blazemonger

@slipp_ In all honesty, if you need to ask this question, at this stage you should probably wait.

I was more referring to responses that your OP to be honest. NQ has said on several occasions there will be no reseeding of ore and IMO that is a good choice seeing how their objective is to build communities and civilisation. As I see it he game will be all about that as well as it's progression will create new/different opportunities to make money. I'll take your points in OP and comment.. all this IMO obviously, your mileage may well vary.. This would go against the concept and vision NQ has and has shared on several occasions. If you keep feeding cheap resources into an economy it will stagnate and people get lazy because why bother. You seem to focus a lot on 'cheap' and 'free' (must be the Dutch connection Disclaimer.. so am I) This game is not about having to start from the basics as far as I see it, it will be about how you use the resources at hand and adjust. At the start that will mean a lot of local mining and crafting, later it may include finding a job with a business or going criminal and steal what you need.. it is all fluid and will change over time as the game evolves and progresses. INMO this is a core element of DU which sets it apart from most other MMOs where the mechanics or progression and opportunity are basically static and determined by the developer. No need, buy the time Alioth gets too crowded many colonies with available travel routes there will have been established. Then why bother with things like effort? again, like 1, this is not about getting stuff easy or without effort Possibly, although one can't build near the arkship. How new players are introduced to organisations will be a big thing towards release I expect. I could see NQ create something like the displays you see around NEw Eden in EVE and obviously community platforms and websites will play a part. Overall I do believe that DU will be extremely community focussed, pretty much like EVE. While you can go solo and be on your own you would generally have an organisation you are part of who provide a 'base' and facilities . I think that is a vital component of the story here and without it, DU basically becomes Space Engineers IMO.

What everyone seems to overlook is that he whole idea of DU is that it will build communities and civilisation. As time progresses it will become less and less needed to mine Alioth as people will have established trade routes, will have come up with solutions to find and mine resources in less invasive ways and overall the ecosystem and economy will be at a point where a new player will not need to start with mining to get his first ship. He or she can join a company excavating ores on other planets for a salary, taking the existing transport routes and ships to and from there. As the game progresses the needs and options for new players will change and evolve. In fact I believe that 2-3 years after release life for a new player will be easier and there will be much more lucrative and 'easy' ways to find work and make money to buy a ship or materials to design your own.

@Miamato I get what you are saying and agree to a point. I would not call myself an expert and while my initial response may have been a bit strong I do believe that my idea of EVE is not unfair. EVE has a different economy because it is mainly driven by one thing, ships being blown up. In DU there will be more, much more, factors that wil come into that and drive the market, things like product actually designed by players and unique to their 'business'. Combat will differ because there is no one person sitting in a carrier controlling every aspect of its operation (even when ships in EVE lore carry sometimes thouands of crew). Business will be different because DU will offer the opportunity to become a specialist in components like designing control mechanisms, detection and defense product and so on. Stuff that is always predefined in EVE by CCP. So yes, while we know little of the eventual meta game in DU, from what we know we can say it will be vastly different from EVE. Roleplay and 'out of ship' content is real and exist in EVE sure. It manifests outside of the game though for the most part. My corp follows specific rules and definitions of what we do or do not do which creates a strong counter culture in EVE. That much is true so i guess to a point you are correct. What I do believe though is that in DU much of this will actually take place in game 'for real' and not be a fictional even that is only there on paper or in people roleplay mind. I think DU actually taking some of this and building it right into the abilities for players to create in game is what sets it apart and makes if so interesting. So yes, I certainly agree DU takes many cues from EVE but not in a literal way. It does so for a number of other concepts which, again, I believe is what will eventually set the game apart as unique and 'special' For me, Du will never replace EVE, there is too much I enjoy and practice in EVE that will never be possible in DU. But I am certain the opposite will also be the case so for me the two will co-exist quite nicely.. DU will for me pretty much replace games like Space Engineers.

We have no idea of what he Meta game for DU will be yet, it will be at least a year until we have somewhat of an idea. If you think you are describing the EVE metagame above you really do not understand EVE. For one economy, community, business and combat will be vastly different. Outside of Lore there is no component of civilian life in EVE nor is there any form of design, implementation of features and industry to speak of. EVE is basically 'Magic The Gathering in Space', your ship is basically your card deck. From the very sparse info we have DU will much more like real life in most aspects and not just about spaceships, how you fit them and fly them. In fact combat and use of vessels will be vastly different, really without any compare.

I am not a moderator so I will just share my personal view and opinion on your comments and post. If you are coming here to be informed, ask questions or otherwise be a constructive part of the community that's great. Generally, if you are critical with reasonable arguments that is fine too. To me it appears you are not doing either you are pushing an agenda which seems to serve no purpose but to stir up sentiment and argument. You are also spamming a misinformed, biased and overall bad video of another game for no reason. Your comments show you do not really understand the concept of the early access, supporter packs. The monetization model NQ has chosen for DU is sensible, reasonable and I expect will be fairly priced. You will have the option to work your way towards buying gametime using in game currency so the choice of not paying real world money is there. Bottom line is you have a choice; get in early, be part of the development of the game and as a perk get some goodies and prepay X amount of monthly gametime fees which you can use once the game goes live or wait until release and start playing then using the monthly fee which is assumed to be around $15 or so but is yet to be confirmed. As I see it, that your previous thread was closed has nothing to do with being fascist, it has to do with you not adhering to the existing forum etiquette and rules.

I get what you are trying to say, it's fine.. In the context of the supporter packs the term "now" does not refer to being able to access the game immediately (at any time), it refers to buying into the supporter pack which "now" grants access to servers when they are open.

You are not 'investing' in anything as you get nothing in return that would allow you to make a profit. You are not a stakeholder in the company or game, do not own rights or shares in the product nor do you have a seat at the table regarding development. You are entitled to access to a game which is in very early stages of development. An analogy would be you are paying money to sit in the audience while a theatre production is being created, watching the process and progress. Your money goes towards the actual creation of the play. If, after you check out the vision and commitment of NQ to making DU a reality you want to support them in doing so you pledge. making a pledge by paying amount X will get you early access at some stage and a number of perks/benefits. It does not buy you entitlements nor guarantees the game will actually eventually release and be the game you believe it will be. Overall the amount you pay covers the cost of buying DAC by itself, you basically buy X months playtime upfront and in one payment and get an additional number of perks based on the level you buy in at. That playtime will start getting consumed at some point in the future, at or close to release. Until then you get access to the game in development during the times the developer decides to open the servers.. Frankly, if you are asking the questions you are asking IMO you are not ready to become a supporter for the game by buying into a supporter pack. It's absolutely fine if you choose to wait it out, be around and follow progress 'from the outside'. You can then always just come in once the game goes live.

But DU is nothing like EVE except for being a single persistent universe with a sci-fi setting and I believe those expecting the same type of gameplay and engagements will find they end up disappointed. DU is to EVE what a lemon is to a lime. Both citrus fruit but either very different to the other with equally different application (gameplay).

While you are entitled to your opinion obviously, to me what you describe is a paranoid monocratic despot.

Very true @Anopheles.. As an example, for Signal Cartel we see many possible opportunities already present in the game much like we are in EVE, as a counter culture which builds a protective reputation based on neutrality and service oriented mindset. Right now we are but a few but by growing with the game we will find and develop ways to make our playstyle work. Will we encounter those who just shoot to kill and do not care? sure, bu that is part of the consequence of how we play the game. Overall though I am confident we will be able to build our rep and offer what we can offer the way we choose to and not let other factors dictate that. By gradually bringing members into the game as it progresses and develops we can build a strong organizational structure, obviously some requirements such as not allowing membership of multiple orgs to maintain our neutrality will limit appeal, it will also attract the right people at the same time though.

I think that there is a good chance of people coming in to the game, signing up with an org based on the expectations and promises set by said org and then finding these are based on nothing but fantasy with no actually ability to make this work. Running an org is not about you calling yourself General, CEO, president or whatever. Running an Org in the scale of DU will require actual leadership and management skills that I fear a lot of those now creating such orgs lack. People will tend to not distinguish player created content from developer ones and will blame the game if these things fall apart. Not always and not in every situation obviously, but negative experiences are generally shared 10-5 times more than good ones so a bad rep spreads fast, even when not justified. So yes, I feel there may need to be more control over orgs, when they are created, how and through which platforms they communicate (as in using developer media platforms). Will it kill the game, certainly not! It may well cause some bad rep to spread though, which IMO is a real potential issue. I'm not saying this will spell doom as it won't, but it would be something I would want to manage/control if I were a games developer.

Simply brushing the argument aside with an opportunistic comment seems somewhat easy. Even when OP is exaggerating, he does have a point. I think the current orgs in general really have no context, they mostly have no reason to exist and quite a few seem to be more about the 'leadership' not looking out for anything but them being leaders/CEO/King/General of their own little piece of DU. As mentioned I do believe most of these will fall apart quickly especially the ones built around conquest and conflict as a main driver IMO. The orgs that are emerging in more specialist and unique ways would tend to be able to grow and flourish much more and much faster. The problem will be though that these failing orgs will potentially leave a lot of collateral damage which may actually impact the game in a negative way if people come away with a bad taste. So yes I would agree that it may be better to at least not have orgs establish and promote themselves as much as happens now, especially on 'official' platforms. I do believe this will resolve itself within the first 6 months after the game goes live for reasons mentioned earlier.

As I see it I would not worry too much. The 'Organizational landscape' will change drastically once it becomes apparent that running an org is not easy and requires RL skills, effort and a _lot_ of time. Many current orgs are fairly loosely knit communities where infighting and general disagreements will cause breakup of some of the bigger ones very soon after the game starts going. The current framework is mostly a placeholder IMO and while there are a few solid, well organized ones, these are generally specialized and not the dime a dozen 'we will kill you if we want your land and you do not submit' type of which there are too many. Also it's interesting how so many seem to think that just setting up a military or government style leadership structure will make things work.. A title is just that unless the person holding it understands what it means to bear it.

There's been quite a few bittervets come out of the woodworks making wild speculative statements. Facts are CCP was sold to a gaming oriented investor by a purely financial oriented investor. They have not been independent for about 13 years. The obvious memes aside, I doubt PA would want to destroy a profitable and viable model of operation for CCP. EVE is not BDO and while either can probably benefit from what the other birings to the table they could never run under the same model. PA has had a big issue with PR, customer support and marketing, areas where CCP actually can teach them a thing or two. If you actually read the article, which pretty much hits the nail on the head as far as what the CCP plans have been evolving towards over the past three or so years, it should be obvious this will be a good thing. Will there be more microtransactions? probably but that is not due to PA but more a progression of the road chosen several years ago. The restructure and rework of the core (GFX) engine has already started and is looking really good as seen in the current Abyssal instanced PVE content. In two weeks it's time for EVE Vegas again and as usual myself and other attendees will be able to discuss these plans with the devs in person for three days. There will be lots of questions but I believe there will be a good bit of clarification and direction coming from these talks as has been the case in the past few years. EVE will be around for many more years and will remain a standard in the SciFi MMO business for others to match and try to surpass.

Comparing EVE to DU really stops at both being MMO sandbox style games in a sci-fi setting (aka spaceships). The two are completely different games even when NQ is very clearly taking quite a few queues from EVE. Saying that DU has more depth than EVE IMO only means you do not understand or realize what EVE actually offers beyond pewpew. EVE is an established game with mechanics and possibilities which will never be available in DU as much as the other way around. People have created gameplay in EVE which was never foreseen by the developers and yes, virtually any path you would like to take in EVE is open to you to pursue. For now EVE is an established universe with a profitable model for the developer. While the promise of DU is fantastic, it will still have to prove it self and in many ways is even more niche and nerdville central than eve is (and that is saying something).

The regios of EVE where you would expect to be safer are actually the more unpredictable and ruthless. I'd agree that a lot of the stories and sentiments heard against here are based on bad experience, carelessness or general ignorance. I am an explorer in EVE, I make my income from finding and running high end exploration content and also enjoy the roams and community events my corp provides. I have fun in EVE and enough of it. EVE will give you exactly what you put in, if you choose to not put in the effort and try to make it the easy way you'll not enjoy your time. It's interesting to read some of the comments here as it appears in quite a few cases people have a misconception that it will be better in DU. It won't be as DU will be far more unpredictable, dangerous, harsh and unforgiving than EVE ever will be. If you fail to grasp the basic concepts in EVE, you will likely get very much lost in DU.

When I came across DU it immediately felt like a logical next step from EVE. There is a lot of EVE in DU but there's more that is unique and IMO missing from EVE. In my vision DU pretty much is kind of the precursor to the lore of EVE, the moment where the Human race arrives in a new universe and their way back collapses. So they set out from this point of no return and over the ages, empires and technology evolves and develops. That in fact is where the story of EVE starts pretty much even when the game itself is set many hundreds of years after these events happened. In DU that part of the story actually is where we all begin so it will be interesting and fascinating to see how this develops.

http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2018/09/dual-universe-1200-concurrency-simulation.html Especially this bit IMO: Because you could always use that architecture not as a MMO space game but as a general purpose Metaverse architecture... with those other inclusions like a marketplace and currency system, etc. If they ever did, it would put literally everything to shame overnight.

While I disagree withe the paranoia regarding this. It is not NQ's data under EU law. It is actually ours. NQ can use the data under GPDR regulations but does not own it, pretty much like you do not own a copy of the DU client, you are licensed to use what is owned by NQ under the conditions they set.

Actually it identifies accounts behind it, not the person owning the account. The bot has no information regarding who I am in RL. Frankly, for the purpose of identifying accounts and their eligibility to access NDA forums of the DU Discord I really see no issue here at all. It is where this mechanism extends its control to other Discord servers/channels through the separate 'public' bot that I see an issue.

We both know there is stuff in the NDA forums that will be fine to use and show once NDA lifts, Lua code for one. A blanket statement like the quote would not hold for that reason. But we're getting off track here. Makes two of us but I'm pretty sure that is because some can't separate opinion and well meant but sometimes maybe harsh words from personal feelings. I would not know why I would not like you at all as you seem to be an enthusiast who gives way to much of his time away doing what you hopefully enjoy doing.. For what it's worth I certainly appreciate the work you put into all this as I know the amount of work and time it takes all too well. My feelings on the bot(s) do not in any way relate to any of that.

When NDA drops I would hope and expect those who have access now will retain access to the relevant channels as there is a good bit of information there which will remain valid and can be published/used once NDA drops.

I figured that much, yes. So if I understand correctly, in reality what this means is that NQ gets control over what access level you can provide on your own Discord. If you have pre-alpha access and adhere to NDA rules, yet do not want to participate in DU discord (anymore) or get kicked from the DU Discord you would lose access to NDA restricted channels anywhere the bot is run as soon as it syncs. I agree this will be irrelevant once the NDA lifts, which could be a long time. I like the basic idea of the bots and guess their use is limited to NDA related access. It would be nice to eventually see a more rounded API based out of the account servers which would allow for instance to set up access based on being a member of a specific org. That's well into the future though as I have no doubt NQ has much bigger fish to fry for the next year or so.

It's not about your work in this @yamamushi. I think the idea of the bot is great. The authentication should be linked to the account, not to a bot on the Discord. What happens if someone authenticates an leaves the Discord or gets kicked?