Jump to content
Renji3

Money, its allways about money.

Recommended Posts

Hey guys.

 

Everywhere on here i see people talking about the economy and how your stuff will be sold/rented etc.

Thats all good questions and need to be talked about. But in never have actually seen anyone discuss about how the "money" actually come into the game.

 

In the post about economy (can be found here https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/12/04/from-barter-to-market-economy/) the dev team did only talk about how your money would be able be spend.

And a hint that there will be probably a Barter System in the beginning.

 

For me that all sounds really exiting seeing a Barter System evolving to an actuall trade system around Money.

 

Asuming, that its still not totaly dicided, how money will come into the game, I just tought about opening the discussion here, to help the Dev Team gather some Ideas.

 

 

 

At the beginning there will probably be a Barter System. 
"If you give me 10 iron, i'll give you that part for your ship".

 

And looking at the history of money (also linked in the thread above), it will eventualy get into a Gift economy, where one will do something, for nothing in return (at least at first). 
"Can i use your oven too? I don't have someting to give you back right now, but i'll owe you one"

 

In the Economy this owing was hard to coun't with so one started inventing money, given by the Goverment.

 

 

Given, that DU dev team only want's a single courrency, to get things Simple (as simple as an econemy can be at least), there will be a way, to get money into play.

 

You could convert some Ore into actuall money. So the ore would be worth exactly that money.

But that would show one Problem. The money in the game will compulsorily start to inflate.
The more easy the ore choosen to be the money will be the more easy it will inflate.

 

There would be needed someting, to get the money out of the System again.

In an regular MMORPG an NPC would sell you stuff, to get the Money Back out of the System. 
In DU there won't be NPCs selling stuff.

There Could be things like The ark, Forcing you to pay Money, when you die. Maybe a procentual part of the Money you have so you will be revived no matter if you have the dollars or you don't. Setting an upper bound here would be good as well.

 

 

Laying the ground here and Some ideas, I'll start giving the discussion to you guys. What do you think of possible ways, to get Money Into and out of the System. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My guess, by mining a mineral called Cashium-1337 which you refine into money, making certain planets rich in Cashium-1337, a real money pit. That keeps planets of value being a center for contest between the big boys who need more money.


But, it's my guess, the devs could go with Gold or something like that :V

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I asked this question in a similar topic in the general forums and it seems like on one really knows the long term plan for money.

I see a lot of issues with using currency. As you mentioned many games suffer from inflation and that is with a non player drain on money. Even with these measures the game market will always inflate, with no methods to drain money via npc inflation will become a huge problem very quickly.

 

Some games get around this by using a common crafting material or highly used material as currency. Generic metal bar is currency and generic metal bar is used in all ammo, building things and crafting elements in the game. This keeps back inflation because the currency leaves the market by crafting.

 

I am very interested in how they plan on using currency. In the real world currency only works because of hundreds or thousands of years of faith in the system. Protection in that system by government and a large amount of regulation. If everyone can "print money" by killing a monster or harvesting it out of the ground I dont think the system will work.

 

I hope they clarify this seeing as how economy and trade is one of the core pillars on which this game is going to be founded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was also thinking about this. I think that energy could be a effective form of currency.

 

When first starting out, the ark ship could supply us with a small amount of energy to get things started (setting up first shelter or powering basic vehicles). But as we progress we would likely have power reactors, solar collectors etc. At this point in the civilization we would switch from a basic trade/barter system to a currency based economy with energy as our currency.

 

I believe this would also create a great currency sink. As people could trade raw materials for energy to power shields, ships, housing, planetary basses etc. When this energy is used to power things it in turn gets removed from the game an in doing so counters inflation.

 

The energy its self would be harvested from (as i mentioned earlier) generators and solar collectors. Generators could require some rare materials for to run and in turn that adds to the dynamic economy. Energy could also be easily stored in a compact container similar to our quantum backpack that compresses ore. In turn it could be transferred to basses and structures, and used directly to purchase items and materials from Market hubs.

 

This is just a basic idea and could be expanded on, but i believe that this currency system would be more natural, dynamic and intuitive than the typical Gold system that is used by most mmorpgs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I asked this question in a similar topic in the general forums and it seems like on one really knows the long term plan for money.

I see a lot of issues with using currency. As you mentioned many games suffer from inflation and that is with a non player drain on money. Even with these measures the game market will always inflate, with no methods to drain money via npc inflation will become a huge problem very quickly.

 

Some games get around this by using a common crafting material or highly used material as currency. Generic metal bar is currency and generic metal bar is used in all ammo, building things and crafting elements in the game. This keeps back inflation because the currency leaves the market by crafting.

 

I am very interested in how they plan on using currency. In the real world currency only works because of hundreds or thousands of years of faith in the system. Protection in that system by government and a large amount of regulation. If everyone can "print money" by killing a monster or harvesting it out of the ground I dont think the system will work.

 

I hope they clarify this seeing as how economy and trade is one of the core pillars on which this game is going to be founded.

 

Eve online is an example of a working game economy, the game has been running for 13 years now iirc and the economy is still healthy. Even though there is a lot of inflation prices have been largely stable for most of the game's existence and are for the most part only influenced by supply, demand and speculation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was also thinking about this. I think that energy could be a effective form of currency.

 

When first starting out, the ark ship could supply us with a small amount of energy to get things started (setting up first shelter or powering basic vehicles). But as we progress we would likely have power reactors, solar collectors etc. At this point in the civilization we would switch from a basic trade/barter system to a currency based economy with energy as our currency.

 

I believe this would also create a great currency sink. As people could trade raw materials for energy to power shields, ships, housing, planetary basses etc. When this energy is used to power things it in turn gets removed from the game an in doing so counters inflation.

 

The energy its self would be harvested from (as i mentioned earlier) generators and solar collectors. Generators could require some rare materials for to run and in turn that adds to the dynamic economy. Energy could also be easily stored in a compact container similar to our quantum backpack that compresses ore. In turn it could be transferred to basses and structures, and used directly to purchase items and materials from Markets hubs.

 

This is just a basic idea and could be expanded on, but i believe that this currency system would be more natural, dynamic and intuitive than the typical Gold system that is used by most mmorpgs.

I don't necessarily think passive currency generation would be a good thing. And we know from NQ that money is not going to be physical thing and is going to be stored in accounts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't necessarily think passive currency generation would be a good thing. And we know from NQ that money is not going to be physical thing and is going to be stored in accounts.

The problem is, there will be no npcs that drop gold like there is in normal mmos. So NQ will be tasked with finding a way to naturally generate in game currency. The idea of a trad-able resource like energy becoming currency is a very natural approach. The speed of the energy generation can be fine tuned to balance how passive it is. It could be set up that your generators need to be supplied fuel every 2-3 hours. That makes it a very active task.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eve online is an example of a working game economy, the game has been running for 13 years now iirc and the economy is still healthy. Even though there is a lot of inflation prices have been largely stable for most of the game's existence and are for the most part only influenced by supply, demand and speculation.

True, but eve online(and every other mmo with a currency that i know of) is a game that has npc money sinks built in. These systems can work when you have proper ways to draw money out of the economy. Since the devs have stated there will be a currency, but also stated there will be little to no non player resources, how will money be removed from the market. As you said eve has some inflation issues, it would be far worse if there was zero ways to remove money from the economy. This is what worries me about DU.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Almost 100% of ISK in eve comes from killing NPCs. We know that there will be no NPCs in DU, so EVEs currency system will not work. This is a discussion about the currency not the economy, even though the two are related.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is, there will be no npcs that drop gold like there is in normal mmos. So NQ will be tasked with finding a way to naturally generate in game currency. The idea of a trad-able resource like energy becoming currency is a very natural approach. The speed of the energy generation can be fine tuned to balance how passive it is. It could be set up that your generators need to be supplied fuel every 2-3 hours. That makes it a very active task.

ISK sinks in eve online are small enough that they have basically no impact on the economy though. And since everything in DU is player made inflation is not much of a problem.

 

Edit: wrong qoute, NQ has confirmed though that there will be an ingame currency much like in Eve or WoW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ISK sinks in eve online are small enough that they have basically no impact on the economy though. And since everything in DU is player made inflation is not much of a problem.

 

Edit: wrong qoute, NQ has confirmed though that there will be an ingame currency much like in Eve or WoW

Actually i think inflation is a big matter here.

 

Lets say i'll rent a terain to someone else. Given that you don't want to rearange every contract you have with everyone on a monthly basis, the games inflation should took part only slow. Or at best not at all.

 

Possible ways would be turning your courrency into fuel or something to build with.

The problem is to make that lore conform.

Looking at the energy idea it would be problematic given that energy is not just there but has to be stored somwhere physical.

Going to some place to buy stuff especialy if ite expencive would mean having a fleet to carry the stuff to pay for.

And let alone think about the storage problem if one has a high amount of money.

 

Loosing some money when you die would be possible to explain. Like you will loose items when you die.

But removing money from the pool by this alone, would not be enough, i fear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually i think inflation is a big matter here.

 

Lets say i'll rent a terain to someone else. Given that you don't want to rearange every contract you have with everyone on a monthly basis, the games inflation should took part only slow. Or at best not at all.

 

Possible ways would be turning your courrency into fuel or something to build with.

The problem is to make that lore conform.

Looking at the energy idea it would be problematic given that energy is not just there but has to be stored somwhere physical.

Going to some place to buy stuff especialy if ite expencive would mean having a fleet to carry the stuff to pay for.

And let alone think about the storage problem if one has a high amount of money.

 

Loosing some money when you die would be possible to explain. Like you will loose items when you die.

But removing money from the pool by this alone, would not be enough, i fear.

The thing you guys are missing is that with out npcs to farm for gold there is no currency creation. I ask you this. Where is the currency coming from? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you read even one post here?

 

Thats one of the two underlying questions her

 

Where does it come from and how does it go.

 

Stated possibilitys where the sbility to convert gold to money directly loosing the gold in the procces.

 

Problem: Big chance of infstation, depending om how high/ low the costs of gold are or how rare gold would be.

(Gold only beeing in example here)

Not talking about the lore issue to undermine it here. But i think that may be fixable.

 

The other way would be the posssibility to turn it back into an ore to use.

 

This is better to some extend because money gets an actual worth by this. Other than just beeing this magical money everyone talks about.

 

This has the folowing problem

Asuming money is not physical because we have accounts to store it. The gold you would need to convert from or back to would needs physical representation.

Turning money back to gold or from gold would be resulting in an loss of worth of the money asuming that the physical representation needs space and especialy protection.

 

A centralised way to store store the momey would not be possible because when i'm at the end of the galaxy turning it back would be a pain in the ass.

Making it even more expencive and the money less worth the far away you are from the ark.

 

 

 

It would need an decentralised version of the thing above, with still lore conform reason in how this works.

 

And gold would be needed to have another use rather than turning it into money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Where does it come from and how does it go.

 

 

 

I'm very happy to announce that the Yin Yang Federation has been given the power to create the currency in DU.  Our goal will be to protect the purchasing power of the currency while trying to promote high employment for the people of DU.  This is a service provided by Yin Yang Federation and in the best interests for everyone.  Yin Yang Federation will not keep any profits made from our services, only cover costs of operation.

 

 

 

Worked for the crooks at the Federal Reserve :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...