Nayropux
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Posts posted by Nayropux
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23 minutes ago, Xarius said:
Firstly, if you read my reply completely, you missed the point entirely or there is a failure of comprehension.
It was under the scenario that you wanted to mine every single ore, which many people with factories will need to do. For max efficiency, you need the surrounding tiles claimed also. If you are lucky enough to get tiles with all the ores you need, you could probably find them in as few as 7 planets.
I was not talking about Bulk mining a single tile, so your illustrative example has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
You state the intended use. I will correct that for you. "The way they want you to use them.".
Now on to Asteroids.
Yes, not going into PvP for Asteroids is definitely a choice. A choice that is being taken away by the ability to mine ALL the ores, not just the ores on ONE TILE, effectively.
So please, don't try to push my point into your narrative.I think you should look up the definition of intended.
Yes, spot mining single tiles is expensive, because that is not the intended use of autominers. If you want to do that, you are able to, but it is inefficient and comes as at a cost. It's like having the option of using a giant fuel guzzling L core to move a single container around; you can do it, but it isn't advised. You do not need to personally mine an ore to put it in your factory; you can buy the ore from others.
You've not explained why the choice to go to PvP asteroids is taken away or forced. The market gives you access to every ore in the game, and efficient use of autominers gives you ample quanta with which to purchase it.
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17 minutes ago, Xarius said:
K, So - by your logic. Race to all the PvE Asteroids when they spawn. Don't worry about work, family, or other obligations. Sit ready, with DSAT in hand, scanning the universe and waiting for a node to pop up, so that you have a chance of getting ore before it's mined out. But if you can't do that, it's okay, because you can go back planet side and play aforementioned annoying mini-game in hopes that you squeeze out a tidbit more ore, which by the way, you'll need to sell most of it to keep up on the tile upkeep, since you are going to be needing so many claimed tiles. Now, that's not including the cost of the mining units, whatever that may be. Basics will likely be cheap, just like engines and other elements, but each level you go up you are investing more and more quanta to mine a slightly more expensive selling ore. But of course, you are going to need to buy more tiles. Let's say okay, it's viable to do. Let's go with your logic.
There are 20 different ores you can mine. So at minimum, you are going to need to have 20 mining units, just to mine a bit of each ore.
Which will require you, if you are lucky, to only have to mine on what, 7 different planets/moons with well thought out tiles and good ore values that cover everything you can get on that planet. Though most planets for a good ore value, you'd probably need a few different locations. But let's stick with 7 is a lucky number.
To get the max benefit for the mining unit on that tile, you'll need all the tiles around it. So 7 planets, 7 tiles per planet. Unless math fails me, that's 42 tiles. So 42 million a week just to mine every single ore in the game efficiently, with just 20 mining units digging out 1 kind of ore each at a rate of 100-150ish/l per hr if you are lucky. and have talents etc. Maybe a bit higher. We'll go on a optimistic median though end and say you are getting 150 l/hr. That's 3.6kl per day, per ore, or 25kl per ore, per week. I can literally mine 25kl of ore by flying out to a random tile, use my scanner, and spend 20-30 minutes mining. A weeks worth of auto-ore, in the time it would take to VR to all the different planets and play that god-awful mini-game, every two days, 20 times, to make sure I can pull the same amount of ore out of the ground, as if I were mining it by hand.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding - But how is this a change for the better, when ore prices are already sky-high while it's easy to mine to the ore in greater quantities then autominers will allow?
So we are back to the Asteroids, and praying that you happen to be on the right time that one of the maybe 20 safe zone asteroids spawn, and have time to make it to one before it is mined out.I don't think you understand how autominers are meant to be used, or the math involved. There is simply a ton of inaccurate information in this post. Here is a simplified, but illustrative, example: you claim 7 tiles in a clump on alioth, and fully mine them out with your allotment of autominers (400-500l average per tile on many planets, 7 tiles with 100l/auto miner, is 28-35 autominers, so near the cap of one account). Using the numbers from Gottchar's thread, you would mine ~150kL assorted ore a day, or ~1ML a week, with this setup. At current prices, even if you were only mining T1, this is close to 100M quanta a week, for 7M a week in taxes. This is not "selling all of it for upkeep", it's 7%. You can use the other 93% of pure profit to buy any other ore you desire off the market, or head to an asteroid when you have the time.
All of this for a few minutes a day doing the dumb minigame, which you can VR to. This does not require hopping around to every planet to do the minigame, nor does it cost 42M per week.
In your complaint about needed to be around all day on Saturday to race to PvE asteroids, you completely glossed over the fact that most PvP asteroids go completely undiscovered and unmined the entire week. These are available for you to mine at literally any time you desire. If you do not want to PvP that is fine, you can join up with a group who do. If you still do not want to take the risk, that is also fine, there is a giant safe zone to still have fun in, but giving up the greater rewards of PvP asteroids is a result of that choice.
- decom70 and Knight-Sevy
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The changes you propose will actively make the game worse. It shows you do not understand the need behind them.
Making the minimum efficiency 25% means that the optimal play is to not play the minigame at all, simply claim more tiles. The current limitations on calibration charges mean an account can support 36 autominers, which when combined with adjacency bonuses are best spread over a small group of 7 tiles. Putting a minimum efficiency floor means that an account can now use as many as it wants. This will result in entire sections of planets and moons being owned by the same person, who are using the 25% floor to pay for everything. This will additionally be exacerbated by your request for lower taxes. If the 25% floor can pay for the taxes of the tile, the whole system explodes. The entire game becomes a landgrab, and every tile will be claimed in short order.
As for adding more ore, that is simply not required. An account managing 36 autominers on a good set of tiles can net ~150kL of ore of various tiers per day. For some players who mine meganodes constantly that seems like very little, but for the majority of players who do not mine, this is 150kL more ore in the economy for each of them. Keep in mind that this can be maintained with only a 10m/day minigame, while you actively mine asteroids as well. This is not the only source of ore.
As for complaints about the majority of asteroids being in the pvp zone, you do have another option. NQ said they are adding more safe zone asteroids, so now you simply need to race to them when they spawn. Additionally, half the pvp asteroids on any given week go completely undiscovered, and those that are discovered rarely have anything below t4 mined out of them. There is plenty of ore on these asteroids for those who are organized, driven, and ready to take the risk for the greater reward.
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On 10/26/2021 at 10:11 PM, Knight-Sevy said:
This is already what we are doing.
We have built only 1 ship optimized.
Our entire fleet is made of this single optimized vessel with its shoebox-shaped design.My god this game is boring.
This is not an issue with cross section, but an issue of not enough limitations on ships. Things like power systems, cross section, etc force you to choose what goes on a ship. This promotes the creation of ships for specific roles instead of making a jack of all trades. Removing cross section does not result in more ship types. It results in the exact same ship with different meaningless skins wrapped over it. A game with 0 depth.
I am familiar with the SNS ship. I think it is fine for your needs, but I also completely disagree that it is truly optimized.
If you dislike only running one type of ship, you should be campaigning for more limitations on ships and ways to specialize. Removing cross section does the exact opposite of what you want; unless you only care about how ships look.
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12 minutes ago, tlcjwb said:
Well if they spent all that time scanning what's the problem?
They already got value from those scans by mining out meganodes and/or selling them. Getting to double dip is kinda bullshit, especially since you cannot contest territories and this offers a permanent advantage.
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Why are some territories in the safe zone better than others? If they're completely uncontestable, why would anyone new join the game if all the good tiles will be taken by players when the feature launches, and there is nothing they can do about it? This seems like a massive oversight.
At least with megas, once they were mined out your advantage was gone. Now you have megas that don't deplete and give you a permanent advantage? Seems like a pretty bad design to me, if you are trying to get new players into the game.
- SubotRobot and CoyoteNZ
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15 minutes ago, Daphne Jones said:
Completely agree!!! I wish I'd known we had quaternions. I use those all the time in Second Life scripting. Much better than Euler vectors even if harder to interpret visually. Please keep them. And document them better lol.
JC said a long time ago that we would eventually get access to orbital parameters, which I know the game engine has because you need them to draw the trajectory line. Will we get these? I'd rather not calculate them in Lua - we don't need more sources of lag.
Calculating the orbital parameters is very cheap. No reason to add them to the API really.
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The jitter/teleporting from docking two ships is because the physics is being ran on two different players computers, and the physics prediction in the game is either poor or non-existent. You only had a good experience because both ships were being simulated on your computer; try docking to a ship someone else is flying.
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They are aware of it. The root cause is related to AMD CPUs.
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18 hours ago, Kruzer said:
I actually agree with you about the theory. But, in the state of the current game I don't believe piracy has a place. Ironically, while this sounds anti-piracy, my argument is that 'piracy' needs an expanded role. In the current game 'piracy' is closer to murder hoboing or griefing. There it is completely binary there is no option to surrender or discuss terms. There is no option to disable and loot some cargo it's just about murder and a total loss for one side.
It's fairly common these days for the pirates to reach out to sell the ship back to the person they took it from, at a fraction of the cost the ship is worth. It's much more convenient then having to strip it down and deal with the individual components.
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8 minutes ago, Dimencia said:
At first glance, I'm not sure this solves the problem. Sure, clients can databind to a state, but the clients still have to be sent the data. It synchronizes the client's UI vs the client's game, but the client's game still has to get the HTML from the server, which is (supposedly) the problem
It only has to get the HTML from the server once, not once every frame. This is a huge difference.
- IvanGrozniy and SeM
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I'm going to keep this short, since I haven't played in 3 months:
Removing HTML is overkill. The UI rendering solution you use in game already supports dynamically updating HTML without having to rewrite the entire content. See data binding in: https://coherent-labs.com/Documentation/cpp-gt/df/dfb/_h_t_m_l_data_binding.html
If you're worried about performance, this will be more efficient than your new Lua solution. You should make use of the technology you have already licensed and use instead of reinventing the wheel. More advanced UIs could be generated with the use of JS on top of this.
- SeM, IvanGrozniy, SpaceBird and 4 others
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8 hours ago, Demlock said:
I may be a PVPer but I love creation and creativity. This is a breathtaking development and really I would be so pissed for all the people who've put all the time into this development thus far if a wipe took place.
THANKFULLY NQ TOOK HARDSTAND AGAINST A WIPE AND HAVE VOICED IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN...
How much free shit did Boo get in the flash sale?
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17 minutes ago, jdalto said:
This will never be a competitive game of who’s best it’ll always be multiple collectives working together and fighting other collectives once pvp becomes more enticing initial conflicts will be accelerated by all these orgs that have pumped up wallets and it’ll be rapidly burnt through if someone comes out on top others will band together to bring them down a peg . I honestly can’t see it being that huge an advantage for long
So to be clear, your argument is "I don't understand how this works, so there is no way it could be an advantage"? It would be much faster for both of us if you had just decided to not say anything.
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12 minutes ago, jdalto said:
Then surely some people within your org would have also gotten on the big blowout sale
I like to compete and win at games because I'm better at them, not because on January 21st 2021 some of my allies made 10s of billions in a 15 minute fuck up.
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1 minute ago, jdalto said:
Are you in one of the top orgs? Because unless you are no amount of wipes will put you in the same league to pvp and own territory when the pvp update rolls out
I'm in (at least when I was playing) New Genesis, which is one of the main orgs in the AC, one of the largest alliance in the game. Or maybe second largest now, lots of people have been quitting and Boo is getting pretty blobby as well.
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16 minutes ago, jdalto said:
Okay soo let’s say for some smarter individuals the exploited quanta is invested and profited from further, how are you negatively impacted by it this isn’t rust it’s a civ game if you didn’t know it happened you’d go on like before
One of the main reasons I played this game was for PvP, with the intention of competing in the future over territory and limited resources. If the people who I am competing against have money printers (that go brrrr), I'm at a huge, essentially insurmountable, disadvantage. For other players who are industrialists, they now have to compete on the market against people who got their schematics for free, and now don't need to factor the cost of the schematic into the price of the items they are selling.
Not everyone plays this game like Minecraft in space, never leaving their little corner of the world.
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11 minutes ago, jdalto said:
Damn when are people going to quit beating this dead horse. The wipe makes zero sense, the exploit is like winning the lottery the profits will dwindle away eventually not the end of the world , the economy doesn’t need a server wipe to correct it needs new mechanics introduced into the game to balance out they aren’t going to do a wipe
The profits will not "dwindle away". They will compound. People were quite literally given licenses to print money. This extra quanta will only compound over time and make the disparity worse, not better.
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2 hours ago, XKentX said:
Really ?
NQ: go mine for hours to get schematics
Players: mining for hours hoping to get schems that they want.
NQ: huh, you got to end game too fast, let's wipe....
Players: never again....
Not gonna happen.
NQ: go mine for hours to get schematics
Players: mining for hours hoping to get schems that they want.
NQ: ok, now here is the same schematics for 1% the cost, but only for some of you
Players: never again....
Fixed it for you.
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18 hours ago, Zeddrick said:
Warp beacons already have a purpose -- so the devs can hand out expensive schematics to a select few who just happen to log in at the right moment ...
Yep, another schematic is up for sale. Fun game.
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On 1/28/2021 at 10:58 AM, Aaron Cain said:
In that case there is only one other option, ignorance is bliss.
If they do not want to listen why even put energy in it.
Best to stop filling this useless forum or any bug report and just throw comments and bugs on twitter and fb.
Cya later all.
I've also unsubscribed all my accounts.
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5 minutes ago, Burble said:
Why not ask the guy with 112 to sell you one cheap? I'm pretty sure that is what he will be offering. Consider it black market.
Why sell them for 8m when you can sell them for 50% and still make a shit ton of free quanta?
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That depends on how much you can get per mission: I'm going to be optimistic and assume it's roughly as much money per hour as mining, which is doubtful already. If a player who started when beta launched (~5 months ago) spent all their money in the 15 minute window when everything was going for 1% of the cost, you would need to do 500 months, or ~42 years, of missions to catch up to them.
So that's the answer. 42 years. Guess it really was the answer to life, the universe, and everything.
Give us more ore & asteroids - less taxes! (Demeter Changes)
in General Discussions
Posted
Yes, that is my point. PvP is a core part of the game. You can choose to not do it, but by doing so you lose out on the benefits. Just like if I choose to not mine, set up industry, or build and sell ships, I lose out on those benefits.
The game is 100% playable without entering the PvP zone; in fact most of the content is in the safe zone. You have access to every ore and item through the market, and the ability to make enough quanta to purchase them. Will it be as fast? No, but it shouldn't be as fast. This post, and thread, is just another thinly veiled complaint about how you are unable to get the benefits of PvP without PvPing. That is working as intended, in my opinion.
As an aside, you should definitely look harder. There are nodes with hundreds of acanthine per hour on them.