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Guest Lemmiwinks!

We need construct based tools (mining, salvage, repair, etc).

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Guest Lemmiwinks!

Right now, in DU the only way to mine/repair/salvage is to use hand based tools. The only way to improve these is by researching character skills in the skill tree, which is passive and requires no input from the player. Even when upgraded, the tool still looks the same in your characters hand and when used.

In my opinion, the game is in dire need of construct based tools. Mining/salvage lasers, tractor beams, repair tools, etc. Components like these would try player innovation and creativity and create something to work towards for non-combat focused players. And they should be a significant step up from hand based tools.

These tools should be available to add in all constructs (dynamic, static, space). You should be able to build a functional mining platform on the land you own, or be able to use your ship to tear apart asteroids. Come across a derelict wreck on a distant moon? You should be able to cut it up into pieces and haul it back to market. Or use your fast and nimble Repair Speeder to quickly fix up the battleship docked at your spacestation.

While I appreciate that the MMO side of things demands player skills, end game mining should not look the same as day 1 mining, only with a bigger mining bubble on your HUD. Cargo hauling and player inventory upgrades are an example of how you could include both in the game and still have it be engaging/functional. New tool based elements could sit alongside the player tools and augment them, no need to replace what we already have, just expand upon it!

Additionally, with LUA, you would enable players to make really interesting things. Automatic repair or mining platforms come to mind.

TL;DR: DU needs constructs that can mine/salvage/repair/etc. in addition to combat, hauling, and exploration. Dynamic, static, and space constructs could all make use of tools.

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In this high-tech time I think it would be more convenient having visible modules for the current hand tool that could be upgraded. These modules could be manufactured after being unlocked relative to skill levels. What do you think about this?

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While I think that could be nice, I still firmly believe we need constructs with purpose.

 

Right now, constructs can only be used for 3 things: combat, hauling, and personal transport.  Even though there are dozens of potential jobs, any construct you make can only serve one of these 3 functions.  Any base you build is purely for aesthetics, or for housing industry elements.

 

I can't help but compare to games like Starbase, EVE, Space Engineers, etc. which all have vehicle based professions.  The end game for thousands of hours of mining must be a different experience than the day 1 gameplay.  It is not about the visual of the hand tool or its capability, it is the fact that there is nothing to truly work towards within a given profession other than stat boosts at the moment.

 

As a noob miner you may use the handtool, but as a expert veteran player, you may have a massive mining ship that you have specifically designed to discover and eat entire asteroids.  There must be a sense of depth and progression in every industry, and there must be the ability for players to use their creativity to innovate. 

 

Innovation and creativity are the essence of DU and its player driven world, and there needs to be the chance for better designs to win out over lesser ones.  A miner must dream about the day he can finally purchase that XL Mining Laser, or that High Speed Repair Arm for his ship.  There should be entire Orgs built around strip mining moons or providing On-Demand repair services to fleets after combat.  All parts of the economy must have progression and depth or people will eventually grow tired of them and they will cease to grow.  Right now, mining is purely a means to an end, not something that the community as a whole finds genuinely enjoyable.

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NQ has specifically said they dont want to have automated mining for that very reason. The existence of LUA as a main feature in the game makes abusing mining as a profession and flooding the market all too easy. They are worried that if they allow construct based mining it will make mining less balanced when comparing newer players to old. 

 

That said, I disagree with them. While I do think there should be limits to prevent fleets of unmanned mining dro6nes making loads of passive income for organizations, we need something better than pickaxes after spending a lot of time in the game. And i definitely agree we need more construct based professions. in a game that touts being able to build anything, it seems silly that we cant make ships that actually do anything other than shoot.

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I would even like to have bots, that one can program to do simple things, like: "walk the route( a , b , c ) - repeat"

or vending machines - so you can create an automated mall

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I see no reason why a civilization with such advanced hand-held tools should not have vastly more powerful construct based tools.

 

I envision a mining ship with an x-ray vision mode that allows pinpointing of resource nodes from a km away underground, excavating a passage to the node, and mining it.

 

Let's make it happen, NQ.

 

Oh and also, resource nodes really should be a lot bigger in general. 10x the current minimum size as the new base minimum. Same resource count per hex, naturally.

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17 hours ago, Emptiness said:

I see no reason why a civilization with such advanced hand-held tools should not have vastly more powerful construct based tools.

 

I envision a mining ship with an x-ray vision mode that allows pinpointing of resource nodes from a km away underground, excavating a passage to the node, and mining it.

 

Let's make it happen, NQ.

 

Oh and also, resource nodes really should be a lot bigger in general. 10x the current minimum size as the new base minimum. Same resource count per hex, naturally.

I agree. There should be analogs of hand tools (but in greater size and efficiency) that can be installed on ships or buildings. Moreover, with different sizes - XS, S, M, etc.
As for resource extraction, this is definitely a rig with a drill (requires a low skill level) and a laser (requires a high skill level). As in EVE online, mining from asteroids.
AND! And most importantly, the balance that the developers talked about is not upset. You can do this - surface drilling rigs can only reach resources that lie at a depth of no more than a kilometer, and these are usually low quality resources (tier 1, etc.). This is where surface drilling rigs can be automated. But! Any loot in space can only be manual. Then the balance will be maintained.

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If they are really that concerned with 'automated drill bots' and balance (to the point of basically ruining the entire game by not making ships be anything but ships) ... it could be something as simple as not allowing drilling elements to be controlled by script, or that drills turn themselves off if a script is active.

 

I'm sure there are many ways anyone can come up with to put a damper on abusive automation, to allow 'more stuff' to be created as a whole.

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so i have been considering how they will handle ore in launch and beyond
and i do not think that the current ore mechanic will work for driving conflict as an area or hex can be mined out pretty quick by just 2 r 3 people,

and then i think on the concept in the launch screen of automated mining
so i think hexes will have a second ore measure coming soon that is of an indefinite ore production system

else, ....  how do u drive material conflict for a hex that has no materials

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to clarify i think some source of ore, possibly non minable by hand, or not even visible to the player, 

will likely end up existing in individual hexes, possibly below the max dig depth line ...


these "ore" materials will require i believe an element / fixture that is complex and expensive to build

and requires being placed on a static construct

and supports a direct down non planet material destructive digging footprint. (ie it digs and mines without actually digging)

 

 

disagree with this sure please do, but then tell me : 
your interpretation of exactly what an automated mining unit would be good for on hexes with no materials 

and then follow that up with what the driving force for conflict will be after materials are exhausted from a hex or worse an entire area of hexes

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16 minutes ago, Greviouss said:

to clarify i think some source of ore, possibly non minable by hand, will end up existing in individual hexes,
these ore materials will require i believe an 
element / fixture that is complex and expensive to build and requires being placed on a static construct and supports a direct down digging footprint.

 

 

disagree with this sure please do, but then tell me : 
your interpretation of exactly what an automated mining unit would be good for on hexes with no materials 

and then follow that up with what the driving force for conflict will be after materials are exhausted from a hex or worse an entire area of hexes

I think you need something like the one in the picture below (link).
- The game needs to add vertical veins underground. Just above such veins, you need to install a static structure (automatic earner).
- The miner can be connected to the container.
- The miner needs cartridges (which will be spent during work, as the drill sinks deeper and deeper). Cartridges are special pipes (supports). When placing the building in inventory - cartridges are returned separately.
- You can install an item in a building (there is a slot for this), a slot for a drill. Boers are different and are suitable for certain ores. Boers wear out over time.
- Add the skill of improving the mining of the earner.
- The drill can go deep enough.
- Yes, you can make a vein that is not wasted. But will it be realistic? And wouldn't that ruin the balance?

- I agree. Such a building must be expensive.

 

miner

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1 hour ago, dmitrynest said:

I think you need something like the one in the picture below (link).
- The game needs to add vertical veins underground. Just above such veins, you need to install a static structure (automatic earner).
- The miner can be connected to the container.
- The miner needs cartridges (which will be spent during work, as the drill sinks deeper and deeper). Cartridges are special pipes (supports). When placing the building in inventory - cartridges are returned separately.
- You can install an item in a building (there is a slot for this), a slot for a drill. Boers are different and are suitable for certain ores. Boers wear out over time.
- Add the skill of improving the mining of the earner.
- The drill can go deep enough.
- Yes, you can make a vein that is not wasted. But will it be realistic? And wouldn't that ruin the balance?

- I agree. Such a building must be expensive.

 

miner

kinda what i was thinking yea

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I would love to see what they have planed since it is on the login screen. But ship based mining should definitely be a thing as well.
 

To avoid lua I’m thinking a mining laser that requires a special seat/console to control, so it’s all manual.  You have to use it to dig just like the hand tool but it is faster/wider then once you hit ore in a planet/ asteroid it just eats up the whole pocket over time without having to re aim.  So long as you aim it at a deposit thenano-bots start collecting from the edge and bring it to the beam a few L per second. If you get interrupted for whatever reason the beam stops and you have a cool down to start it back up. Whatever was in the beam for transit will be lost then you can go right pack to mining. 

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