Novean-61657
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Posts posted by Novean-61657
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14 hours ago, Novidian said:
Yeah, I’m gonna have to disagree here. “Do something else” should never be the solution when something becomes too burdensome, especially when it’s a result of a development decision. Blaming the players on any level is ridiculous.
That’s like someone rolling a character in a traditional MMO, and rather than balancing the class to be viable again, someone just says to just reroll another toon, instead. It’s not a solution, and it won’t fix itself.
Never mind the fact that people like myself have invested MILLIONS of TP into MU output and surface harvesting. The game literally introduces you into it during the tutorial, and nothing else. (As an aside, there should be bases with different types of start up emphasis, like industry). It would take weeks/months to get skills to a comparable level doing something else, and then you have all new start up costs associated with that.
Not everyone wants to get into industry, either. If everyone switched to roids, it’d be slim pickings at the rates they respawn. Imagine schematics became more expensive and you need twice the input mats for your BPs. (I use that as an example, because you could do all your industry on one tile, so even taxes wouldn’t be as much a burden) It’s all good, just do something else? Ah well, not viable.
Not giving NQ any fault for it is what flabbergasts me. They literally balanced things and introduced taxes in beta with market bots as the model. If it was the plan to remove them all along, it should have been done in beta so they could see the impact, examine margins, and make adjustments before launch. It is completely their fault, no one else’s.
Not saying bots should have been there at launch, mind you. But removing them without knowing the market consequences, and not having a plan to keep that “class/profession” viable was a mistake.
Also, yeah builders have HQ tiles. Not even the issue. Kind of odd though, that only miners have to pay taxes…
This is not a character class in an MMORPG, this is a set of skills that you (and I) choose to specialize in. I have four characters that have all the (Improved) Mining Unit Manager talents learned to level 5 (except Volume and Handling talents), one character has all the Mining Unit Manager Handling talents learned to level 5. And one character has all the harvesting talents to level 5. So I also have many, many millions of TP invested in those talents.
I totally agree that NQ F-upped the bot orders 'issue' after launch. NQ-Deckard is even caught on stream saying that the T1 ore NPC buy orders not refreshing was a bug. Which they never fixed and then did a 180. This is totally NQs operating procedure! And that is indeed shame on NQ.
What isn't 'shame on NQ' is that this happened months ago at this point and people are still automining and not catching on that this just is incredibly labor intensive vs actual profit. and that is 'shame on the player'. There is still a profit to be made, but you need good talents and a good infrastructure setup, both of which many of these players don't have.
If you want to compare this to a classic fantasy MMORPG, this is the equivalent of specializing in leather boots because they are the most profitable, then being surprised that every other player did the same and now there's so much leather boots on the market that you can't sell them for a decent price.
We're actually seeing that the T1 ore market is slowly correcting itself, after seeing a very low point during the holidays of 5-6 quanta per liter, some of the T1 ore is now sitting at around 10 quanta per liter. And I'm wondering if that will collapse again if it continues going up. But I suspect it will collapse again, because players suddenly see that in their particular case they can make a profit again and they jump on it again, thus outstripping demand again by a large margin...
During beta there was a period that if you wanted to manufacture using machines in your static construct, you had to pay taxes. #1 you only really needed that on one tile and that was easily made back. #2 many of us moved to Space Cores for manufacturing, no taxes in space... So that wasn't a really big issue either.
NQ's 'balance' in DU isn't great, I'll admit that without contest. BUT let's say in RL someone builds a perfectly balanced boat, but even that perfectly balanced boat can't contend with all the passengers moving all their stuff to one side, including themselves and jumping up and down on that side... This is what's happening with way too many players in DU. You can't fix stupid, nor can you 'balance' a game for it... Now, if automining is your passion and you get a kick out of the calibration minigame at 50 times/week/character, then glory to you! But don't complain about profitability either. If your about just profit, then you made a bad choice, just like many other players. And don't tell me that what NQ surprised you, you've been here since Alpha for crying out loud! You should know all about the untrustworthiness of NQ statements and their janky directions. Their beta was an alpha and their 'launch' is pretty much a beta... They even left the door open for another wipe!
My main, having learned all the automining talents to 5 (except volume and handling), all the harvesting talents to 5, having perfect T1 productivity talents, is now learning asteroid mining talents (I miss the ZEN of the classic mining). I don't see the automining talents as a waste, as I did profit from it at the start as it was then way more efficient to automine T1 ore yourself. And it might be useful again in the future, either T1 prices correct , T2+ tiles that are actually worthwhile show up on other (new) planets, or I move to another planet an couldn't be bothered with hauling T1 ore from Alioth M6...
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3 hours ago, CptLoRes said:
Auto mining is one of the two official ways to generate quanta in this game.
I also don't agree with that.
If you mean bringing quanta into the game, then this is no longer the case. Only missions and daily logins do that these days.
If you mean earn quanta, then you're disregarding ALL the other ways to earn quanta. And this is not an 'alternative' way to earn quanta, these are pretty much essential ways of earning quanta in any player driven (market) MMO!
The only way that I can see your point is earning quanta from scratch as a new player. And even then, harvesting (rocks) and mining (asteroids) are also options to get you into the other ways of making quanta.
As for it not being profitable enough. Don't blame DU/NQ for that, blame the other fools automining for 'profit'. When you have a player driven market, you get this kind of BS due to other player actions.
But don't worry, the folks doing the automining aren't the only ones screwing us all over, it's also the folks doing the missions, as that drastically increases the amount of quanta in the game and is what's currently pushing up the T1 ore prices...
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On 1/1/2023 at 12:09 AM, Pleione said:
Can't argue that point, but NQ has shown no indication they plan on reducing taxes in any way, shape, or form.
And they shouldn't! The tax is just a measurement on when automining is profitable (or not) and an exit of quanta from the economy. You have three HQ tiles per account and a starter moon tile per account. That should be more then enough for building stuff for most people.
The problem here is not NQ (in this case), it's all the people that are still automining when it's not profitable enough. "But I want to automine!" is not a good reason if you're complaining about viability... There are other ways of making quanta besides automining and running missions...
I stopped doing automining a while back, as it took way too much time vs. the rewards. I started loosing interest in DU due to the work involved and that resulted in even less rewards and eventually forcing me to run missions to pay for the taxes (as I was using the ore and not directly selling it). Eventually I completely broke down the mining operation. Since then I haven't done (auto)mining or mission running and my operation has become more profitable because of it!
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15 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:
indeed, hq tiles were also supposed to be for ever, not for 90 days after last paycheck.
To be honest, the HQ tiles are a relative 'new' addition and people assumed a LOT of stuff, including those tiles were safe for ever. But as far as I know, the issue became clear way before the HQ tiles were introduced, when they already stated that the starter moon tile wasn't for ever either (no pay, no dormant account), they were just unclear on how long they would keep it. That standpoint didn't change at NQ with the introduction of the HQ tiles. Unless you have a link to some NQ person stating differently?
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On 12/30/2022 at 6:41 PM, Pleione said:
Any development going forward should be focused at getting people to come back. If you can do that, almost by definition your going to make the existing base mostly happy.
I think that ship has sailed, while some might come back, most won't ever touch DU again. Too much 'bad blood' by changes and promises unkept. The wipe was a breaking point for many. The way NQ handles characters and possessions for folks with long lapsed accounts is also so horrible that it doesn't reward coming back at a later time and start from scratch (AGAIN!)...
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52 minutes ago, Novidian said:
you can run 12MUs small
But you can't generate 12 mining charges per day on a single account. ~7/day with max skills.
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I really appreciate your video's on the heat shields, I will experiment with those in the future!
Sorry about the skydock (for AGG), it's located ~7km from Alioth Market 6, it's now 2 L cores, but will shortly be 4 L cores. It sits at 1250m-1375m and is often in the clouds, which is cool and weird, but an absolute navigation hazard for those that don't know. That massive black skyscraper is one of my neighbors, I estimate it at 2x2x8 L cores and one of the reasons why I no longer feel guilty about making a skydock... 😉 I have not yet found any wrecks under, on or in the skydock...
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15 hours ago, Peregrin said:
I've built a gazebo.
Is that a Dread Gazebo or just your regular run of the mill gazebo? Or just don't feed it after midnight? 😉
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On 12/26/2022 at 12:17 PM, ZeroPainZeroGain said:
We will do the same on the next planets, we arent hoarders, we just love scanning : ) its like the rush you get from scratching a scratch card : )
Oh gawd! You are also DU addicts, just different DU addicts! 😉
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Question: Does NQ fix those lives and repair a ship if it is an issue due to the game being buggered? Even if it takes a long while. Build another ship, replace stuff on there and if DU flip-flops again and the game destroys your ship. Just fly the old one with cheap components until NQ completely fixes your most expensive ship...
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On 12/22/2022 at 3:27 PM, ZeroPainZeroGain said:
Our team was 10-12 Players with 18 Scanners each and scanned majority of the planet in around 12 hours.
Good information, but...
12x18x12x4=10,368 scans
12 people, 18 scanners, 12 hours, 4 scans per hour, assuming 100% efficiency.
Talemai has 52,922 tiles. The tiles on the moons is another ~7,500 tiles. Minus a few that aren't player accessible. That meant that in 12 hours you did (at best) 1 in 6 tiles scanned, which is insane in any world! 😉 But not the majority of the planet scanned. Or did you mean the majority of the T2+ tiles found?
@KezzleTo fully map the world and moons,, a 12 man team working at close to 100% efficiency would need to work weeks to get it done. That is pretty hardcore behavior imho... That they needed only 12 hours of hardcore activity to get most of the T2+ patches is what's rubbing folks the wrong way. But that's mostly by people that don't want to do that level of work, organization and/or brainpower...
Imagine how much quanta a dedicated team of 12 players would be able to gather doing organized missions effectively? Week in, week out...
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It's even weird behavior in statics. I can deploy Extended Basic Containers XXL closer together within one placement session then when I leave placement session and come back...
It's weird, it's frustrating, it still hasn't been fixed after years of development and it probably never will...
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2 hours ago, ColonkinYT said:
Not new undiscovered technologies (such as packaging of matter), but ignoring the basic science that exists now.
This is more and more like some kind of [filtered]ing fantasy with a damn shitty plot (more precisely, with its absence).No offense, but how much old sci-fi just completely ignored science as it was known then? And the line between sci-fi and fantasy has always been very blurred, even 'hard' sci-fi often ignored a lot of science in favor of story. And that's not a big issue imho. It all depends on suspension of disbelief and the consumers willingness to do that. But some things require a lot more suspension then others, the NQnian physics require a rewiring of reality... 😉
I honestly don't care much about the NQnian physics, as long as they stay internally consistent, but as NQ is running an eternal Alpha game, they keep changing stuff around, often quite drastically. And even then, due to it's buggy state, it's internal logic is not applied consistently... Is this a floor? Nope, not today? Must be something to do with the alignments of the moons and the butterflies being in heat....
- GraXXoR and aliensalmon
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1 hour ago, Wyndle said:
Does this risk creating an espionage scoreboard?
It's more like making a list of the 'best', hiring them, then sicking them on the competition... Or have I been playing EVE too long? 😉
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Do you think Dual Universe is good sci-fi?
Hell no! It's a pure and bland sandbox, it has the potential for us to tell good stories. But the DU setting itself is virtually not existent, at the start of beta there was some hint of something more during events, but that was quickly squashed when the previous CEO left...
DU is the equivalent of mom getting a big box of LEGO, yelling "VROOM! This is a spaceship!" turning the box over in the middle of the living room. "You just crashed on a new planet, you need to rebuild!"... "I'll check back on you when you're 18 and I can kick you out of the house."... 😉
- Captain Hills, Kezzle, Mordgier and 3 others
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7 hours ago, Bazzy_505 said:
I personally work on 11700KF based pc, which is considered quite a powerhog, and yet typical package power on that hovers around 30W-40W and entire system typically draws little short 130W, and that already with my cintiq factored in. So you shouldn't really belive all the horrow stories you read on internet
An 11700KF is ~25% more powerful then my 4800u, that 40W is almost max powerdraw of the whole system (ex. monitors). With VMs running, powerdraw is 10-20W for the whole system... And on the CPU side it's more then powerful enough to run a whole bunch of VMs for a whole complete virtual environment. So I'm not looking at horror stories on the internet, I look at different tests running different types of loads and compare them to my own results... Without government subsidies my powercost is already €0,86/kWh, at ~100hrs/week, that's almost €500/year difference in power cost between your pc and mine, and that's for just a single PC... With subsidies it's still €250/year/pc, there is a ceiling on those subsidies per household though, so better stay below that...
This is also why I stopped doing all those missions, it's additional PC running at close max powerdraw for 12+ hours/day for a bit of quanta...
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3 hours ago, Pleione said:
Blanket rejection is not particularly informative, nor does it follow the request of "Constructive comments only please".
I understand that your attempt to 'fix' things comes from a good place, but you're ideas are not unique or are you the first amateur games designer on these forums attempting to 'fix' DU. Your idea hasn't been the best or the worst. The common thread with all the suggestions here and elsewhere is that NQ doesn't use them.
Now, I just don't like the mechanics you and 'the other guy' suggested. They don't seem fun, even less so then the current system. Now I can post a bunch of BS around the fact I don't like it, I might even dig deep and explain why I don't like it (beyond it doesn't seem fun). But it has zero value, your opinion and my opinion have less then zero impact on the issue. With other games you sometimes get someone from the devs go like, "Ohhh!!! I like that!", even if that would happen here, we would never see it. But it doesn't happen. And what NQ employees say and what eventually happens are often two completely different things. But one thing stays the same, none of the suggestions here are ever used, no matter the quality.
At least you didn't claim to have a simple solution that would take no time at all to implement... 😉
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2 hours ago, Bazzy_505 said:
ms has dropped support for haswell lga2011 platform almost 2 years ago, nvidia dropped driver support of 970 for almost about the same time. You can expect these issue mount up with increasing number of apss going forward.
as for raw CPU performace even the bottom of the barel 12400F is 50% faster at half the power; selling for around 140 USD these days.
the oldest nvidia gpu still in production, 2060 Super is twice as powerful as 970 and can be bought new for under 200 USD even today.
DDR4 B660 motherboards go as low 90 USD in retail
unlike 2 years prior, it's a actually a very good time to upgrade right now, retail prices are at rock bottom, which is rare moment in time amongst steeply rising cost per waffer for leading edge production for upcomming hardware regardless of vendor.
MS has not dropped support for the 5000 series on W10 (EOL Oct 14, 2025), nor has Nvidia dropped driver support for the 900 series of video cards. W11 indeed has no official support for this cpu.
The issue is not money. The issue is power consumption. I run two AMD 4800U (8c/16t, 64GB RAM, 2TB+4TB SSD) with integrated graphics (8GB assigned), passively cooled they are completely silent, those are also at least twice as powerful CPU wise and not that far behind in GPU power as you might think of integrated graphics. They only use a small amount of power compared to the old machine and tiny amounts of power compared to more modern stuff. I work from home and it's often at least 50 hrs a week, but probably more in the 80-120 hrs a week that my workstation is on. The amount of power it uses is wasteful and with the current pricing of power around here, just not a good idea. It's also not fun running during the summer without airco. The a fore mentioned 4800U machines will work as my main machines in the future and I'll be PC gaming on my Steam Deck, anything it can't handle I'll run via a cloud service (Geforce Now for now)... I'm just working through 10TB of stuff on the old machine and get it well sorted on the NAS, I'm also working on changing my workflow, etc. (moving over takes some time)
Those 4800U will actually run DU at lowest settings (only draws 40W). During beta they did a TON of mission running. Nothing too complex or I will have issues.
The newer generations of desktop CPUs and GPUs use way too much power and generate way too much heat. Especially with the hot summers this is going to force me use an airco. For what? A couple of games that refuse to optimize? There's a ton of good and fun games I can play on a Steam Deck. And with €100-€200/year I can run something like DU on a cloud service. I can run for years on the cloud for the cost of a new machine, especially when you add power costs...
What I find strange is that everything seems to run fine in DU in somewhat lower settings on my pc, but this basic feature (this is a floor) doesn't often seem to work ok. If stuff like this continues at a certain point DU is no longer viable as a game/experience, beyond it's already massive shortcomings.
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1 hour ago, blundertwink said:
NQ needs to step back and think about how to make their game fun; the state of the economy really doesn't matter if there's nothing fun to do with it.
They threw out fun half way through beta, with the rest of the bathwater...
Sometimes I wonder if NQ is fine with DU not being fun, but just being an addiction...
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5 hours ago, Bazzy_505 said:
this is a client side issue related to client performance on your end. Collision detection is entirely client side, Try upgrading your potato
My 8 year old potato is running perfectly fine thank you very much!
i7-5820k (6 core machine) running a GTX970
Will be running shortly to Geforce Now as I'm skipping the current PC/GPU powertrip (for now)...
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8 hours ago, CptLoRes said:
The kind of investment talked about here just to find some T2 tiles is ludicrous, and it is no wonder why the game is unable to retain players.
And finding actual T2 tiles is just not worth it, on the Discord DU Action House, a Natron flower (7 tiles), sold for 25 million quanta.
With a max skills you can make a little profit off it. Unless you take into account the risk and/or cost of flying back to Alioth Market 6 to get some decent quanta for it...
There's a reason why since 1.2 release the DU AH has had a ton of T2 and even T3 flowers and patches on it. The folks doing the actual finding are not interested anymore in T2/T3... My assumption is that it is either not worth their time anymore and/or they already have enough of it on Alioth or any of the other safe planets/moons...
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3 hours ago, Shredder said:
Try making the voxel floors 2 blocks thick
That is what I meant by "double layer voxel floors"...
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15 minutes ago, Pleione said:
...that the algo has been leaked allowing those that know it the knowledge of where to go.
Or, what I'm suspecting more, someone did the math on the planets already present and and used that on the new planets... There's also a certain symmetry on Talemai on the patches claimed those first 24 hours...
Whats coming next now that 1.2 has been delivered?
in General Discussions
Posted
It's now the 3rd of January, 90 days after launch is in the middle of the holiday for NQ, so I don't think they would have queued that with very few people around to fix things if it goes belly up... The folks fastest and could claim directly around the marketplaces, having either still a running subscription or 2 weeks for free for returning. So we might see some holes on Haven later this month.
But I would also not put it past NQ to leave Haven alone for now, as every tile there indicates a player (account). Removing most would not be a good move as that would show us more info about player retention then they would be willing to give out...