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A better Arkship position(PLEASE MOVE TO AGORA)

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1. You need less DeltaV to launch from an orbital position, not more.

 

2. Why waste time, resources, and energy constructing a space elevator when you can much more rapidly land on planet and start with a powered, central hub to civilization? The concern of the arkships is the survival of humanity on fertile worlds, not to make a rapid transition to spacefaring as easy as eating cake.

 

3. Nuclear reactors powering thrusters are not emitting an appreciable amount of radiation unless they are damaged. There are also none in existence that can approach any reasonable percentage of lightspeed.

 

3b. The thrusters are unknown (to us) tech, just like how to get kyrium. It's handwaving for story as well as intentionally limiting our tech for gameplay reasons.

 

If you want a space elevator for the sake of a space elevator, fine. I think that could be cool too, even though it's rendered obsolete by the tech level of the game (SSTO craft presumably being the norm). I also think it would be more fun to build one that to just have it sitting there from the beginning.

 

But the way you frame your argument like you are right and the devs are wrong, without accurate or compelling reasoning, makes it hard to take seriously.

 

 

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1.but it is possible to make it so you need more delta v in general. This will also make SSTOs harder, promotingthe need for said space elevators and other innovated launch assist structures. 

 

2. From a rl perspective, space elevatord would make sense because they make space access easier, allowing for tapping into asteroid riches. In fact, the colonists would probably establish a space economy and infastructure before colonizing planets. (See

For details) but its a freakin game so*

 

3.When I mentioned nuclear, I meant all sorts of nuclear reactions including fusion and antimatter.

 

*we can handwave this away by saying that there was a critical error and this was the contingency plan

 

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Having new players spawn in an orbiting arkship just introduces additional hassle.

 

There's nothing a new player can do there except maybe things like tutorials. They can't mine or build up there, so everyone will be rushing to get to the planet's surface anyway.

It would require a game-generated transport mechanism to get new players to the safezone on Alioth.

It will create an extremely high concentration of avatars in a very small space in the first few days after launch.

 

According to the lore, the "shield" that protects the safezone on the surface is generated by the arkship. If the arkship is now in orbit, some new lore will have to be created to support the safezone shield on the planet's surface.

 

Personally, I think the idea of an orbiting arkship is more "realistic", but for game play reasons it's simply better to have the initial spawn for new players on Alioth's surface.

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5 hours ago, 0something0 said:

@NanoDot

Probably should have posted the diagram in the original post

 

Its edited now so...

The space elevator you suggest runs contrary to NQ's desire to have everything in the world built by players.

 

It also leads to a few other issues...

 

Players will go down to Alioth, collect resources, and then all go back up to the arkship in orbit to build their spaceships, which will lead to a huge concentration of player avatars and constructs in one tiny space. The arkship will have to provide large hangars where players can build and launch ships from (hundreds of players simultaneously).

 

The arkship in orbit will also have to have its own safezone, which will be packed with hundreds of player-built space ships. This new arkship safezone will remove the need for a player-built "first foothold" in space, which is a significant goal in the current design.

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again, such an elevator is just not possible with game mechanics. No need to debate this any further.....

 

EDIT:

AMA Reference, pt.2:

How high can we build? Is a space elevator a possibility?

 

Because planets should turn around their axis in the future (if no particular technical problem prevents us from doing it), we will limit the altitude of what you can build to avoid having to handle collisions on the server for potentially millions of nearby constructs. In practice, anything below the max building altitude will "turn" together with the planet. This should be a few kilometers high. So, no space elevator, or else no turning planets!

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In the Lore, there is a logical explanation to the position of the Arkships.

In "crashing" on the surface of Alioth, it sinks into the ground, the Arkships can then creates electricity by geothermal energy.

I find this all equally realistic and well thought out.

 

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We can "handwave" this away by remembering that this technology was created using the element narrativium, which is one of the most powerful elements in the known universe. 

 

Also, I wouldn't be too keen on my first major, irreplaceable foothold in a new corner of the cosmos being a giant hunk of metal orbiting around a planet.  Planting it in the ground to harvest geothermal energy  while providing shielding to new colonists in a safe, secure environment makes much more sense from a long-term practical point of view.  A space elevator would be something you'd build later as you re-emerge into the stars from your starting point, if it were possible in the game (it won't be).

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5 hours ago, 0something0 said:

@Precise_CalibreI disagree. Why throw away a giant ship, the energy to build it and,the "spacefaring civilization" title into a deep gravity well while you can re-use it and set up colonies on other planets and in orbit?

 

Also, handwaving is done by handwavium.

Because it's systems are 10k years old and were running that long. You have to check everything and most likely change it anyway.

Because those colonists need shelter, energy and basic facilities until they build them.

Because there are already many arks underway to other systems. It doesn't make sense to reuse a 10k year old ship for another trip right after arrival. 

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Obviously, we have reached a point where we are disregarding DU's game mechanics, lore, or NQ's vision. Please get somebody to move this to Agora or Off-topic.

 

To refurbish/renew the systems  asteroids and small moons are an obvious choice since they require little energy to get to and have plenty of resources. The same resources can be used to establish colonies all over the solar system, in orbit and on planets, and create a thriving systemwide economy.

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12 minutes ago, 0something0 said:

Obviously, we have reached a point where we are disregarding DU's game mechanics, lore, or NQ's vision. Please get somebody to move this to Agora or Off-topic.

 

To refurbish/renew the systems  asteroids and small moons are an obvious choice since they require little energy to get to and have plenty of resources. The same resources can be used to establish colonies all over the solar system, in orbit and on planets, and create a thriving systemwide economy.

Well you disregard it lol

 

Well yeah, we (as the ocolonists) could use those to refurbish the ark, but that's not what DU is about. We don't need another ark, we're already there.

 

Colonies on asteroids, moons, space stations and everything else will be built by players nonetheless. The arkship position has no influence on that

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I would like it in terms of the aesthetic and in terms of having a justification for making space even harder to get to, but in terms of what it would do to the flow of the game I'm not on board with the idea. You can raise the delta-v requirement of getting into space even without the crutch if it makes sense from a balance perspective (as in you don't need extra justification in the form of having an easy way to get out of the gravity well).

 

I do agree that the lore is kind of silly in many places. The whole notion of "kyrium can absorb energy and therefore a container made of kyrium is safe to be inside when decelerating at 500G" is silly and definitely not how physics works. Also I agree it's a bit insane lithobraking anything that massive into a planet you intend to inhabit. On Earth we consider those kinds of collisions extinction level events (read: you'd probably prefer a nuclear war to what would happen if something like that crashed into Earth). And don't even get me started on the whole quantum suicide respawning thing (there are so many more sensible stories you could justify respawning with).

 

So yeah, the narrative could definitely use some tweaking, as a lot of the sci-fi is on the nonsensical Dr. Who level of scientific accuracy (though at least Dr.W does it with a wink and a nudge, aware of the fact that it's silly and wildly unscientific) -- however the gameplay it results in makes sense. Having to start from "scratch" matches their vision of emergent gameplay nicely, and you definitely need to have an area you restrict people to initially to cheat a bit of critical mass population in the start of the game. Can't have it turn into a single player NSM-esque experience by making escape from Alioth and the ark zone too easy.

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3 hours ago, 0something0 said:

@Lethys Just watch this and you will get what I mean.

 

 

well that's another POV - but this isn't consistent with the lore of DU (ofc)

 

For me personally a lore doesn't need to be consistent with physics (quantum nodes, kyrium) - it makes the game more awesome because it's something special and not the same thing as in every other game.

And in terms of DU lore, the arkship position makes WAY more sense on the surface - as it is right now - plus all the other reasons I told you (gameplay and balancing wise)

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