Kurock

No anger, just disappointment. I kind of agree with point 1 but for 2 I never defined exactly *how* it would work, just a broad idea on *what* it could be. It could be no more boring than hacking e.g. Using a mini game. After an item is stolen, does the thief automatically get full use of it? That seems highly abusable. When (if ever) does it lose its "stolen" status? Would people be happy if a stolen item remains stolen but is still useable/sellable with exception of some items that can be locked down e.g. Containers, doors, ships etc. (These would need to be hacked to gain access). So now that cleaners are out of the picture, an item can only lose its stolen status when returned to its rightful owner.

Player job boards. Because why not stay on topic?

Which Empire would this be? There are four pages of Empires in the community site, so being a little more specific would be great.

Please play nice so we can discuss ideas without resorting to belittling. The backsliding into old ways are entirely unnecessary.

I didn't actually specify any actual gameplay but I did make a suggestion on how to get around a locked down RDMS. What this discussion has made clear is that a cleaner, while it would be an interesting hacker job, is not the answer to the RDMS lockdown, which was the point of this thread. Does anyone else have any thoughts on the cleaners?

Master Blueprints (aka original blueprints) being lootable or not is also not part of this discussion (though JC did say they would be not be lootable, though again anything can change.) The Cleaner alt argument is pretty null and void since the same can be said for pretty much any set of skills. I have faith that NQ will make a system that is not tedious. Just because I certainly have not thought of all the minutae that could make for an interesting cleaner gameplay, does not mean its not possible. Perhaps a similar system to hacking could be used. Perhaps they are just specialized hackers that need to use a massive machine instead of being out in the field. Just as a miner does not have to be an industrialist, a pirate does not have to be a cleaner. broker - a person who buys and sells goods or assets for others fence - a person who deals in stolen goods So I very much mean a fence. A fence buys and sells *stolen* goods. So I did mean "stolen" instead of "illegal" though usually the one does mean the other. Though I do agree "illegal" in DU is pretty subjective and pretty meaningless in this discussion. And I would tone down the condescension a tad and explain difficult concepts like economics in a friendly and pleasant fashion involving many MMO references.

Hence the all at once Cleaner. You can still do it one at a time if you really want to. Nope. The right on a gun is the right to use it anywhere. Else there is little point. Just leave the area and anyone can use it. Suppressing attacking (or outlawing) inside an area is a completely different discussion. The limitation is on *use*. Not selling. But since no one else can use it either, its market price is a bit on the non-existent side. Also I did mention that the cleaner cleans them all, so no grind. Imagine ship sized cleaners wiping the entire ship clean in one go. I agree that the current system must make sense. Something that could have a biometric scanner on it, should be RDMS lockable. This could include guns but not their ammunition for example. Well I cannot use a gun while its still inside the nano-box, so that makes it pretty useless limitation. Territory permissions are actually a separate discussion completely. This is unnecessary hyperbole to make a point. Does a usual pair of leather boots have a biometric scanner in them? Well the rocks do, so why not boots? I think items that cannot be explicitly used should just be marked as "stolen". There is a difference between wearing something and activating it (e.g. jetpack) That is just it. You can pick it up. You just can't use it. Equipping is a bit of a grey area since, in some cases it makes sense and others not. I think this is one of the areas that need to be ironed out. Not all items are created equal and so RDMS should not apply to all items. Finally a counterargument. You make disenchanting sound like a bad thing. Call it what it is: Removing tags. Soulbound is again unnecessary hyperbole (though, to be fair, that is what the current unfinished RDMS system effectively is). The only soulbound items should be Quanta (that's the money in DU) and master blueprints. The rest can be hacked and cleaned. As for pirates complaining about having to drop their goods off at a fence (that's a person that buys illegally obtained goods)... well they were going to do that anyway. The fence just happens to have to clean the goods before reselling. Complaining about that is a bit like miners complaining that they have to learn how to scan for resources as well as all those mining skills. It's not like this is a MMO with other players that will do those jobs you don't want to do. But wait. It is.

Just to be clear, this is IRL hacking which is illegal IRL. The feature known as "hacking" ingame will be allowed. I know this may seem obvious to some, but you can never be sure about others.

What's with this double posting, Twerk? I think we should separate "usable items" (weapons and elements with a button that does something), and "components" (for example raw ores, ingots, materials etc). The components will just be marked as "stolen" but can still be thrown into a forge or used up. So while the cleaning could extend to these, it is less of an issue since the components can be used anyway. So for this discussion we are looking at those usable items. e.g. Crates, guns, etc. Usually a container will be filled with "components" aka unusable stuff. So no cleaning is required once you are inside the box. But what about containers filled with weapons. Each will necessarily need to be cleaned separately, just like each element in a ship will need to have its tags stripped. So the one argument is that it would be tedious to do each item separately. But then there is another saying doing all of them at once would be boring. Which one is right? Why not both? So here is the idea, how about a seperation between the hacker and the cleaner? Hacking is for fast jobs on the spot. A finesse job. It is the scalpel. Ideal for getting specific jobs done. But could become very tedious if all tags need to be changed. Cleaning is for bulk jobs. It requires large machinery to accomplish. It is a sledgehammer way of hacking: a powerful magnet wiping everything off the hard drive. So put that container with 10000 items between the plates and commence wiping. It only wipes tags, it does not add new ones. That still needs to be done, but this assumes anyone can apply their tags to a tagless item. Side Note: This is probably going to be really far removed from what is implemented in DU in the end and since we don't know everything that is planned, it would not be possible to come up with a meaningful solution, but its still fun using what we know and coming up with ideas (no matter how crazy). Interesting discussion. Carry on.

It has recently come to light that with RDMS players will be able to lock others out of using equipment and most likely elements. Without the correct rights, those items become unusable. But this raises a concern from the pirates: "Oi matey! How do we use the stuff we work so hard to steal? Those skull and crossbones stickers won't pay for themselves." My answer is: Sorry, stolen items cannot be used. At least not yet. This is the idea: Loot laundering and the DU equivalent of a chop shop. A place for pirates to take their ill gotten gains and have it "cleaned". Have the tags removed and have the equipment/elements made ready to receive new tags. But this should not be an instantaneous action. This is a process. A bit like hacking but with less finesse and it takes a bit longer and requires some machinery so that it cannot simply be done out in the field. Perhaps a special element that strips away tags on the items/elements placed in it. Perhaps a specific player skill. Perhaps a combination of the two. Discuss!

Since there are no such thing as buildings and ships in DU, only constructs, nothing prevents you from creating a very small construct with container and hover element on it and call it a "hover-pallet". I like the idea, and hope it is possible "out of the box" in DU.

I would still advocate a separate scanning element since they are going to be in the game anyway in various forms. Also I don't see the stargate as a scanner itself, it just has 1 job: to open that magical space to take people to a distant space. I doubt it will actually care about the mass going through it. Also not all orgs will necessarily care to add the "scanner module" to the stargate. But all that aside, as long as it's possible, I will be most pleased.

This is a pretty good system, though I believe we, as players, should be given the building blocks to build a system like this ourselves. Then a system like this could be used for more than just stargates. And I don't think it will take much in the way of building blocks to accomplish. RDMS, a ship scanner and some LUA could conceivably be used to create the "Weighbridge of the Star(gate)s".

A handy poll, but on the other hand...

Alpha and Beta will not use DACs. This has been a public service announcement.

Greetings What first got you interested in Dual Universe?

Good luck, commander. o7

Maybe a short description about what ACS actually is might be helpful?

Just to reiterate: JC has indicated that a ship will not move when no one is on board (and likely gain a protection bubble of some kind), so there will be no logging off and waiting a while to teleport across the galaxy. At least not solo. But this is an MMO, so with multiple people flying in shifts will keep the ship moving along with its precious cargo of lifepods. The only issue I have with logging off on the ship without using an element (like a cryopod) are stowaways with malicious intent. I do think this would be interesting game play to allow for stowaways but not allowing cheesing of the log off mechanics. Perhaps logging off/reappearing on a ship could be tied to the RDMS of that ship. This would allow for stowaways (as long as they stay logged in) but it would not be practical for very long journeys. While stasis-pods are more immersive, a system still necessarily must exist without them because the internet is not 100% reliable all of the time. Disconnects happen. Being lost in space without a ship due to a disconnect is a great way to lose players. Using RDMS may be a way to ensure that it is not abused.

Welcome. Always glad to see more like-minded organizations.

I put it down to my bad explanations then (And I agree with what you said, because that is exactly how rez nodes work) The point is that it was indicated by JC that DU *may* allow for a free once off switch to the new arkship when the time comes. Though I think this is quite a way away (around 2 years after release). The OP was suggesting special organization related rez nodes, which means new players belonging to an org can just rez at the org home base. Which at first glance looks quite appealing to organizations that have a base far from the arkship or for the more nomadic organizations. But ultimately defeats player interaction and the resultant emergent gameplay. I don't think this will be the last time that convenience is weighed against the creation principles of the game.

I am going to shamelessly steal Lord_Voids blerp about progression in DU: Soft skills are exactly what a master can and should teach apprentices. Having any sort of bonus on the skill tree progression means that people that do not know about the said bonus will lose out, even if it is just to starting skills. The starting skills are already supposed to be able to be learnt in a really short amount of time. Why? So that everyone can try them out. Crafting skills are just one branch of the skill tree, so like all skills, expect the highest tier stuff to take a good while to learn. It has been mentioned before that it is technically possible to learn all the skills in the entire tree, but it will take a very very long time. How long is still not exactly known (for obvious reasons).

I don't know if you are trolling or I am failing to explain properly. You realize we are talking about changing your arkship rez node to the 2nd arkship rez node when it is discovered in around 2 years time?

But "switching" I mean changing your "zeroth" rez node: The rez node you will spawn at when all other rez nodes fail. So no, you can't change where you will rez normally: it will always be the closest one.

Ah. Slight misunderstanding here. Your original reply could be taken to mean that anyone can switch to anywhere. But I assume that you meant the switch only to the new ark zone starting area. I don't have an issue with the switch to the ark zone area, since it is effectively where you respawn when all your other rez nodes have failed. But switching to any rez node anywhere just seems... well... silly.