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Research through discovery.


Stig92

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I don't remember seeing any material on how higher level technology is researched/unlocked, if there is any research process beyond having right resources and production facilities. 

 

If there is a research process to discover new tech (which should then be possible to sell, maybe to license, to others.) I would suggest that research shouldn't be something that you can do simply sitting somewhere running research on fixed tech tree. Many technologies after all depend on our understanding of universe beyond what you can imagine from armchair.

 

Einstein came up with theory of relativity partially in that way, but to prove it people needed to observe solar eclipse and make measurements of starts. Nowadays for example GPS system relies on Einsteins work to operate properly. 

 

Similarly the process of gaining more advanced technology in Dual Universe should at least include the need to go out at explore things to do research or open new lines of research. Perhaps scanning a certain type of star long/often enough reveals some process that opens research line that leads to more efficient fusion reactor, or flat bonus in existing elements. 

 

This type of game play element would open a new aspect of a game where people could go out to explore not just to find new planets but also to do research. It could make dedicated research ships or -stations possible. Running enough of these to research anything valuable would need quite a bit of time and effort, especially after most basic tech, so there would be new incentive to work together in organisations. Sufficient challenge on researching anything would also be necessary if it is to be long term element on the game since eventually people will research everything in the game if more tech isn't added in expansions faster than players research it. That is the largest problem i see with technological advancement in MMO game. 

 

The discovery of technology could also have random, or at least unknown element to it like the game Stellaris seems to have. 

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I don't remember seeing any material on how higher level technology is researched/unlocked, if there is any research process beyond having right resources and production facilities. 

 

If there is a research process to discover new tech (which should then be possible to sell, maybe to license, to others.) I would suggest that research shouldn't be something that you can do simply sitting somewhere running research on fixed tech tree. Many technologies after all depend on our understanding of universe beyond what you can imagine from armchair.

 

Einstein came up with theory of relativity partially in that way, but to prove it people needed to observe solar eclipse and make measurements of starts. Nowadays for example GPS system relies on Einsteins work to operate properly. 

 

Similarly the process of gaining more advanced technology in Dual Universe should at least include the need to go out at explore things to do research or open new lines of research. Perhaps scanning a certain type of star long/often enough reveals some process that opens research line that leads to more efficient fusion reactor, or flat bonus in existing elements. 

 

This type of game play element would open a new aspect of a game where people could go out to explore not just to find new planets but also to do research. It could make dedicated research ships or -stations possible. Running enough of these to research anything valuable would need quite a bit of time and effort, especially after most basic tech, so there would be new incentive to work together in organisations. Sufficient challenge on researching anything would also be necessary if it is to be long term element on the game since eventually people will research everything in the game if more tech isn't added in expansions faster than players research it. That is the largest problem i see with technological advancement in MMO game. 

 

The discovery of technology could also have random, or at least unknown element to it like the game Stellaris seems to have. 

 

While I agree on the fact that it's more emergent to unlock certain techs/skills with some scanning/exploring I have some issues with this - I'll come to that later.

I think it would be cool to unlock new techs for research (read: new skills which is essentialy what you'll do) through scanning a sun or scanning lots of different lifeforms (trees, flora,...) for new medical skills or scanning different biomes for new/better suited methods of traveling/defense in that biome for example. For more PVP oriented players there could be some timer for example - after sitting in a turret for x hours / shooting x times / destroying x elements / killing x ships you unlock different skills.

 

BUT

 

- this can easily turn into a grind

- you have to make sure those unlocks are available for everyone who are dedicated enough

- random finds are always problematic because you can't do anything to get this research tree - you have to rely on RNGesus who likes to screw you over and over again

- there will be guides anyhow on the internet after some time how to get certain skilltrees - so this mechanic would just shrink down to some annoying path you have to do in order to get your char where you want him to be. Look up what needs to be done - follow it / grind it - unlock skill.

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If you research something, you should be able to give it to another player (if someone has already found out how to make a warp drive, they can teach you). There could be a non-profit org that anyone can join that simply procures and provides research. It would be good as the society this game would have would change which techs get researched first.

 

Techs should not be mistaken for skills. Skills are trained, techs are learnt. To create something, you need to know how to make it (via schematics/techs) and be trained enough to make it (skills).

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If you research something, you should be able to give it to another player (if someone has already found out how to make a warp drive, they can teach you). There could be a non-profit org that anyone can join that simply procures and provides research. It would be good as the society this game would have would change which techs get researched first.

 

Techs should not be mistaken for skills. Skills are trained, techs are learnt. To create something, you need to know how to make it (via schematics/techs) and be trained enough to make it (skills).

 

I agree that there are different types of techs:

 

- TECHniques: how to build a ship for example

- TECHnology: new elements (like ftl drives)

 

While the first category is more dependent on soft skills, the latter is only dependent on skills. R&D for new TECHnology will revolve around finding new materials by combining them AND skilltraining. You have to train skills for, lets say, 6 months in order to build and use the element "ftl drive" and you need "construction V, energy management X" plus the resources "uberfastium" and "extremedurablium" to build it. For those resources you need "insert other ridiculus, completly made up names".

 

So, in fact, this second type is only about skills.

 

ninjaedit:

and yes, how those elements are refined in order to get them is a mix of both - you need to know how to do it (soft skill or blueprint/schematic) and you need the proper skills for it

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R&D for new TECHnology will revolve around finding new materials by combining them AND skilltraining.

The research part, where you unlock techs.

 

 

You have to train skills for, lets say, 6 months in order to build and use the element "ftl drive" and you need "construction V, energy management X" plus the resources "uberfastium" and "extremedurablium" to build it. 

The construction part, where you need the tech and skills to make it.

 

I would say that you don't NEED the tech or skills to USE a device, but having both the tech and the skills will give you improved stat bonuses like reduced cooldown for an ftl drive or improved mining efficiency on a mining drill (i.e. the improved stats are the base numbers, but worded as an improvement because psychology).

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I read somewhere that a video game incorporated some mini-game that helped biologists with something on the microscopic level (can't remember what). Maybe there could be a researching mini-game where you process the data you have collected into usable information (research points, if you will), and the mini-game could help real scientists and researchers process data by outsourcing it to players.

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The research part, where you unlock techs.

 

 

The construction part, where you need the tech and skills to make it.

 

I would say that you don't NEED the tech or skills to USE a device, but having both the tech and the skills will give you improved stat bonuses like reduced cooldown for an ftl drive or improved mining efficiency on a mining drill (i.e. the improved stats are the base numbers, but worded as an improvement because psychology).

 

I don't quite understand what you wanted to say there :P

 

I'm all in for a game where only some people (who make a fortune) have to actually have those skills to build the tech, but some minimal skill requirements should be introduced along the extra bonus from skills.

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I don't remember seeing any material on how higher level technology is researched/unlocked, if there is any research process beyond having right resources and production facilities. 

 

If there is a research process to discover new tech (which should then be possible to sell, maybe to license, to others.) I would suggest that research shouldn't be something that you can do simply sitting somewhere running research on fixed tech tree. Many technologies after all depend on our understanding of universe beyond what you can imagine from armchair.

 

Einstein came up with theory of relativity partially in that way, but to prove it people needed to observe solar eclipse and make measurements of starts. Nowadays for example GPS system relies on Einsteins work to operate properly. 

 

Similarly the process of gaining more advanced technology in Dual Universe should at least include the need to go out at explore things to do research or open new lines of research. Perhaps scanning a certain type of star long/often enough reveals some process that opens research line that leads to more efficient fusion reactor, or flat bonus in existing elements. 

 

This type of game play element would open a new aspect of a game where people could go out to explore not just to find new planets but also to do research. It could make dedicated research ships or -stations possible. Running enough of these to research anything valuable would need quite a bit of time and effort, especially after most basic tech, so there would be new incentive to work together in organisations. Sufficient challenge on researching anything would also be necessary if it is to be long term element on the game since eventually people will research everything in the game if more tech isn't added in expansions faster than players research it. That is the largest problem i see with technological advancement in MMO game. 

 

The discovery of technology could also have random, or at least unknown element to it like the game Stellaris seems to have. 

 

I would love to have a sort of research sub-section to the game. I imagine secret labs and blacksites where players race to work on advanced technology (something like the Manhattan Project), snatch and grab missions designed to steal hard drives and schematics. That is a game I would love to play, but as others have pointed out, it has some problems. I definitely think R&D will play a big role in the game, but not quite in a direct sort of way like lab structures. 

 

With direct research, people will either be reliant on RNG or they will just wait to watch guides on the most efficient ways to power through the research once someone finishes it. To properly design it would also take a lot of developer resources for potentially minimal gameplay reward, plus the difficulty of balancing it so tha tit doesn't lock people out but still poses a challenge.

 

That being said, I think you are quite correct that research will play a huge role in the game, and groups that have the resources to fund lots of labs will be able to make great advancements. Research will probably come in two main forms: design and doctrine. Design is how the ships are designed and built. Doctrine is how they are used.

 

There will most likely be a number of "shipyard" orgs (there already are actually) that will be mainly focused on designing new ships. With the planned intricacies of the physics engine, the infinite possible ship configurations and the variety of elements, ship design will take a long time. Basic ships may be simple to construct and fly but more specialized and advanced ships will need to be designed, built, tested and redesigned. What is the most effective placement of engines? How can the ship be made durable, but still light? How can the cost of a ship be reduced without compromising its effectiveness? These will have to be studied and tested is a sort of space crash-test facility. Plus, there will be "chop shops" where groups try to reverse engineer the designs of other ships so they can replicate or counter them.

 

Doctrine will be advanced through training and scrimmages, as well as trial by fire in actual battles. 

 

I definitely agree that research will be a big part of the game, and very important to the clash of empires. 

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I agree with void here: the most research will be done (and needed) in ship doctrine and how to build an effective ship. Especially doctrines will dictate combat and the monopoly of certain orgs. But I can't really see an actual research mechanic (as mentioned - although I would love it)

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I don't remember seeing any material on how higher level technology is researched/unlocked, if there is any research process beyond having right resources and production facilities. 

 

If there is a research process to discover new tech (which should then be possible to sell, maybe to license, to others.) I would suggest that research shouldn't be something that you can do simply sitting somewhere running research on fixed tech tree. Many technologies after all depend on our understanding of universe beyond what you can imagine from armchair.

 

Einstein came up with theory of relativity partially in that way, but to prove it people needed to observe solar eclipse and make measurements of starts. Nowadays for example GPS system relies on Einsteins work to operate properly. 

 

Similarly the process of gaining more advanced technology in Dual Universe should at least include the need to go out at explore things to do research or open new lines of research. Perhaps scanning a certain type of star long/often enough reveals some process that opens research line that leads to more efficient fusion reactor, or flat bonus in existing elements. 

 

This type of game play element would open a new aspect of a game where people could go out to explore not just to find new planets but also to do research. It could make dedicated research ships or -stations possible. Running enough of these to research anything valuable would need quite a bit of time and effort, especially after most basic tech, so there would be new incentive to work together in organisations. Sufficient challenge on researching anything would also be necessary if it is to be long term element on the game since eventually people will research everything in the game if more tech isn't added in expansions faster than players research it. That is the largest problem i see with technological advancement in MMO game. 

 

The discovery of technology could also have random, or at least unknown element to it like the game Stellaris seems to have. 

I like the idea, I also hope NQ implements this into DU, it would be cool to see groups of players just researching new technology in the game and seeing and visiting research stations would be cool too.

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While I agree on the fact that it's more emergent to unlock certain techs/skills with some scanning/exploring I have some issues with this - I'll come to that later.

I think it would be cool to unlock new techs for research (read: new skills which is essentialy what you'll do) through scanning a sun or scanning lots of different lifeforms (trees, flora,...) for new medical skills or scanning different biomes for new/better suited methods of traveling/defense in that biome for example. For more PVP oriented players there could be some timer for example - after sitting in a turret for x hours / shooting x times / destroying x elements / killing x ships you unlock different skills.

 

BUT

 

- this can easily turn into a grind

- you have to make sure those unlocks are available for everyone who are dedicated enough

- random finds are always problematic because you can't do anything to get this research tree - you have to rely on RNGesus who likes to screw you over and over again

- there will be guides anyhow on the internet after some time how to get certain skilltrees - so this mechanic would just shrink down to some annoying path you have to do in order to get your char where you want him to be. Look up what needs to be done - follow it / grind it - unlock skill.

you make some good points there.

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