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Anaximander

Trauma Mechanics and Emergent Gameplay Consequences.

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No, I agree with you. But I was thinking on more general terms. Typically you would think that an org with more members has access to an increased income of resources and access to a broader range of skills. This means it can regain losses at a faster rate. Although this is not always the case

Well, that's the thing though. In EVE for example, people go for Black Ops bombing runs on infrastructure, like reprocessing plants, or industrial hubs. Taking out an alliance's factories, can go a long way.

 

For a real world example, check the Six Days War as an example of a smaller force, taking on a much greater opponent by going for their key strengths.

 

Initiative is a very powerful weapon. Same thing for DU if a trauma mechanis was to be added. It would guarantee certain attacks would be going down on certain places. Take out a faction's medical supplies industrial hubs, then slowlly drive them off by deadly ambushes.

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Well, that's the thing though. In EVE for example, people go for Black Ops bombing runs on infrastructure, like reprocessing plants, or industrial hubs. Taking out an alliance's factories, can go a long way.

 

For a real world example, check the Six Days War as an example of a smaller force, taking on a much greater opponent by going for their key strengths.

 

Initiative is a very powerful weapon. Same thing for DU if a trauma mechanis was to be added. It would guarantee certain attacks would be going down on certain places. Take out a faction's medical supplies industrial hubs, then slowlly drive them off by deadly ambushes.

In addition, a smaller force is easier to wield, and is usually faster. They are also much easier to replace.

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In addition, a smaller force is easier to wield, and is usually faster. They are also much easier to replace.

True. A frigate roam in EVE may be able to swarm a carrier. A carrier may cost 10 billions, and the frigate fleet may not even cost 1 billion as a whole.

 

Regardless of the Trauma mechanism and if it's implemented, logistics like that are what make or break larger groups.

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I didnt read the whole thread, so this may have already been addressed.

 

Twerk,

 

This sounds like the WEAK player is being made even weaker. Thus giving additional advantage to the PKer.

 

I DO like the suggestion from a RP perspective.

 

I think a well done reputation system could help with the PKer. People should script their storefront to add a premium to players or orgs that prey on the builder.

 

At a certain point, the PKer will have to pay a hefty price for my "super duper gadget". Or go through a middleman, encouraging more commerce.

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I didnt read the whole thread, so this may have already been addressed.

Twerk,

This sounds like the WEAK player is being made even weaker. Thus giving additional advantage to the PKer.

I DO like the suggestion from a RP perspective.

 

Well, the point is for wars to have more than one logistical aspect to them and for people to organise ''raid nights'', by having to wait out a Trauma timer. And let's be honest, most fights will take place on weekends or every other day during summertime, like in EVE. This also makes sure people have more than one path of income, let alone RP choices.

 

Feel free to explain how this rewards the PKer though, I am curious.

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Twerk,

 

It may be better suited for wars and such. Im thinking of that pirate PKer who camps some point of interest.

 

If He's more powerful, he can kill me easily. I respawn in a weaker state, which makes it even easier for me to be attacked by the same PKer.

 

I very much like the trauma idea. And having to visit a hospital or bar before going back to the "point of interest".

 

My thoughts are that Reputation could be used more effectively for a negative to random PKing.

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I think a well done reputation system could help with the PKer. People should script their storefront to add a premium to players or orgs that prey on the builder.

 

At a certain point, the PKer will have to pay a hefty price for my "super duper gadget". Or go through a middleman, encouraging more commerce.

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But the again. Reputation AND Trauma are a double whammy for the PKer. They're marking themselves as someone that should be attacked, which means they're gonna die a lot more than the builder

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Twerk,

 

It may be better suited for wars and such. Im thinking of that pirate PKer who camps some point of interest.

 

If He's more powerful, he can kill me easily. I respawn in a weaker state, which makes it even easier for me to be attacked by the same PKer.

 

I very much like the trauma idea. And having to visit a hospital or bar before going back to the "point of interest".

 

My thoughts are that Reputation could be used more effectively for a negative to random PKing.

 

I think a well done reputation system could help with the PKer. People should script their storefront to add a premium to players or orgs that prey on the builder.

 

At a certain point, the PKer will have to pay a hefty price for my "super duper gadget". Or go through a middleman, encouraging more commerce.

 

But the again. Reputation AND Trauma are a double whammy for the PKer. They're marking themselves as someone that should be attacked, which means they're gonna die a lot more than the builder

 

In EVE, the bounty system was added as a way for carebears  High-Sec people, to "punish" PKers.

 

Guess what, it's now a badge of honor. People started PKing MORE, to get a higher bounty on their heads, to the point the EVE devs had to add "killrings" essentially, selling your right on killing your attacker to people who may want to farm them.

 

A reputation system would just tell PKers "oh boy, I get to become notorious? I better farm them newbies then harder, I don't want to be left behind in reputation. I better kill everything I see".

 

See the problem with griding repuatation bars?

 

Also, the PvP in DU - if what the devs are saying is indeed accurate - is not like in a korean MMO or any WoW clone. You don't get "stronger", you only get efficient. Each class has its strengths and weaknessess.

 

Huge guns? Low accuracy on moving targets, as they are cumbersome. But against slow targets? They are much better at hittign them. So, you won't have someone "pwning" you with "mad crits yo, look, I crit what you hit nab, I got EdgeLord's Unholy Wristrazor of the Emo Squeaker +1000". If you are out mining, do it with your organisation or friends. Don't go solo, it's a team game. Also, the fact ammunition is part of the game, also means that people would be wasting money for nothing, if you were just on your starting gear out mining. They would literally, get NOTHING out of killing you, not a bounty, not loot, and certainly not a good fight, which is the mai nreason people in EVE mostly do pirating, as these days you can make mad banks by doing pretty much, anything else.

 

Also, griefing won't stop, with or without Trauma. Trauma only ensures people are more cautious when outside. And it makes the PKer, as you said, rethink being a douchebag, as that bounty on their head, means they may end up with percentual decrease on skillpoints generation on their passive skll training in the game - and that sucks for some people, have to earn skillpoints slower.

 

As I said, it's something that can bring something into many aspects of the game. If the devs add something like Trauma, it would satisfy both PvP and RP people, not to mention, making hospitals and bars a thing, as different attributes could need different ways of removing trauma on them.

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Talk about conginitvie dissonance, when an alliance has a person, who has Excellent Status, tagged as "Hostile" .  If a guy has 10:1 ratio on Positive to Negative individual tags, then you know your alliance may be full of bullcrap

Or the Factional Warfare overview that sets corp/alliance and factional relationship over sec status. Lots of pirates in FW.

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Long time since I've been on! Twerk has gotten big lol. Can confirm. Am pirate in most space games. Reputation sometimes means more than even money, cause it means you aren't a pussy pirate and actually kill things (I will admit that I only get lucky from time to time)

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Long time since I've been on! Twerk has gotten big lol. Can confirm. Am pirate in most space games. Reputation sometimes means more than even money, cause it means you aren't a pussy pirate and actually kill things (I will admit that I only get lucky from time to time)

In EVE, I pirate in the sense of ninja stealing loot from carebears PvE people - so I'm more of a thief than a yarr???

 

But yeah, I don't really bother with reputation. It can fuel my ego, but if I was to be caught and killed I would at least have to takea break rather than hop into a new ship and go out again.

 

This idea of a Trauma I brought up, is similar to EVE's Jump Fatigue. If you Jump to a far system, you get two timer,s one that lasts for 1 minute and one that lasts for 20 mintes. The short timer is for when you can execute a jump again. The longer tiemr is that, if you were to jump again within that timer, the next timer would stack up even higher on both timers.

 

So, you could end up with a timer of 1000 hours if you were to execute jumps over and over the moment the ticker went to zero, eventuallly being able to execute another jump, but at the cost of having a no-jump timer of a day - colloqually referred to "Jump Fatigue stacked to oblivion". (Hauler ships have benefits to reduce that, but those benefits would not apply for a Trauma mechnaism).

 

And this is what I'm referring to. Having two de-buffs more or less, with the doctor players "reducing" the effects of the "don't die again till the clock resets" timer.

 

If it was a reputation ticker that was to be penalised, all pirates would be going like "wait... am I rewarded for being a dick?????? Let's go! Grind plebes till we hit some Notorious levels of a ticker! :D "

 

While my suggestion makes them go like " okay guys, take a half an hour break, grab a drink, waiit till the Battle Fatigue expires" (Battle Fatigue being the long timer of No-Death-Within-This-Time and Trauma being the Effieciency-Reduced timer).

 

 

I mean, sure, I like being the a-hole in games, but I like it to be challenging. If I don't got a risk in it, it ain't fun. And having to hide from ACTUALLY GOOD bounty hunters because I pissed a lot of people who pooled resources together for operation : Eternal Trauma Timer on Twerk? That's some emergent activity that makes the game alive.

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Very nice idea.  Personally I'd make the penalty a little more punishing - say [ 5 * (times of death) / 100 ].  That makes running back to continue fighting a battle after dying a couple of times a much more difficult decision to make.  Plus it makes drugs a much more tempting prospect if you do hit 25% debuff to all stats.  Anything that makes player-led prohibition and smuggling a possibility deserves a look.  

 

Or you could have different penalty equations for different types of stats.

 

But that's all just numbers/tweaking, I think the core idea is great.

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There could always be an addiction level to any kind of medicine to treat the trauma meaning that if you were to die often and keep using the medicine to reduce/remove the effects then you would end up with a longer lasting harder to remove debuff as a withdrawal from the medicine used to treat the battle fatigue, this could help because it would mean that the player would have to decide whether to wait the original debuff out or to get it sorted by a doctor and risk getting addicted. I think this would still be relevant later in the game aswell because once organisations are built up more then most would be able to remove the battle fatigue quite easily and so by having the possibility for an addiction would still allow both the trauma and hospitals to exist and allow for further emerging gameplay.

 

As always just an idea.

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There could always be an addiction level to any kind of medicine to treat the trauma meaning that if you were to die often and keep using the medicine to reduce/remove the effects then you would end up with a longer lasting harder to remove debuff as a withdrawal from the medicine used to treat the battle fatigue, this could help because it would mean that the player would have to decide whether to wait the original debuff out or to get it sorted by a doctor and risk getting addicted. I think this would still be relevant later in the game aswell because once organisations are built up more then most would be able to remove the battle fatigue quite easily and so by having the possibility for an addiction would still allow both the trauma and hospitals to exist and allow for further emerging gameplay.

 

As always just an idea.

 

I like this idea. This could also tie into the smuggling aspect, as some orgs might want to force their members to just wait out the original debuff so as not to risk force attrition due to addiction, but members might want to skip that and just take the quick and dirty route. 

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Because our friendly neighborhood kitten linked this thread yesterday I wanted to chip in.

 

I dont really care about the specifics of a trauma mechanic right now. But I do care that some kind of trauma mechanic or battle fatigue exists. Its quite possible that with the way rezz nodes are set up zerging wont be such an issue but I still would like to see death being meaningful.

 

I feel as a "victim" loosing loot etc. is enough punishment. But when it comes to war I'm not sure its enough to prevent zerging. Ideally I would want an elegant solution but on the other hand I would like an intelligent system that can identify context. Though that aint happening soon most likely.

 

Perhaps something like stacking debuffs to discourage zerging. And a cantina mechanic to get rid of the debuff faster.

 

In essence I feel there needs to be some kind of solution to make death meaningful enough to prevent zerging.

 

Then again zerging is a tactic on its own despite any personal feelings I might have about it. Its a pickle aint it. :(

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Because our friendly neighborhood kitten linked this thread yesterday I wanted to chip in.

 

I dont really care about the specifics of a trauma mechanic right now. But I do care that some kind of trauma mechanic or battle fatigue exists. Its quite possible that with the way rezz nodes are set up zerging wont be such an issue but I still would like to see death being meaningful.

 

I feel as a "victim" loosing loot etc. is enough punishment. But when it comes to war I'm not sure its enough to prevent zerging. Ideally I would want an elegant solution but on the other hand I would like an intelligent system that can identify context. Though that aint happening soon most likely.

 

Perhaps something like stacking debuffs to discourage zerging. And a cantina mechanic to get rid of the debuff faster.

 

In essence I feel there needs to be some kind of solution to make death meaningful enough to prevent zerging.

 

Then again zerging is a tactic on its own despite any personal feelings I might have about it. Its a pickle aint it. :(

The thing is, this mechanism is derived and adapted from EVE's "Jump Fatigue" mechanism. Where if you were to commit jump (travelling to another system without using a stargate) you get two timers, Jump Fatigue and Cooldown. As long as Jump Fatigue is up, your next Jump will double the Cooldown AND will extend the Jump Fatigue timer - to an event called Jump Fatigue Stacked to Oblivion. It may sound "punishing" but it's also negligible if you do not die within the Fatigue timer's period again. Like in EVE, if you take one or two jumps consequently, you won't be stacked really hard - like an hour of Fatigue. But if you do Jumps on Cooldown, until the point the cooldowns reach 30 minutes each, then you get the hint that "I should stop Jumping now, let the ...two days timer wear off...".

 

Zerging will be pevented by other means, like logistical support with armors and weapons, the Fatigue simply makes PvP have a "weight" to it, as your Avatar in-game is not some uberman that can fight forever and ever without feeling any sort of agony. It's an RPG. Let RPG things happen :P

 

P.S. : Assassins could take specific contracts that stack the Fatigue timer more, so there, you have a good reason to avoid assassins.

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As your Avatar in-game is not some uberman that can fight forever and ever without feeling any sort of agony. It's an RPG. Let RPG things happen :P

I am fully behind that statement. ;)

Stuff like this is always tricky because "people" tend to be risk averse.

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I am fully behind that statement. ;)

Stuff like this is always tricky because "people" tend to be risk averse.

Too bad, the game is about Risk and Reward, JC Baillie has said so. Having more depths in risk, is always good in my opinion.

 

If a rich player gets killed, no biggie, they can buy their super expensive specialist armor off the market right away. Their ship got blown? No biggie, they got the money to field 10 of those ships like the one they lost.

 

But Trauma mechanics care not for your wallet's capacity. Trauma is universal. Or in such a case as the aforementioned mechanism, the rich player can remove the Traumna from their person, but still, they waste MORe money to do so, which makes the economy gorw - which is something optional to begin with in my suggestio :P . Having people roll a medic class and sticking to it, is always good, rather than having an industrialist mass producing "Magical Solution for Trauma". It's an RPG, as I said before. RPG stuff include RP stuff. :P

 

I mean, I'd have a blast being the asshole doctor of a small town. "So wee fella, how come your Trauma ticker is 15 days? Were the first 10 mines not a clue to stop going back to that place?"

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I mean, I'd have a blast being the asshole doctor of a small town. "So wee fella, how come your Trauma ticker is 15 days? Were the first 10 mines not a clue to stop going back to that place?"

Hehe yes and you know some guy is going to be like 'We dont serve your kind here, oooh snap someone is going to die today. :D

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Hehe yes and you know some guy is going to be like 'We dont serve your kind here, oooh snap someone is going to die today. :D

People have started wars in EVE for much more petty things than bigotry . And people can't even walk around on stations for people to make fun of the things they wear.

 

I mean, I had a guy stalk me in over 5 systems in EVE for asking him "how long did it take you to make your toon look like Keanu Reeves?".

 

Now add some spiffy vanity clothing in-game, and you know people will just start fights over the silliest of things.

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*snip*

Now add some spiffy vanity clothing in-game, and you know people will just start fights over the silliest of things.

Hahaha....

 

I can picture it already!

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On 22/10/2016 at 4:11 PM, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

...
The TL ; DR version


...

Forgive me for ressurecting and old thread, I didn't want to start a new one on this topic - I think this is a fantastic idea with huge potential for medical and other support/social roles.

 

As you say, it branches out in so many directions. If anything, it draws traffic into player made cities.

 

Personally I would make it a priority to play some kind of medical role!

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