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bastanold

Ships and the crew required

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Actually i like pets so i usually fly a droneboat like the Myrmi or Tristan and i have a lot of fun with the little Tristan but i can control more than 1 weapon or system mods + drones

And i know an individual or small group can't do as much as a large org. I never expected to be able to build a Titan and take on a mega corp in EVE with my small corp but i probably would've gotten bored flying frigs the whole time.

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There are alot of complaints and concerns over the "one crewman, one weapon" system, and not just from solo players. I'm not a solo player, although i do like some "me" time now and then, but i feel it's a valid play style and thought I'd offer up some suggestions to make the game more enjoyable for more players. I don't understand why other players using npc crew detracts from what you do with your live crew. Most of the time you wouldn't even know if the other ship had npc or live crew. Some posts say that it would be harder to get crew. As i said before you're likely to have higher skills in certain areas than other players (and vice versa) so you shouldnt have trouble finding a berth on another ship, but if your worried about finding enough crew for YOUR ship because you know most people want to be in the drivers seat rather than staring at their targeting reticle for X amount of time (hours?) until an enemy finally shows up on their screen for a second or two, then we really have the same concern and you should be on my side ;)

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There are alot of complaints and concerns over the "one crewman, one weapon" system, and not just from solo players. I'm not a solo player, although i do like some "me" time now and then, but i feel it's a valid play style and thought I'd offer up some suggestions to make the game more enjoyable for more players. I don't understand why other players using npc crew detracts from what you do with your live crew. Most of the time you wouldn't even know if the other ship had npc or live crew. Some posts say that it would be harder to get crew. As i said before you're likely to have higher skills in certain areas than other players (and vice versa) so you shouldnt have trouble finding a berth on another ship, but if your worried about finding enough crew for YOUR ship because you know most people want to be in the drivers seat rather than staring at their targeting reticle for X amount of time (hours?) until an enemy finally shows up on their screen for a second or two, then we really have the same concern and you should be on my side ;)

 

you clearly never played tackle, logi , or any support role in EVE.

 

Deal with it, the devs don't want EVE's shitty solo ships. You are meant to specialise your toons. Starfighters are meant for solo players, anything bigger than a small ship like a frigate is group pvp.

 

 

So no, you won't fly a solo Myrmidon. That's a capital ship. Fly a catalyst with a few friends. In fact, in EVE's lore, a ship has actual crew. In DU that crew are real people. No you won't build battleships by farming. There's no automated industry either. Or mining. Capital ships come with high logistics. Fly what you can afford to crew - or manufacture.

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There are alot of complaints and concerns over the "one crewman, one weapon" system, and not just from solo players. I'm not a solo player, although i do like some "me" time now and then, but i feel it's a valid play style and thought I'd offer up some suggestions to make the game more enjoyable for more players. I don't understand why other players using npc crew detracts from what you do with your live crew. Most of the time you wouldn't even know if the other ship had npc or live crew. Some posts say that it would be harder to get crew. As i said before you're likely to have higher skills in certain areas than other players (and vice versa) so you shouldnt have trouble finding a berth on another ship, but if your worried about finding enough crew for YOUR ship because you know most people want to be in the drivers seat rather than staring at their targeting reticle for X amount of time (hours?) until an enemy finally shows up on their screen for a second or two, then we really have the same concern and you should be on my side ;)

 

Think about the vast implications of such a system you proposed. Then perhaps you see the problem with it. Hint: Players can build stargates for faster travel between planets. Players can build protection bubbles (48h timer reinforce).

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you clearly never played tackle, logi , or any support role in EVE.

yes i have played those roles in their role specific ships and in support drone boats. I like to be able to fill any role in a pinch, but my preferences for mmos in general are as follows:

1 Ranged Dps - especially with force multipliers like pets, drones, golems, etc

2 Healer

3 Melee Dps

4 Tank

5 Other Support (Bard/Shaman)

6 Rogue

I'm curious about what prompted that comment though.

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Deal with it, the devs don't want EVE's shitty solo ships. You are meant to specialise your toons. Starfighters are meant for solo players, anything bigger than a small ship like a frigate is group pvp.

Are they shitty because they're only crewed by one player or do you just not like the designs, mechanics, aesthetics?

No one is "meant" to do anything in DU. Sandbox, remember? A player can cross train all they like. Will other players outpace the Jacks of all trades in role specific skills? Almost certainly, but we're ok with that. Why aren't you?

Even a frig in DU would require a small crew. If properly outfitted of course.

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.

So no, you won't fly a solo Myrmidon. That's a capital ship. Fly a catalyst with a few friends. In fact, in EVE's lore, a ship has actual crew. In DU that crew are real people. No you won't build battleships by farming. There's no automated industry either. Or mining. Capital ships come with high logistics. Fly what you can afford to crew - or manufacture.

Not even sure where any of this came from. I never said anything about wanting to fly a Myrmi solo in DU, or building, farming, mining, automated industry, agriculture,  waste management, the kitchen sink or any other off topic item you care to name.

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I could be wrong on this one, but i thought stargates were for travel between star systems and ftl was for travel between planets. Either way I don't really see the connection re: pc vs npc/mixed crew, Lethys. Explain please?

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Ah! Unless you're referring to the offline friend as npc suggestion. In which case i can understand some trepidation about logging out in one place and logging back in to find yourself halfway across the galaxy.

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I could be wrong on this one, but i thought stargates were for travel between star systems and ftl was for travel between planets. Either way I don't really see the connection re: pc vs npc/mixed crew, Lethys. Explain please?

You can write your answers in one post, no need to split them (multiquote - desktop version, hard to do on phone though)

 

Well you need to defend that gate.

And you need to defend that base with the shield.

What could possibly go wrong when a 30 man org with a perfectly hidden homebase very far off (no need for stargates to get to other planets outside the alioth system) comes in and can wreck havoc to even smaller orgs. They could just kill every bubble they see with minimal effort, every gate too. Now imagine what'll happen when a 1000 man org does this.

With crews you make sure that no one can just go on a rampage because they feel like it. They need to do their logistics, tactics and organizational things first. THEN they can go kill. Which is way harder than just 20 people soloing a cruiser (I'm not even talking about bigger ships here....)

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Are they shitty because they're only crewed by one player or do you just not like the designs, mechanics, aesthetics?

No one is "meant" to do anything in DU. Sandbox, remember? A player can cross train all they like. Will other players outpace the Jacks of all trades in role specific skills? Almost certainly, but we're ok with that. Why aren't you?

Even a frig in DU would require a small crew. If properly outfitted of course.

The mechanics are fine, their implementetion is terrible in EVE.

 

yes i have played those roles in their role specific ships and in support drone boats. I like to be able to fill any role in a pinch, but my preferences for mmos in general are as follows:

1 Ranged Dps - especially with force multipliers like pets, drones, golems, etc

2 Healer

3 Melee Dps

4 Tank

5 Other Support (Bard/Shaman)

6 Rogue

I'm curious about what prompted that comment though.

Yeah,  you know, you can't be everything at once, not from day one. In DU you can be a entry level anything, but yo uhave to specialsie like you would in EVE. You don't start with matery on missiles and drones and lasers and railgusn and projectile weaponry. You TRAIN for those - DU has the same training system as EVE.

 

Your arguements make no sense, you just said you like all those roles, but your choice of words and arguements indicates you are the "quarterback jock" kind of player mentality, case in point "DPS is for men, Healers are for [insert homophobic slurr here] ".

 

And nobody can see anything other than that if you claim "everyone wants to be the pilot". Do not put anyone in the same category as you. That's a blanket statement and more importantly, paints you as an egocentric person - you know, the kind o f person that won't ever play support class in a game ,cause "I don't want to play as a healbot".

 

You can specialsie as a gunner, and you can find a good group PvP org that has a spot for your skill as a palyer to join a battleship crew. That won't change than any other MMO out there, with larger guilds seeking a good Support class.

 

Do you know what's a dime a dozen in WoW?? DPS classes. They still struggle to find a good guild. In DU, those are people who will play "Pilot or Nothing". Oh, you wanna be a pilot only? Here, be a cannon fodder flying out of a carrier with your starfighter, and only if you are a good boy and not a person that wastes an organisation's resources by going hurr durr and not following orders.

 

Now, reall, chill, cause the game is Avatar first, Ship second. You play as your avatar a role inside a ship. NQ has made it abudantly clear they don't cater to solo players when it comes to large scale content like battleships.

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The mechanics are fine, their implementetion is terrible in EVE.

 

 

 

Yeah,  you know, you can't be everything at once, not from day one. In DU you can be a entry level anything, but yo uhave to specialsie like you would in EVE. You don't start with matery on missiles and drones and lasers and railgusn and projectile weaponry. You TRAIN for those - DU has the same training system as EVE.

I realize that. Hence the "outpacing" question.

 

Your arguements make no sense, you just said you like all those roles, but your choice of words and arguements indicates you are the "quarterback jock" kind of player mentality, case in point "DPS is for men, Healers are for [insert homophobic slurr here] ".

I did not say i like all those roles, i simply listed them in order of preference. I actually hate 4-6 but I'll play them if i have to because no one else in my group wants to.

 

And nobody can see anything other than that if you claim "everyone wants to be the pilot". Do not put anyone in the same category as you. That's a blanket statement and more importantly, paints you as an egocentric person - you know, the kind o f person that won't ever play support class in a game ,cause "I don't want to play as a healbot".

I said most people, not everyone. But I'll amend even that and say "alot of people"

Healer is #2 on my list because i like that role. It's almost always a very active/challenging role.

 

Do you know what's a dime a dozen in WoW?? DPS classes. They still struggle to find a good guild. In DU, those are people who will play "Pilot or Nothing". Oh, you wanna be a pilot only? Here, be a cannon fodder flying out of a carrier with your starfighter, and only if you are a good boy and not a person that wastes an organisation's resources by going hurr durr and not following orders.

I know, right? But that's one of the reasons i like to be a well rounded player, or in games like WoW i have alts for each class.

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You can write your answers in one post, no need to split them (multiquote - desktop version, hard to do on phone though)

Well you need to defend that gate.

And you need to defend that base with the shield.

What could possibly go wrong when a 30 man org with a perfectly hidden homebase very far off (no need for stargates to get to other planets outside the alioth system) comes in and can wreck havoc to even smaller orgs. They could just kill every bubble they see with minimal effort, every gate too. Now imagine what'll happen when a 1000 man org does this.

With crews you make sure that no one can just go on a rampage because they feel like it. They need to do their logistics, tactics and organizational things first. THEN they can go kill. Which is way harder than just 20 people soloing a cruiser (I'm not even talking about bigger ships here....)

Unfortunately this will happen regardless of what kind of crew you have. Bigger/stronger/meaner orgs will beat up on smaller/weaker/nicer orgs, and Reavers frag everybody and everything in sight. A large Reaver org is almost a contradiction in terms but they do pop up from time to time and wreck havoc across the gamescapes until they burn themselves out and degenerate into squabbling rival groups.

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If a fully bot-ed battleship is a problem (which i understand and even agree with), then cap the crew management at 5 crewmen. This way a player can effectively fly a frigate sized ship on their own if they want to, or join other players on a large ship without their crew, or as officer/nco/department head and manage their own section of npc crewmen as well as their own console.

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Unfortunately this will happen regardless of what kind of crew you have. Bigger/stronger/meaner orgs will beat up on smaller/weaker/nicer orgs, and Reavers frag everybody and everything in sight. A large Reaver org is almost a contradiction in terms but they do pop up from time to time and wreck havoc across the gamescapes until they burn themselves out and degenerate into squabbling rival groups.

Well, yes it will happen. Ofc larger groups can and will always stomp little ones (when they don't play the metagame and ally themselves with others). Pvp never is fair in a sandbox.

But that doesn't mean that you should give everyone the opportunity to do that. You create unbalanced and broken mechanics that way, which makes it pretty much useless to attack anyone because they can just defend with only some players online. Or defend anything

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Personally i like the idea of requiring multiple people to crew any ship that is larger then a fighter. I feel like this will have a big impact on how ships are designed. However, I hope that the concept of 1 person manning 1 gun that JC mentioned on the facebook vid is not exactly how it works. I think NQ should focus on the majority of ships being crewed by 1-7 people. There is a reason basically every game(league, overwatch, dota, pubg, hearthstone/card games, Diablo 3, h1z1, cs:go) are all solo/small group oriented. Older games like WoW are shifting focus to groups of that size being a focus with recent mythic dungeon changes. This seems to be a group size that most people enjoy and works well. Orgs can be larger and there will always be that group of people who want to make huge ships with 50 person crews but i feel like the vast majority of the player base will want to have the solo-7 player ship they fly and can interact with the org they are part of by landing on the orgs space station or w/e.

 

Restricting players to a single gun will greatly limit ship design in this small group range. So i hope that as a player develops they can use several of the same gun, grouped with a penalty, or rotate to different guns while others are on a cooldown. There will still be a max that any one player can ever effectively fire and it would still be better to have 1 person per gun but not hard required. This method would hopefully have a positive impact on small group ship designs and diversity.

 

Edit: forgot CS:GO

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If a fully bot-ed battleship is a problem (which i understand and even agree with), then cap the crew management at 5 crewmen. This way a player can effectively fly a frigate sized ship on their own if they want to, or join other players on a large ship without their crew, or as officer/nco/department head and manage their own section of npc crewmen as well as their own console.

Something easier I have suggested, which is having a person able to enter "gimbaling" training, for handling multiple turrets with one console.

 

How will that work? I can think at least 1000 lines of Lua script on the top of my head for how to do the snycing.

 

Worst case scenario, make a script that fires guns ahead of your ship o nfixed positions.

 

The real problem is SMART turrets, not grouped / gimbaled turrets. SMART turrets make multicrew pointless.

 

And also, the gimbaling should take away from the ship's CPU, as handling more devices would also tax your Core, prossibly even slowing down your ship's "cycles" on actions.

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Personally i like the idea of requiring multiple people to crew any ship that is larger then a fighter. I feel like this will have a big impact on how ships are designed. However, I hope that the concept of 1 person manning 1 gun that JC mentioned on the facebook vid is not exactly how it works. I think NQ should focus on the majority of ships being crewed by 1-7 people. There is a reason basically every game(league, overwatch, dota, pubg, hearthstone/card games, Diablo 3, h1z1, cs:go) are all solo/small group oriented. Older games like WoW are shifting focus to groups of that size being a focus with recent mythic dungeon changes. This seems to be a group size that most people enjoy and works well. Orgs can be larger and there will always be that group of people who want to make huge ships with 50 person crews but i feel like the vast majority of the player base will want to have the solo-7 player ship they fly and can interact with the org they are part of by landing on the orgs space station or w/e.

 

Restricting players to a single gun will greatly limit ship design in this small group range. So i hope that as a player develops they can use several of the same gun, grouped with a penalty, or rotate to different guns while others are on a cooldown. There will still be a max that any one player can ever effectively fire and it would still be better to have 1 person per gun but not hard required. This method would hopefully have a positive impact on small group ship designs and diversity.

 

Edit: forgot CS:GO

Yeah, well, tough luck, NQ have siad solo palyers will be able to do many thing,s but not what large alliances can do.

 

A frigate is a "5-man party" kind of ship. A destroyer is a class above with 10, then crusiers go more and more, until a ship has to have 100 peopel to crew it.

 

 

Imagine Blizzard going "hmm, you know what, isntead of reducing the number of peole in high-tier raids to help smalelr sized guilds who can't reach 40 man numbers, instead, we make the missing raid members NPCs".

 

Just think about this for a while. Just think of how stupid what I borught as an exmaple sounds. if Blizzard made thar t kind of move, it would just piss in the face of high-tier raiders in WoW.

 

 

Or think CCP going "well, we know TEST and GSF have thousands of people to fleet enormous fleets, but lil' timmy and his group should fight on fair ground ,so let's give timmy +50000% eHP and +50% to resitances, unlimited drone count for his VNI and on top of that, make his drones actually be Apocalypse Navy Issue".

 

 

 

People should not be able to fly what they can't afford to crew.

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Yay! Finally some people that get it. I dont care if it's npc bots, costructed ai droids, or grouped systems, i just dont want to be some kind of simpleton who can only do one thing at a time. RL single-seat fighter pilots must be able to operate multiple weapons systems, sensors, counter measures, nav tools, comms, and a dozen other things all on their own. Why would we lose the ability to multitask thousands of years in the future? Serious question: Did the Arkship crash give us all brain damage beyond the memory wipe? If they put something like that in the lore I'll shut up and move on. I won't like it, but I'll accept it since then the one player per element rule would make some kind of sense.

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Yay! Finally some people that get it. I dont care if it's npc bots, costructed ai droids, or grouped systems, i just dont want to be some kind of simpleton who can only do one thing at a time. RL single-seat fighter pilots must be able to operate multiple weapons systems, sensors, counter measures, nav tools, comms, and a dozen other things all on their own. Why would we lose the ability to multitask thousands of years in the future? Serious question: Did the Arkship crash give us all brain damage beyond the memory wipe? If they put something like that in the lore I'll shut up and move on. I won't like it, but I'll accept it since then the one player per element rule would make some kind of sense.

Yeah, being able to oeprate multiple things is not the same as "my guns fire on their own". Being able to switch between missile and peashooter is acceptable, being able to set peashooters to fire on their own is not.

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Switching systems also brings up questions like:

How many elements can you tie in to a console?

Can you network your consoles?

Different types of elements on the same console?

I think I've seen something like this elsewhere in the forum or dev diary or something but not sure what they said about it. I'll look around for it.

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Yay! Finally some people that get it. I dont care if it's npc bots, costructed ai droids, or grouped systems, i just dont want to be some kind of simpleton who can only do one thing at a time. RL single-seat fighter pilots must be able to operate multiple weapons systems, sensors, counter measures, nav tools, comms, and a dozen other things all on their own. Why would we lose the ability to multitask thousands of years in the future? Serious question: Did the Arkship crash give us all brain damage beyond the memory wipe? If they put something like that in the lore I'll shut up and move on. I won't like it, but I'll accept it since then the one player per element rule would make some kind of sense.

Your logic is basically , "Well i can fly a single seat fighter jet solo so therefor i should be able to fly a B52 at full functionality solo as well too" Yes a pilot could pilot it but he wouldn't be able to run the rest of the duties of the crew with any efficiency. 

 

Also yes the memory wipe thing is exactly what happens. The skill system and lore wise the Arks AI lets us relearn things as we play.

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