Novean-61657

And I'm thinking that having a serious discussion about a possible 2 years from now is foolish when the next couple of months are going to make or break the game/company. The game when it launched in beta isn't the same game as it is now, and that was a year and a half ago. I expect big changes/additions post release, not right away, but over the next two years. Discussing the game when we don't know how it will look in 2 years is an exercise in futility. I expect power management to be added, changes to asteroids, new things to build and build for, some form of planetary conflict on the outer planets, XL cores, etc. With such changes I can list ten things from the top of my head, how that will change the current systems drastically. As for the Schematics discussion, there was already significant infrastructure and quanta in place when things changed. This will not be the case at the moment, that will make things incredibly hard, maybe hard enough that people won't want to play DU or quickly stop playing DU after a month or so... I did some quick calculations with and without Schematics when starting from zero and you need a ton of quanta quickly, due to Schematics. With the assumption of having to do missions that was quite a bit of missioning to do right of the bat, with a high probability of having massive T1 NPC buy orders, that might be hugely mitigated by selling ores to NPCs...

It's not that NQ throttled back the resources, just so many people logging in to claim their 2FA loot! 😉

2FA is very good! Just enabled it for all four of my accounts. I was afraid that I would have to enter it every time I log into the client. But after some testing, it works wonderfully, I have the option to remember 2FA on the client for 90 days. I even wondered what happened if I switched accounts, just ask for 2FA code if your account hasn't logged in yet, otherwise it remembers the already filled in 2FA (token) for 90 days. I am wondering: How this works on GeforceNow. Is that token information stored in your personal account, not stored at all, or accessible to all? What happens if you turn off 2FA? What happens if you turn on 2FA again (rewarded again)? I'm not testing it though. Issues found: When you log on the first time with 2FA enabled, in some cases it does not show the talent points, even though there's a popup that tells you you're rewarded with them. Workaround: logoff and logon again. Request: Can you please add a list of accounts in the clients that have stored logon information. When switching characters I have to copy paste userid/password from a password database (as I use very complex passwords I would never ever remember!)... Might turn off some people from buying more account subscriptions... Implementation very good!

On one hand it's a great time to start DU, because you can absolutely mess around without much consequences as we'll probably have a full wipe (with the possible exceptions of talents and BPs). That is a perfect environment to get to know the game and the systems. The negative is that everything you make now, you loose (except possibly BPs). I suspect that those that get to figure out now how the game works will have a huge advantage over those that don't. Might be even an advantage over those that started Beta 1.5 years ago, as starting was a long time ago and in a very different environment...

Ok... Goodbye! Can I have your stuff? 😉

It's still in, no more then three atmo engines, no space engines, no containers. Aim at craft/ship press ALT+B or or right click, select Construct and then select Construct Compactification. The amount of crashes I am involved with when I fly a new ship is... The reason why I don't have a drivers license in RL! 😉 You can load your own scripts for flight interfaces and a bit of auto pilot, I would advise you look at this way later: https://github.com/Archaegeo/Archaegeo-Orbital-Hud There are videos on YT on how to install that.

The missions are pickup at location X and drop off at location Y. As for building ships, yes might be a bit soonish if you spent the first week building factories. Did you pick up the free ship from the tutorial? If so, look at it in buildmode and how things are connected (what to what). Build something similar, but bigger with more engines. Do some (careful test flying).

Question: Has anyone made a video showing the entire new FTUE experience? If so, I would appreciate a link. Thanks! I'm also curious about the stuff you get from the new FTUE, it used to be some random voxels, a simple speeder and a Sancturary Territory Unit. Has any of this changed, if so, how?

Well... At the start at beta surface ore respawned, we've been told that it was a bug, they might have fixed that with one of the latest patches... At one of the starter markets you can transport for free to Alioth and teleport to one of the central Alioth markets. In those Aphelia tiles, you can't claim, there's probably quite a lot of ore to mine still (might have to move a bit from the market though, purple tiles are good, red are not). Have you already saturated your tile with Small Miners (you can build from your backpack)? Do you calibrate regularly? Every calibration generates a bunch of T1 ores. I would suggest that you do not sell ore for quanta, do missions instead (there's one on Alioth that nets you 180.000 quanta per run). You can build an atmo ship from T1 parts/ores (mostly from the backpack). Use XS containers from the backpack and buy a container Hub from Alioth market 6 @9000 quanta to link the containers together (get there via the free shuttle service). Question: Is all ore gone or only very specific ore you're looking for? At the beginning of beta batches respawned when you mined all ore types from a certain area... You might want to prioritize a Territory Claim Unit to build or buy and claim a tile on Alioth in a somewhat unclaimed area... Claim one tile, collect in the rest. Don't forget to mark it as one of you're Headquarter tiles... You might have to pay taxes to mine on it though... If you want to do it all yourself, you can refund the million quanta, otherwise have fun!

I was at a time when I was picking up the ores from the autominer minigame. But when I tested one of the small autominers on Sanctuary last weekend, it just spawned right below the miner. So very little reason, unless you're backpack mining and need to go back to your storage... But being able to fly at 1050km/h is very nice! 😉

I'm currently seeing 200.000.000 T1 orders in every market (on every planet/moon) @25 quanta/L. The question becomes, if someone manages to completely a 200 million liter ore orders, will it be renewed (with each patch)? While I would prefer absolutely no NPC buy orders, just limiting it to T1 does make it far better then with Beta start... Just limiting it to starter planets doesn't matter, people would just transport it to those starter moons from Alioth (or other safe zone planets). Depending on how you can play, how often and when, missioning would still be more profitable then automining T1 and selling to bots. Especially for people playing with a single account.

@SlaySomething I'm wondering two things: #1 How long have you been playing DU; #2 Have you actually tried (at scale) to do what you're actually complaining about? What you mine isn't actually related to what you can afford to buy or build, but what territory you have claimed. That is no different from the previous version of mining in DU. People that are mining the higher tier of ores are on the outer planets and are either lucky or have spend an enormous amount of time/effort scanning a TON of tiles... Lucky or a LOT of work seems imho a good starting point. And with eventual planetary warfare, especially on outer planets, that gives people motivation to conquer or defend swatches of land. Then the work of Automining. A.) A LOT of scanning tiles for the resources you want at the levels you want. B.) Setting up mining stations on every tile. You can do that from Blueprint, but previously you couldn't set that up all that well, so you had to do it by hand. Or spent more time every time you moved from mining station to mining station. Planning and building your infrastructure takes up a lot of time and resources. C.) Skills, you need a LOT of talent points to do this optimally, takes time. Means you can't train other skills. D.) Minigame... Ugh! The minigame... Boring as F! But you really want to do it (but you can skip it), because it's the difference between 80% calibration (if you do the minigame perfectly) or 65% calibration and no dropped ore (skipping the game). Of course this assumes max skills (including handling skills on the AM). The added time of playing the minigame perfectly (which you can get pretty reliably when you've done it a LOT) is more then compensated by having to do the calibration less often, and less travel time. E.) Scale... When you do 200 mining units (4 characters worth with max skills), you're doing millions of ore per week, but that means many, many hours per week spending on travel between mining units and playing the mini game. Not to mention, you have to move the ore around, that is not insignificant with millions of ore per week... This gets boring as hell quickly, so unless you have very specific goals set for yourself, I'm not seeing this happening at a large scale without people getting bored out of their minds quickly... After spending a huge amount of time on my Natron AM mining operation (25 million ore collected in a couple of months), I spend even more time on dismantling that operation because I saw no reason to continue and I am attached to my sanity! None of that ore ended up on the market, it's all for fuel in a bunch of personal fuel depots all over the (outer) planets. Doing missions was far more profitable, with the changes to missions, that might change, but it takes a lot less active time and still has the potential to earn more (if you run multiple PCs. Currently the market is borked due to the wipe announcement, but pre-wipe-announcement you could regularly sell Fuel significantly decently over the raw ore prices (assuming perfect refining/fuel talents). The Schematic costs are pretty insignificant, you could make some pretty quanta buying ores, making fuel and selling it. The talent requirements for that are relatively insignificant compared to many other products that were being made with virtually no profit margin... Imho that completely shoots out of the water your idea of the lack of Schematics destroying the market making products. What it does now, doesn't matter, because after wipe/launch it's all different. Assumptions: ore distribution reset; automining stays the same, wipe of everything except talentpoints, no more schematics, no NPC buy/sell orders. No one will have the quanta to buy or ore to build much of anything, You'll start with a Basic Mining Unit S on your starter moon, backpack building, setting up industry. No one will have product to sell, no one will have quanta to buy much of anything, even if things are made available, prices will be unreasonably high. People will be using their ore themselves, just as when we started in beta. Scaling upto a level they'll be comfortable with... Scanning tiles en-mass will take a while, as the scanning units will be difficult, also the space ships that will carry them, etc. The territory units are also not cheap ore wise, so don't expect folks to have 50 units available (per character) for mass AM. What's available on the starter moons and Alioth is extremely limited, getting to the outerplanets isn't going to be fast or easy as warpdrives and cells will be unavailable and 'expensive' to make. Quanta will be very limited, until certain people will have their missioning operations running again... Getting to the current situation of mass ore and quanta available has taken a year and a half of beta. A third+ was spend without Schematics... Imho the reason why pre 0.23 very little was sold at the market was because of the NPC buy orders on components that where VERY profitable, people would rather build and sell for NPC orders then for other players... I do not mind the current Schematics system, but restarting from scratch and then having to buy Schematics with quanta now being so rare, is going to be an absolute pain! I already started working out some scenario's, the one with Schematics is seriously limited by the amount of quanta i can acquire quickly. But it still explodes outward eventually, but constantly limited by the amount of quanta you can generate. Imho it's gating content, not only by what you can build, but also your flexibility in the game, limiting what you can actually do in game. While that might sound good to some, it really isn't. When you're bored with one 'gameloop' you can't really access another, with the limited amount of 'gameloops' available in DU, especially after wipe/launch, you do not want people quitting due to being bored. I do expect that ore will initially be very expensive, but most people won't be able to afford it. They might startup a massive automining operation, that would take a lot of time/resources they do not start with. They'll try that until it becomes less profitable or the get bored (or failed their sanity check)... Then we still have the Asteroid Mining, I think it will take a while before someone can build an actual mining ship with the proper scanner. Heading out to pvp space would imho be doable, as very few actual guns will be build... Some people will be able to make huge rare ore stocks that way. Safe space asteroids will be a good secondary option and I suspect that when people can reach them, they'll do so asap and run those besides automining/missioning, as you're not really capped by limitations of automining (tiles/autominers/scanners)... I do would love to see some changes/love to Asteroid seeding: During the whole week and more spawns if the asteroids are mined out (per area safe vs pvp space)... If there are still NPC buy orders like with Beta, gameplay will probably center around that until all those orders have been filled (and do not respawn)...

I've been stuck with my head in the sand for a year and a half, the 14th of April NQ unstuck my head and I joined many in Limbo... I stopped pretty much any building activity (as it will all most likely go POOF!). No reason to get more ore, quanta, or Schematics. As Schematics will probably go the way of the Dodo, ore, quanta, and physical assets will also most likely go POOF! I did buy a ton of BPCs, maybe we'll be allowed to keep those. Distributed my quanta across my characters and started moving resources to Sanctuary (for if for some reason we get to keep that). Then I just logged off... I sometimes logged back in to check something, mostly on stuff that came up in discussions here in the forum. It's been two weeks and I'm starting to get less (h)angry and more like "Get it over with!", there are still things where I will say "NQ, you went too far! I quit!", but we'll see when that actually happens. Meanwhile I've been thinking how to restart after wipe, I've got some ideas, but I need to make lists with numbers attached. I'm also thinking about how all the current changes will affect a restart, now after the patch I can actually start with testing some designs that I could use after the restart. Because #1 we are currently using way complicated/expensive ships that have 1.5 years of industry behind them, that are unrealistic just after the restart, #2 all the damned changes make current designs either unworkable or not efficient enough. I was actually surprised that we got the patch before the restart! I've also been stuck in 'my ways' in DU, I'm used to low G planets, space elevators, fully tested routes with the same cargo and weight. So when I took out an Inquisitor (by Loaded) a while back and just stuffed it full of cargo, I had a hell of a time actually lifting off a 1G planet (I suck at manual flying and it was overweight!). I actually learned stuff! After kicking out some cargo during flight I was eventually able to get out of Atmo. Landing on Sanctuary was interesting to say the least, but wasn't as bad as I have (crashed) in the past... It was an actual exciting experience, something I haven't had in a long time in DU... Atleast it wasn't shot from under me by pirates... This time... 😉 Yesterday I wanted to fly and see some of the new stuff (and mostly how badly the new patch borked existing ships). The SAGA HUD was borked, couldn't take off at all. I haven't actually been installing LUA in any of my ships, I've been buying other people's designs for a long while now, and they installed it all (DRM). So now I didn't want to disturb Apocalix (M480s), just jumped in (removed seat and placed it again without DRM) and proceeded to install SAGA HUD (far easier and user friendly experience then I expected). Again, learned a lot! But what I already had realized is that the M480s isn't exactly a great fit for the new mission system + the new max speed. With no cargo it reaches 28k, imho it won't matter much with the largest missioning packages, but I expect I can get some gains with the next largest packages... So new designs for restart I need to make (cheap in ores, T1): backpack rocket Atmo hauler/mission runner Atmo to space hauler Space hauler that can get as close to max speed as possible with a mission load Besides BPOs (if we can take them with us) I'll also need to make screenshots, parts list and notes to rebuild in manually. I'll be using the mantra: Pretty is optional, function over form, good ugly ain't bad! So... What have you been doing while being stuck in Limbo? Have you gotten over being (h)angry and gotten some motivation back to do something in DU? Even if it's a bit outside your usual comfort zone? What would you like to try?

I blame Erstschlag and Markee Dragon to get me hooked! 😉 I blame Shamsie keeping me hooked! 😜 (YouTube and Twitch streamers)

But do you want to continue for that 0,1% chance that you can keep (some) of it?

I generally do a lot of Humble Bundles, Humble Monthly, Humble Store, Steam Sales, etc. I generally don't buy at full price, with some exceptions. Bought Dune: Spice War for full price -20% due to Humble Monthly + Humble Store, the same thing with Warhammer: Total War III...

Did a bit of flying... That moving ring on the shield annoys me... The warping... Could someone please get the Dev in charge of the warp effect of LSD! WTF were you thinking!?!? I'm do not have Photosensitive epilepsy, but it triggers something panicky that isn't a pleasant experience... I like the stars and the space sky! Haven looks UGLY in map mode! The space brake and space engine effects are over done, the first more then the second... Is it me or does dark seem more dark? Or are my eyes still adjusting from the warp effect?

That looks pretty cute as a fan project! That feels disgustingly dishonest as a DU promotional video...

Why does this matter? People that think that IF they wipe is still a possibility should get a reality check! It's when they wipe... And the question will be, how bad. I believe we getting to keep our territory, ore or quanta is extremely unlikely. I disassembled my four man mining op months ago.

No. They need to make up their mind about wipe/launch and do that asap. I can live with an iffy server, we've done that through most of the beta. I cannot hang in Limbo for the next few months, because I'm not actually playing until wipe/launch. The further that date is into the future the less I'll be motivated to return to DU (and I'm not the only one). Not to mention my subscription is going POOF!(tm) by the month...

Let's compare to EVE Online (again), there the traveling of huge distances is also risky, especially on AP. Also very boring imho when going the long (save) way around. That game is still around after 19 years... Although everyone has been saying the same thing during those same 19 years "EVE is dying!", the same thing they've been saying about DU. Imho the slowboat mechanic is core to DU. Just forcing you to do that with the missioning system might result in boring gameplay afk, but it is imho also a choice to do it or not. But part of the problem is that it's one of the few large quanta sinks available in the game, besides the NPC buyorders (which everyone hates)...

Only after wipe/launch...

They require energy, energy can be easily provided via solarpower or fission/fusion power. I wouldn't mind adding in that gameplay loop, but fuel for anything else besides engines would be foolish imho. NQ was talking about a power mechanic, but yeah...

Erm... You can do single account missioning perfectly ok. A 5-10M quanta payout 3-4 times per day, 4+ days per week is still very nice quanta (close to 100M), especially after wipe/launch. But flying for hours between planets isn't a good time in my book (wasn't good before, isn't now). I enjoy the puzzle, optimizing, setting up the infra, etc. But missioning itself is grindy as all F! If you liked it before, I see no reason why you wouldn't enjoy it now... You just need to adept a little bit...

With the new weight limits, you might want to outrun them? If your ship is smaller/lighter... Space only ships can be lighter and thus faster then hybrid ships. It would be nice if interfering terrain and structures would make any direct fire weapons (except missiles) miss automatically, missiles would have a big penalty for indirect fire. I want things like electronic counter measures, configurations of ships/elements that make targeting the ship more difficult, etc. A cloaking system. etc. What I do NOT want is more bloody mini games! NQ is not good at making mini games, the mining mini game is a good example of that. Initially it's a pain, after a few hundred times it becomes second nature to some. What initially is a crapshoot becomes something you can do without thinking and succeed (near) perfectly most of the time. It eventually is nothing more then a grindy timesink! Not fun at all and virtually no hindrance to those that do it very often and have a bit of talent/feeling for it... Combat feels more like you're playing a 90s MUD instead of something 'exciting'. EVE has made it interesting, a puzzle with multiple solutions to the same problem with actual counters, etc.