CousinSal
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Posts posted by CousinSal
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Exactly, unless you have real system wide pvp, territory control, and real constant player interaction this game is better suited for servers they rent out like space engineers. As the game stands I don't see any real point at all for single shard. It's a detriment to all other mechanics, which can be fine if the focus is on player interaction but this game is all about build your own ship, your own land, then beg people to come see it in VR or post screen shots some where. It's boring and this won't be sustainable as a subscription mmo.
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Maybe with such a huge core breach and explosion all elements should be destroyed. Only makes sense.
- Mjrlun and DarkHorizon
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5 hours ago, Catarix said:
maybe. I bought DU exactly because of 'Player driven game' slogan. It expected to have the same freedom as 'you know what game'
so I wish this game my best and I will check it next year.
Exactly, people joined this game because it was pitched player driven. But if NQ pops up at every turn say "no you can't do that" it's not player driven at all. My guns shouldn't magically stop working if I pass a random point in space. There should be no aphelia market at all (except maybe xs parts for newbies at haven) orgs should he able to own planets and set taxes they feel appropriate, not pay aphelia. It's all bad all around and game won't be here very soon because of this.
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Remember performance only got better because they lost so many players after initial launch. They NEVER have had the numbers they during first month of release. People already started leaving before 0.23
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5 hours ago, RugesV said:
I was shocked when they said they are considering removing schemattics. I get they are highly unpopular, and a sticking point for some people. But they are a gate keeper for production. It means when someone wants an item they will actually check the market instead of build it themselves. It is also the largest quanta sink ingame. If anything I feel that the prices on schemattics are far to cheap. Even for basic stuff.
You make it harder to get production setup , less people will setup personal production lines and buy the item off the market.
That's fine in a game like EvE, but DU has hardly any content so of course most people do some factory stuff. That's why 0.23 so many people left. And it shows just how lacking DU is in sustainable content.
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Either pvp everywhere except Sanctuary like what was promised, or just remove it completely.
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8 hours ago, Zeddrick said:
We have the base shield now. Or does that only work on alien cores?
The base shield doesn't protect ships. So you can't dock and live on that base.
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1 hour ago, Zeddrick said:
Talking about the physical size of the PvP area is obviously silly. Instead talk about what is in that area. The PvP area is mostly empty. There are some asteroids and 10 alien cores. That's it. The non PvP area has all the planets and moons and all the markets.
Clearly most of the game is in the non-PvP area regardless of how much big empty space is technically PvP.
What is needed for PvP to work isn't space but locations where people go and reasons for being there. That's how you combine pirates with people who want to risk pirate attacks, etc.
And a way where we can risk some bases without losing them while we sleep. I've had my EvE bases destroyed on multiple occasions, but because of the timers I was able to be there to try to defend. Sometimes successfully Sometimes not
But the fun is in trying an experiencing the battle.
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48 minutes ago, Zarcata said:
What is it with you guys and "PvP is too small and only visible at the edges"? PvP is the largest area in the game, so this small safe zone is hardly worth mentioning.
The problem is not the size of the zone, but that there are too few interested PvP players. But that's not the fault of the PvE players.
What prevents PvPers from building up space bases in PvP and then simply defending them? That's right, you could lose them, which is why PvPers also prefer to build in the safe zone....Wrong on every level. People don't want to lose them OFFLINE. EvE online has every player base in a pvp zone. But we can store ships and loot and factories there. But there is timers. People have lives and can't play a video game 24/7 yo guard base. Bases die daily in eve look at zkillboars. But I don't expect you to understand this simple concept judging by other posts I've read of yours.
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Huge safe zones where you can't wage war. Pvp pushed to the edges for a a few niche plasma 99% of the player base doesn't care about. No player markets, and now NQ making showrooms and exchange because captains customs and all the countless others weren't good enough? This game has 0 npcs or real pve content and was marketed as player driven, yet every patch they restrict what a player can do in the universe. I don't see this game lasting 6 months past "release".
- Sabretooth, LeeFall, Catarix and 2 others
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40 minutes ago, Briggenti said:
Thank you for the response! I'm not used to seeing NQ responses in devblog threads!
I appreciate and agree a centralized place (or network of places) where players can advertise themselves is needed after the cleanup of the markets.You mentioned this could the first of more. Is the thought to expand one Exchange over time, to accommodate more player spaces, or would there be more Exchanges spread over the system?
If there were multiple Exchanges, could a player or org have a space in more than one Exchange?
What about captains customs, or the many other places that had showrooms. I guess [filtered] player driven content.
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So much for player driven. Is this what NQ spends their time on? Something inferior to that players have already created years ago?
- DecoyGoatBomb, B4nd1t, Quaideluz and 4 others
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4 hours ago, RugesV said:
If eve was a PVP only game it would have never survived. If eve was a PVE only game it would have never survived. I think the same thing applies to DU. If DU was a builders only game, it would not survive. And personally I think the game needs actual PVE content to survive. Because the more demographics you bring into the game the more robust you make it.
The thing with EvE tho is everyone exists in the "pvp world". When you undock your ship you consent to pvp, verbatim from the devs at CCP. That matters. It means the whole game world is pvp. But I do agree it needed it's pve also, but once again, it's pve exists within the pvp world. As shown by the millions that have played eve over 20 years and the 150 people that pvp in DU...that matters. It's everything.
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4 hours ago, RugesV said:
You dont need to test this. I can already tell you what will happen. First off, hardcore players will move all there assets to sanctuary. PVPers and trollers and pirates will spend all there time destroying everything that is left behind. Anyone that did not move there stuff, and got destroyed would leave the game. The pvpers/trollers/pirates would have a great month or so of wiping all the planets. then they too would begin to leave the game as they ran out of targets. Miners would leave the game as they can no longer automine on planets, they could get away with astroid mining while the pvpers are buisy wiping the planets. but as planets become ghost towns asteroids would then become camped too. So most miners would leave the game. This would result in industrialist leaving the game as they can no longer get the resources to make things. And finally builders would leave the game as noone is there to buy or look at the stuff they build.
It would not die off completely as there would always be hardcore players in each field to play the game. However the question becomes does NQ make enough money off these players to keep the servers running. Let alone develop/fix new/old content.
What you described Is more activity then they currently have so that's an upgrade. And to answer your last question, I would say the same thing about DUs current state. They're aren't enough builders and people who calibrate automated mining to sustain this game, anyone who's played mmos can see that.
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2 minutes ago, blazemonger said:
I have never said I was against that, in fact I believe it needs to happen once the right mechanics are in the game.
Difference between you and me it seems, is that I see removal of these as a result of progreess in game design while for you it is what you need to make the world burn.
That makes literally no sense what you wrote. I see it as progress and only way to accomplish actually gameplay that you spoke about. Pvpers don't "want to see the world burn" they want a game where they can have freedom and pvp and player driven content like NQ promised us. If the world burned then there wouldn't be a game. Get your shit together.
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1 hour ago, blazemonger said:
While I can see the purpose for PVP combat in a game like DU, IMO it is not what NQ has allowed to evolve.
I agree with most of what OP says and I'd add that from that could follow conflicts can arise between player groups organically. Over territory, supply lanes, remote high value sites, strategic locations etc. Player groups would use diplomacy and negotiation to settle these and only if these fail and there are no options left the "military" option could be put in play. Pretty much, the game is designed to follow "normal" lines of how these things would go.
Yes, of course there would be "pirates" and small groups of bandits which is fine too, your average organisation would be able to counter that with some effort but never needed excessive or massive force.
That idea has all but abandoned because NQ is unable to design a game which accommodates this due to their very limited vision and their tendency to not be able to make tough calls and say no. There is a saying that if you try to please everyone, you please no one but if you design what you feel is right, then in general a good many people will follow and appreciate what you are doing.
NQ can't make up their mind about what kind of game DU should be and they do a bit of this, a bit of that and in the end do not finish anything. The core idea of the game was good and had NQ chosen a path to follow and stick to it, creating pillars in the game which all serve the game and not become a goal in and of itself, DU would be a different game now.
It's a shame as the potential and promise were always there, NQ just never really saw it or choose to ignore it. And the recent podcasts and half-baked attempts at PR and trying to justify pushing a massive part of what was pitched as the base game (well) beyond "release" is not helping.
For this supply lines and "military force" as a last option if diplomacy fails means pvp needs to be everywhere. You understand that right? What you wrote literally advocates removing all safe zones but haven.
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35 minutes ago, Walter said:
The reason for it is simple Legion can field every day 30 ships for defense of the cores without sweat. And the adversaries of Legion are not able to do the same. No one likes to be sealclubed and the fight for Gamma was their one and only shot to be relevant again (Empire and co) So until a group is formed that can put togheter 50 players there is just no contest
Bad game design then. NQs fault. And 30 ships is INSANELY LOW. I was in a small lowsec alliance in eve, and we could field 150 for a timed fight.
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50 minutes ago, Catarix said:
no one is playing. game is stagnating. wipe is ahead. the is nothing to lose for now. lets try more PvP everywhere (except Haven and Sanctuary). lets try planetary PvP according space rules. lets try in now because after release it will be impossible to do global changes.
if this game is THE SPACE MMO ENTIRELY BUILT AND DRIVEN BY PLAYERS why I can't control my guns everywhere where I want to? if it's peaceful minecraft in space why here are weapon?
To answer your questions the Developers don't have experience, or at the very least those making the decisions. Some people believe the reason for lack of pvp around the game world and planets is because NQ knows the tech doesn't work, which was the heart of their sales pitch so for that to fail would be disastrous. Which has some merit as mostly all of beta has been ways to curtail players abilities to do things in the game world.
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1 hour ago, blazemonger said:
Let's try and stay fair here.. He said that while it has issue, on the occasions it works, it is really enjoyable and fun.
The one doing the "mental gymnastics" here to try and validate their opinion is really you..
People could go fight for alien cores right now and have that same fun experience, pretty much daily. But they don't. All that needs to be said really.
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21 minutes ago, Walter said:
Dual universe PvP has been always problematic due to many technical problems. When it works and players come out in masses it is great fun to have. Like in the Gamma Fight
We still talk about it how it was a great experience. People bashing PvP and dismissing it as bad for the most part did not put much effort in it to begin with.
I think to have atmo PvP is posible and I want it, but needs to be scaled down from Space pvp to deal with desync much.
I will not fight you on excel you need to hop in a ship with few guns to fight me.
That Gama fight was so great that no one does it again....hahahahah. Amazing mental gymnastics you people have to do to keep telling yourself how good DU pvp is. There is pvp every second in EvE for the last 18 years, but happens once every 6 months in DU. Such a great experience that you do it once since Athena then never again. Amazing.
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There is only 1 way to save the player driven part, but NQ doesn't have the balls to do it. First you remove warp. 2nd you remove all bots. 3rd you remove 4 planets (12 is too many). With the remaining 8 planets you reorganize them so 3 starter alioth/madis/thades are around 30-40min travel at 30k baseline. Then take 4 other planets that are around 1.5 hour distance on average. Then make 1 distant planet like 2.5 hours away. Now move alien cores appropriately. Redo the ores that are on planets. Alioth/madis/thades only have T1 and T2. The 4 intermediate planets will have 2 T3 ores each, + some T1. T4 and T5 will be asteroid mining. Now you have to actually move shit around, actually fly your ship, but most flights will be in acceptable travel times. 1 org can't dominate the solar system with only 50 pilots. Force projection is solved. Logistics matter. It's quite simple but NQ doesn't know how to make an open world pvp game.
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52 minutes ago, Zarcain said:
Why not copy RPG talent tree system for industry?
Make most things tiered 0-5. You get X amount of points to spend on industry.
Tier 0 is no points, just cost of schematics. Tier 1-5 you need to spend point. Specialization starts at Tier 3.
You can use all your points and be a jack of all trades and take Tier 1 and Tier 2. As soon as you spend Y amount of points in Tier 1 or 2 all other tiers are greyed out and all further points can only be spent in Tier 1 and 2 with enough points to get everything, you are now a jack of all trades up to Tier 2. Leave some item in Tier 0-2 that only jacks of all trades can get.
Or
Plan your specialization and be, for example, an engine specialist. You have to put your points into Tier 1 and 2 engines to unlock Tier 3 engines and as soon as you pick Tier 3 engines all other parts of the tree are greyed out. You can only move up the engine talent tree to Tier 4 and Tier 5 with enough points for everything.
You equalize the points so that all the points needed to fill Tier 1 and 2 is the same as specializing to Tier 5 of one branch of the tree.
You still have to buy schematics, just not so expensive for Tier 0 - 1. Tier 2 is where it where the cost becomes impactful, time consuming, and require travel. The cost of a solo player to specialize up to Tier 5 should be a grueling, mind numbing, dangerous experience.
The cost of materials for Tier 3-5 should be outrageous so new players wont just skip over Tier 1 and 2.
Corporations will need several people to make higher Tier items, and solo players can play without corporations. But they would need each other.
I would go even further, and not allowing jack of all trades to be part of corporations. Any cooperation would be just that, cooperation.
They are done and this last patch was the last one before release. What you see now is what is gonna go to "release". They have stated that as such, so don't waste your time thinking they are gonna read your post or one's like that and be like "wow what a good idea we should start development on that".
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15 minutes ago, Pleione said:
My large core space station "JITA Trading Center", was two days away from getting the last component needed for a warp beacon prior to 0.23. With the beacon, it would have been the first space based trading center, a mere 5km inside of safe space, between a fairly short 400-580km of Jago, Lacobus, Sinnen, and Symeon - and 114-355km of Aloth, Madis, Thades, Talema, and Sicari. It already had supplies of all three fuels for sale, warp cells, and misc other items.
I'd say that would have had purpose, and given that NQ just announced their own (so much for a player made infrastructure), not a bad idea. Hardly "no purpose/function", which I find insulting to be assumed.
It's still there, dead in space now:
::pos{0,0,18639536.3581,-6229405.6982,10517615.3317}
Post 0.23, the schematic needed originally cost 840,000,000 quanta, and functionally stopped my efforts (and game play). We have about 50M quanta between the team that helped build it.
Ok so even if yours did, most don't. Not everyone in game is gonna make a trading outpost. So then that means 99.9% of people's static structures just hold their stuff in containers. Sure you can build it up to look nice or something but it serves no other purpose other than holding your assets or running your factory. Don't need walls or floors or ceilings. That's why I've always said the building and voxels are the worst part of this game.
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3 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:
Well, it's not like SC has achieved any kind of status or position in the market that could be "taken on".
Neither of these games will be taking on anyone or killing anything until they spend the money to finish them.
They aren't products yet, they're projects. It's baffling to me that they expect them to bring in money at all.
While SC definitely isn't finished and is even by CIG fully still in alpha, one thing is undeniable. SC is making money. Profit. And has 1000x times more exposure and interest and bigger community. Sure we could debate it sucks or whatever but that's not my point. SC has more people interested and has continued to get money, which is half a billion now for its 10 years. DU has been around 8 years and only generates about 3mil in kickstarter and the rest was 20-30mil from venture capitalists. On a good day there is 40 people watching DU on twitch. SC can be 3k -4k on a average day when certain steamers are on. If you had to chose one game which "might" be something someday, SC is definitely the better bet.
Where is the player driven content?
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Your [filtered]ing crazy. Just look at EvE everything exists in the pvp zone. But if your active you don't lose your shit while offline because you have timers to your station, or NPC stations in some areas. But player stations give bonuses so not use them. No one wants to lose their shit offline where is the fun in that. But losing your stuff while online? That's just good gameplay. And if you own a player stations and Don't log on for 1 month and have no friends or Corp mates to watch over it that's on you. It's why most player stations are run by groups to ease the burden. But its all about choices. EvE gives you choice DU does not. I'd h
Gladly Live full time in a pvp zone if there were more benefits then some stupid plasma and also I could Park my ships and not lose them while I'm at work. I've heard arguments like yours since day 1 of du kick starter and the are the dumbest of the dumb.