY on STATIC cores with longer range than any weapon you can place on Dynamic Core?

Considering how hard/easy is for some to start all over when you lose everything my only concern is if it is too aggressive and if you can lose everything easily, not many will survive. I have over 5000h in different survivals, so i know a thing of two about surviving in harsh worlds :)

What do we know so far ?

Let’s discuss this in around 12 months as this is not even been work on according the the road map, they have bigger fish to fry right now.

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While Iorail is right that Territory Warfare is a long way off, I think this post raises fears that need addressing because they are groundless.

58 minutes ago, Eleete said:

Will you lose your base over night when you sleep ?

No. The concept that people need to sleep and have lives out of the game is well-known and understood. There will, I have no doubt whatsoever, be a mechanic that means you will have time to gather your defenses/defenders before the attackers can cause your statics (at least) any damage. The most often-conceptualised approach to this is that your Territory Unit will have a shield of some description which will cost time and possibly also resources to knock down.

58 minutes ago, Eleete said:

Will we have some auto turrets that you can place ONLY on STATIC cores with longer range than any weapon you can place on Dynamic Core?

Maybe there will be turrets. My first original design project will be how to build them out of existing parts. Maybe there will be special static defense weapons, but I would think that's less likely. There might be weapons which are impractical to put on mobile units, or flying ones, or interstellar ones. It'd be good if there were guns that were most efficicently deployed on hover vehicles, so the tank designers can have a go. But nobody knows what will actually be included. 

58 minutes ago, Eleete said:

What do we know so far ?

That's about it. There will be Territory Warfare. There will almost certainly be some sort of timer to give you a chance to get a defense together and deter random vandalism.

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12 minutes ago, Ligator said:

That, the log off thing, will be a big problem if there is a downtime that is longer and perhaps unexpected. If I am disconnected then I might have to go to work or so, and cannot be there when the server is up again.

This really isn't going to be an issue. If you're still disconnected by the time the defense timer (or whatever) drops the shield, you're boned unless you have organised friends to help you via out-of-game comms. And if you don't have any friends who could do this for you, you're going to be boned anyway because the people who've dropped your shield will just roll over a single player anyway. They wouldn't have dropped your shield if they didn't think they could take you.

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What will make or break this game is the high level game design surrounding PvP and territory control. This will have deep roots in the code and so it should be discussed now.

 

Having all or nothing battles requiring timers breaks immersion and unbalances the game by giving too much emphasis to raw military force relative to economic and diplomatic power (soft power). A PvP specialized guild should be on equal terms with an equally large guild specializing in soft power. The soft power guild needs to be able to rebuild its defenses as quickly as they are destroyed and be able to get resupplied using its own traders and those of its friends.

 

Distributed defenses are networked and multilayered defenses where a central fort has many outlying guard posts which need to be destroyed before the main fort or settlement can be reached. Such defenses involve not only outposts but the links which connect the outposts together for reinforcement and resupply. This would have to be for both space and planet based assets. Taking down the outposts of a decent size guild should require several days if not being actively rebuilt. Think of the modern Iraq wars for real life examples. Iraq had such a multilayered defense network which took some time to take down before the final assault.

 

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15 minutes ago, DeHurst said:

What will make or break this game is the high level game design surrounding PvP and territory control. This will have deep roots in the code and so it should be discussed now.

I'm sure and certain NQ have already made the decisions that will affect the form of Territory Warfare at the fundamental code level because it gets harder and harder to make any changes to the core code the later you leave it. All the speculation and suggestion you can type regarding the fundamental basis of TW are too late.

 

That said, you raise some points which might be worth noodling about. The fact that even the "shield/timer" mechanic is speculation makes it difficult though. So I'm going to assume the fundamentals support a "Territory Shield" approach, let's look at how that basic system can accommodate the thrust of your points.

15 minutes ago, DeHurst said:

Having all or nothing battles requiring timers breaks immersion and unbalances the game by giving too much emphasis to raw military force relative to economic and diplomatic power (soft power). A PvP specialized guild should be on equal terms with an equally large guild specializing in soft power. The soft power guild needs to be able to rebuild its defenses as quickly as they are destroyed and be able to get resupplied using its own traders and those of its friends.

Every decisive battle reaches a point where it needs to be "pushed to conclusion". While it's fondly held by some that violence never solved anything, it's unfortunately the case that this is not true. It should be possible using political and economic power to deny the attacker the chance to push for conclusions using military power, however, or give the militarily weaker (individually) defender an advantage to counter the military advantage of the attacking force.

15 minutes ago, DeHurst said:

 

Distributed defenses are networked and multilayered defenses where a central fort has many outlying guard posts which need to be destroyed before the main fort or settlement can be reached. Such defenses involve not only outposts but the links which connect the outposts together for reinforcement and resupply. This would have to be for both space and planet based assets. Taking down the outposts of a decent size guild should require several days if not being actively rebuilt. Think of the modern Iraq wars for real life examples. Iraq had such a multilayered defense network which took some time to take down before the final assault.

 

There isn't going to be any detail like that on a single hex. The scale is too small anyway. It will be abstracted into the shield mechanics.

 

Maybe a shield needs to have an unclaimed hex, or one friendly to the attacker, next to it, so that assault can only come from the edge of held "friendly" territory. There would have to be a way, even more involved/expensive/time consuming of making a hostile landing from orbit without breaching surface defenses. The third dimension is, after all, a thing.

 

Maybe the "shield attack thing" needs feeding with "stuff" to keep the "shield timer" ticking down, and maybe the defender can feed their shield generator "other/the same stuff" to keep the shield up.

 

Maybe the "shield attack thing" needs maintaining by a construct which has to be present continuously to continue its work. That would mean that the attackers would need to defend the "shieldbreaker" construct from either the defender, or their allies, or their paid help.

 

Maybe it would be impossibe to completely prevent the shield collapsing, but the "net result" of the shield mechanic might bestow an advantage on the party who "did the best at it". To extend the "feeding the shield/shieldbreaker" concept into this, perhaps if the defenders put more ming into the shield than the attackers put into the breaker, the defender's constructs get some sort of shield or weapon boost or the like for the eventual combat.

 

None of that needs changes to the core code that says "can attack constructs True/False". It's all surface dressing.

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8 hours ago, MrSteve said:

I know that if you log off in space, outside of the safe zone, your ship can be destroyed by some wandering nice guy.

If you could salvage afterwards, I would be that guy.

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