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Cergorach

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Everything posted by Cergorach

  1. The only real thing of substance here is the BP preview, that is SO HUGE! I really hop it'll work well. The rest I might like or I might not (in certain situations), but imho it doesn't change game play... @CptLoResA very persistent algae that showed up after one of the patches our AI implemented... But I suspect it's a mutated foot fungus that one of our fellow settlers introduced...
  2. #1 If you talking about the start of beta, ores didn't run out anyway. Surface ore kept respawning, this might have been a bug. #2 For anything other then the more rare ores, finite resources didn't matter, there was just so much of it. Although not always as easily mined as meganodes... #3 The game wasn't ready for finite resources (besides the permanent storage requirements for tunnels of all the mined out tiles), it would mean that if/when resources run out in the actual game, there wasn't a mechanic in place to expand to other resources. Like moving to another system, exploration, warpgate building , etc. So when the resources are gone, the game dies or the resources need to be reset... The game mechanics also just don't support finite resources in the core mechanics. Stuff can disappear, either through destruction, deletion or consumption. We also have no way to develop alternatives, like water based space fuels, etc. Also keep in mind that the amount of resources per player is relatively limited compared to anything close to the real world. A normal human consumes a tiny amount of resources, a DU player consumes enormous amounts of resources. If every human on the planet would own a couple of Mammoth Tanker, it would be a different discussion... There have been so many compromises with any form of reality to make a game (instead of a very boring simulation) that the old way of finite resources would be unsustainable. That doesn't mean the current system is all that great either, but there is more room for improvement and probably easier implementation. I do miss the ZEN of planetary mining!
  3. If we're using standard definitions for development cycles, they've redefined the initial release state and all the other 'promised' features will be added in expansions down the road... If you look at it from that pov, it might be a 'full release'...
  4. Jim! I'm a text render engineer dammit! Not a game designer! Do you want your house painter fixing your car? Do you want (in this case) the programmer designing your game loop? I personally think that is a bad idea, I think the reason we're in this mess is because too many people that aren't game designers designed the game. On the other hand, we wouldn't have DU in the first place if it weren't for those same people... Too many people on these forums fashion themselves (undiscovered) game designer talent, often their designs or 'fixes' have the depth of a pool of rainwater. Game designer is an actual job, requiring experience and insights! Some get lucky and fall into it due to innate talent, but there are actual game designer courses (that are actually quite interesting), some even part of Bachelor programs. I think that expecting more game play loops before, during or just after launch (beyond what's already been announced) highly unrealistic. To be honest, I expect that if DU doesn't achieve their expected post launch income numbers, DU might not reach the end of the year before they pull the plug permanently...
  5. I don't disagree with your take on that it's some form of p2w. How do you feel about me taking a week of work to play DU, so I'm 'paying' a weeks salary to play more DU and get an advantage. Now I totally see people actually arguing that when you don't get something, you don't pay for it... So let me take the correct approach: As an employee I would get a bonus in money that I could get payed out to my bank account or buy additional vacation days with (this is quite common here). If I buy those vacation days, and use them to play more DU, is that p2w? Now also think about the situation where multi account isn't allowed, that would impact the people who care about what NQ says is allowed and what is not. But the people that don't care about that, would totally have a huge advantage then. Just like what is now happening in pvp, people who cheat have a huge advantage over those that can't. But imho this discussion is totally MOOT, because during the KS it was already apparent that NQ was going for a p2w model, with DAC. Even if multi account isn't allowed, people still can buy DAC and sell it for ingame stuff. That is direct p2w! In a game like EVE Online that really doesn't matter. Does it matter in DU though?
  6. Several PCs isn't a stretch in this day and age and free services provided by GeforceNow allow you to run two clients on a single PC. You might even be able to run several GeforceNow clients on a single machine with VMs... I agree that a LOT of the stuff I mentioned can be done by several people in a corp, but those people want a share of the loot. You don't have to share the loot with the multiple personalities you create when running alts... 😉
  7. That depends on how you do it... Examples: Training, you can train x times faster, certain characters can do thing 1, the other thing 2, the other thing 3, etc. I have two dedicated pilots, everything to lvl 5, one dedicated Element placer and one industrialist. You could train dedicated gunners, split up the Industry stack across multiple accounts, etc. You, as a player, can do everything well (it might just require a different character). Automining, allows you x times the charges to automine, allowing you to mine more ore then a single account. Use for your main account. Missions, gives you multiple valuable packages to transport. Makes more quanta you can use for your main account. Multiple accounts can't run on a single PC, but they can run on multiple PCs. Which is allowed by NQ, as long as you don't use multiple chars in PVP. One PC flying missions, one PC doing other stuff... Multiple accounts do make the progression of the 'collective' faster. More quanta, more ore, cheaper production, more profit, better ships/industry, etc. This snowballs quickly!
  8. Even if they give details on wipe, I wouldn't trust that statement as the endstate of the wipe. NQ is famous for changing 'it's' mind at the last minute...
  9. To be fair, NQ never claimed they were wiping to solve inequality, they were solving issues they never fixed during beta. Like people exploiting bugs and not rolling those exploits back. Making systems (like missioning, automining, etc.) not 'balanced' with the rest of the game, slow an half-baked fixes, then again waiting months to do anything about it and then 'fixing' it with a wipe...
  10. Erm... This is DU in a nutshell, or do you have everything at your base? I certainly don't! You don't want to know how many trips I made to my outer planets base(s) just to get everything there I needed before building stuff there that was more efficient to build there (instead of hauling from the safezone. Even as a new player (back when beta started), I had to buy stuff I didn't have enough of or wasn't mineable on Sanctuary (T3+ stuff). And going to market was a thing, you brought stuff to sell and spend your quanta on stuff you wanted. These days you have way more options as a new player to do or get stuff, the limitation is Schematics when you go beyond backpack production.
  11. Missions, doing it with 10 alts means all the money is for you, doing with 10 friends you split the money. As for time... The flying you can do AFK, if you're not doing it that way, you're doing it wrong! The time is in the logging in the 10 characters. Missions: Fuel up ship Make sure everyone is onboard (they should already be there) Fly to pickup point (on autopilot) Pickup cargo Log in 10 alts doing the same (takes a while) Fly your route to delivery point, slowboat style, outside of the pipes (on autopilot) Land on autopilot. Deliver package Log in 10 alts doing the same (takes a while) Transfer profit to main Repeat I don't know how many trips you make per day, but if it's one, you're doing something wrong if it takes you hours. Unless you add in the actual transit time you're running on autopilot... If you do this 4x a day, it might take a combined ~2 hours/day, but it would make you ~250M/day, if you run a more complex route it might take you ~2.5 hours/day and make ~375M/day. You could make more per day running multiple PCs/clients, but then it quickly is going to take up a lot more time flying around with warp shuttles handling all the pickup/delivery. I've been flying around for months doing 3-4 trips a day, doing 4 missions each time. 4 days a week, making 300M-400M/week. I was working up the infrastructure to up that to 1B+ with the same crew (more complex route and an additional PC). But the more talk about launch and wipe, the less motivated I became to do something with it...
  12. It's easy! Look how I scribbled how it should work on this napkin! 😉
  13. That doesn't fly for me. NQ made the game experience a huge grind before you can do certain things the last year and a half has been an experience of additional limitations with every patch, most of us working hard to overcome those limitations, just to run into another wall that suddenly appears randomly after another NQ patch. That doesn't mean I didn't have any satisfaction in the game, I did have some satisfaction when I reached a milestone in my (master) plan. Let me put it this way, I've been crawling along DU, every time I started to get up a bit, NQ kicked my legs from under me with their changes. The wipe will be NQ coming out with a machete to cut my arms and legs off and telling me that worms should start over... Imho NQ has been hard at work making DU more grindy then is necessary or fun.
  14. Since beta launch, how many of these redesigns have been forced due to changes?
  15. Have you... I'm just suggesting that every character could take only 100M quanta in wallet into the post launch game. If you don't have that... No problem. If you have more, anything above that is converted into loyalty points and you can do 'something' with those. I certainly have more in my wallets then 100M quanta, but one of the arguments is that missioning has been misused, that will probably mean that there are some people with significantly more quanta in their wallet then 100M quanta. Or you could make it more complex like: For every month a character had an active subscription in beta, 10M quanta can be taken into the game post launch... What's your problem... With this...
  16. Wait... Correct me if I'm wrong! You're on Sanctuary, you go to the local market, if not there you take the shuttle to Allioth. Then you take the teleporter to Alioth 6 and walk or use the compact-able ship to go to Alioth Market 6... Side note: Maybe I'm 'special' but my characters can craft wings in their packpacks... XS and S...
  17. "we're going to do everything we can so that we don't have to go through a wipe again" is the message they pushed at Beta launch. Imho the flat text doesn't do justice to how much a full wipe at launch would be very unlikely, even their (streaming)partners pushed this message. (For everyone that was new to DU atleast.) This is imho the reason why DU suddenly became so popular over night with a certain (streaming) crowd. And also imho they don't seem to have done everything they could do, it almost seems that they did everything they did to do a full wipe at 'release'. I see that as misleading at best and false advertising at worst. In business terms I would call it improper management, and with the large turn around of CEOs, I might not be the only one. I'm also of mind that NQ has other options then a complete wipe. Reimbursing people for Schematics would make quanta pretty worthless overnight. What NQ could do is convert that quanta to loyalty points for example, with that you could buy certain things that are not directly in game, like skins for elements, characters, pets... Or even game time (sure that cost NQ money, but the f-upped). You could even limit every character to a max of 100M quanta, everything above that at date/time x is converted to loyalty points. Folks that exploited bugs (doubling items for example) in the past should be punished and the exploited product removed without refund. People that used unbalanced game mechanics can't be blamed for the faults NQ made, but you only get refunded what you paid for it (so cheap Schematics only gets you back very little). A system like this will take work, but imho I would prefer this to a space market (although I like the concept)... The way NQ is doing it now is going to generate a ton of bad blood (wipe or no wipe) and that is going to seep into the new player pool (toxic).
  18. I am/was still playing and I'm not opposed to the Schematics removal, that's from someone that's been spending a lot of time/resources on acquiring Schematics since 0.23. I don't even mind that all my Schematics go POOF!(tm) without compensation. Why? Because I always found Schematics extremely unfluffy, we're far into the future, trying to build a new civilization and Aphelia suddenly reintroduces copyrights? Quanta makes sense as a token that facilitates trade between colonists. Schematics do not fit in here. Taxes also don't fit in that fluff imho. It breaks a bit of the game immersion for me. I can understand why people see Schematics as a method to put brakes on manufacturing and facilitate trade, but what I've come to realize is that it's only a temporary brake for motivated people. The moment you get far enough ahead of the rest of the pack, your Schematic growth is exponential. This is also the reason why people where doing SO much missioning, they needed the quanta to buy Schematics. Sure you need it as well for taxes, buying BPCs, elements and ore on the market, etc. But certainly not so much... As an example: Over the last months I've been doing a ton of missioning with my four characters and acquired 2B+ quanta. Some was spent on buying ore, BPCs, elements, etc. during that period, but the objective was getting enough quanta to start building a Warp Beacon factory on Sanctuary. Yesterday I had 1.7B quanta available and spent 800M on BPCs, that is an insane and unreasonable amount of BPCs to buy for any normal situation. The scarry thing is that with my current trade route that is about of two weeks of missioning... If I expanded my traderoute and/or did an additional traderoute with another PC, I would do this in less then a week. Now the missioning nerfs this would mean about 8 weeks with my current configuration, with an additional PC, maybe 5 weeks... BUT without Schematics, why would I bother ~100M/week is still way more then I need without Schematics. Why would folks have 20-100 alts for missioning if they have way more quanta then they can spend/use? Imho it's the same with (auto)mining, when I've mined 25M Natron for space fuel (year+), why would I continue to mine that? To sell it? Only if it's profitable and if I need the quanta.... Personally I think that the removal of the Schematics system and the Missioning nerfs with the connected max space speed nerf, will result in a better image for DU. It will not actually solve the things some players have been complaining about that is now resulting in a potential complete wipe, but it will make it way more hidden and more difficult to understand/comprehend. Which is good for NQ. Now, if you do the Missioning nerfs with the connected max space speed nerf and NOT the Schematics system removal. The amount of Schematics normal, casual players can acquire will be so extremely limited that it is never going to be a game play loop they can participate in. Something you can already see in the forums on a regular basis. People make stuff and can't sell it on the market for profit. Because they can't sell anything for profit, they can't buy anything they can't build, as no quanta. They can mine (more) and sell that, but they kinda need those ores to build stuff. Even so, it would mean all the players that can't compete in the manufacturing loop are mining until there is so much ore that the ore prices drop a LOT and then they can't make much quanta anymore either, so back to missioning they go (if they can/want) or just quit. When players, new or old, can just build anything they want, they just have to mine it. No quanta needed (only for taxes, but I would love to see that gone as well and replaced by something else)! Imho Schematics make the divide between rich and poor players ever larger.
  19. Multiple accounts are allowed in DU. Multiple clients in pvp were not allowed (unless NQ changed their mind on that front). The problem is then not that it p2w, but that it's cheating in pvp. Of course, there are arguments to be made for multiple accounts in DU to be p2w, but win what exactly? Of course a single account with 20 months training in piloting and gunnery will win from a single account with only 3 months of training in the same skills... That first account started earlier, has more talent points and paid more in subscriptions then the second account. Is that also p2w in your mind?
  20. For any normal game, the game loop should be entertaining on it's own. But for a lot of us, this game is a building game where we expect persistence. The game loops in the game are actually quickly boring and don't let up. It's just not only the building that can be frustrating (lack of proper tools/options), but grinding the resources/quanta is such a bother! The satisfaction comes when you've finish that project and set the goals to the next. Part of that satisfaction is that what you did is now there and can be used. Be it a ship, a base, factory, landing-pad, space station, the materials for 100M in space fuel, infrastructure, etc. I of course can choose to break it down again, to do something else, abandon it, blow it up in pvp, etc. But that is my choice/risk to make/take... If NQ would have said that they would wipe at launch, I wouldn't be playing DU and paying NQ for the privilage. If NQ says, we'll do it in two years (again), I won't continue to play. Many wouldn't.
  21. Imho you're wasting your time (yours to waste though). NQ has promised systems that after years of development are still not in place. There are enough ideas at NQ, just not enough manpower/skill/focus to get that done.
  22. But a single character doing missions was never the issue. A single character today would make ~100M/week (doing it via my method). That currently sounds like a lot as ore is cheap, making elements cheap. But if ore is not cheap, as there is virtually none on the market, what will you spend your quanta on. Mining would be profitable, but you can make everything yourself, so why buy from the market? If I would be playing again after the wipe with my four accounts (subscription runs till November) I would do the following: 1 Pilot would fly the four best missions from the 4 characters every day (except weekends). => quanta in All four would setup maximized automining operations, 200+ autominers, just do the mini game with a character during the week => ore in During the weekend do asteroid mining, one character doing the piloting of the scanship, another character doing the mining, another doing the hauling back and forth. => ore in I would do this until I have my infrastructure/ships in place again, then start selling ore as well, as it would still be pretty valuable. => ore out, quanta in
  23. With the slanted message of NQ regarding wipe or no wipe, I expect a wipe, just unsure/unclear on how bad it's going to be. Thus I'm making a list for how likely certain thing are going to be wiped. I'm not talking about what I would like to see, but what I expect from NQ. Maybe someone else has some interesting views on that: From most likely to least likely: Schematics Quanta Scans Items in market storage Items in container storage on constructs outside of Sanctuary Constructs outside of Sanctuary Items in container storage on constructs everywhere Constructs everywhere Blueprint Copies Blueprint Originals Talent Points There could be some convoluted system in place where you could only take X amount of whatever into the full release, but I imagine that unlikely as that would need very specific systems in place and I do not think that NQ currently has the manpower to do that (well)... Unless NQ drops some more specific information, I won't be grinding anymore quanta. With the quanta I have, I won't be spending it on Schematics (had just grinded enough to setup my first Warp Beacon factory). I will be buying a bunch of BPCs, move all the stuff in market storage to Sanctuary and move some of the other stuff in system to Sanctuary. Maybe build some additional ships, park them at sanctuary and distribute them evenly across my accounts. With the left over quanta, share across my accounts. I think I'll have been as risk averse as humanly possible doing all this. When done, I'll be playing other games until it becomes clear what will happen, and even then I might not return as NQ has been extremely undependable regarding decisions that heavily impact the player base (scans is just one example of many). ==================================== Imho, if you're a player that doesn't care one way or another, I'm happy for you that you will enjoy playing a game no matter what. I would love to be as an accepting person as you are! If you want a wipe, I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish, I hope you're happy with yourself. If you actually get what you really wanted is a whole other matter entirely... If you don't want a wipe, you're pretty fncked! 😉 It might not be as bad as a complete wipe, they might not take everything... If that's acceptable or not to you, is a personal matter. Personally I do not want a wipe at all. And I can only comment here and on Discord to make my stance clear, as I only buy my year subscription from Markee Dragon these days and did that in November (12 months on all four accounts). So I cannot make a statement by cancelling my recurring subscription to make it clear to NQ that the current situation isn't acceptable. Not to mention that cancelling your subscription required you to jump through some hoops in some circumstances... @NQ Shame on you on just making the situation worse (even more unclear), hours before the easter weekend! We've been asking for a clear decision for many months now, not making a clear statement (one way or the other) is just shameful!
  24. Maybe... You still get a bunch of Special missions per day, it looks like you'll get a couple of missions worth a couple of million. I'm currently doing one traderoute 3-4 times a day, with 4 characters, ~4 days a week (the weekend is less save through pvp space). With the new system I can probably only do one special mission at a time, at different locations. I would still be able to do 4 of them (less space/weight, still at full speed) per day, but I can choose the 4 best special missions from a pool of four characters. Add to that a couple of less paying, lightweight constant flights, with 4 missions a day, I can get around 25M/day or 100M/week. That's about 1/4th of what I get from the current setup. But that change isn't done in a vacuum. They also want to abolish the Schematics model, that is my biggest quanta sink at the moment, after that it's buying BPs from players (of whole ships if I'm feeling lazy). I currently do buy certain components from the market due to not (yet) being able to build them myself, that would change and I would have very little reason to buy stuff from the market (I manufacture often as much as I can myself). Then we have basic materials, but with the probable wipe, everyone needs to start afresh, most people will need their ore themselves, so very little winds up on the market. And what does wind up there will be relatively expensive, way more expensive then it is now. Due to that, auto mining, picking up stuff, asteroid mining does become interesting again. For me, I can generate enough charges on four max chars to run 200 autominers, so I'm good on ore... Might have to buy some of the more rare stuff, but I don't expect much. What I do need quanta for is taxes, at current rates I need maybe 10% of that 100M/week, that leaves me with 90M/week to spend on other stuff, without Schematics that is a huge amount of quanta! If you have more chars, you could decide to run more then one PC doing missions, the more chars you have, the bigger chance you'll have overlap in missions, making more and more quanta... I expect that in a world where you needed billions for schematics, you could earn tens of billions with missioning. In a world without schematics, you can still make billions doing missions...
  25. But how long will you stay when you realize that nothing has really changed, that the dedicated geniuses still outperform you by a mile. And that others, will also see opportunities your group won't or will just outspend you in RL with accounts and computers... Anyone complaining about 'an unfair advantage' doesn't get how an MMO sandbox works... There's always a bunch of people that have advantages you do not have, making them by definition unfair. Get over it! I prefer a ton of extra players, but I hate basing bad decisions on people that will quit after a month...
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