captured ships and selfdestruct

[Anaximander]

I am going to throw my two cents in quickly before Twerkmotor spontaneously combusts.

 

I agree there should be a way to effectively "Scorched Earth" your ship, either through self destruct or EMP pulse that fries every computer system making the ship worthless. Scrap can still be collected, but the ship cannot be used (can't add more blocks on to it?

 

I also agree on the fact that you should be able to stop the process when you are attacking, where my favourite skill 'Hacking' (maybe have it as a skill group? Have things like forgery, systems access, cyber-warfare etc.) comes into play. You hack the ship to stop it from exploding/EMPing itself and by doing so, disable the ship. This means that if you activate the self destruct, and the attacker stops it, you become a sitting duck due to your ship being shut down (maybe have it rebooting? so on a timer?).

 

I am completely fine with people self destructing, just so long as there is a way to stop it (hacking minigame against the clock?) and that larger ships take longer to explode.

 

In terms of respawn debuffs, this sounds like a good idea and it would allow for many more professions. Maybe have different healing techniques, so for physical skill damage you have a doctor, for mental skill damage you might go to a bar, maybe have different methods for each skill group. You might also be able to get buffs from these activites. With this, you could make the timers last quite a while, and it would mean that a capital ship will have a sickbay, mess hall, quarters etc. to help get respawned crew members back on their feet quicker.

Well, a core's overload should be linked to its stats, not the size of the ship per se. A Tier 10 Power Core for example, takes 5 minutes to overload, depending on how fast it can pump fuel in it (how often it produces Power for the ship in gameplay terms). This way, a slower refresh power core that outputs more Power into the ship, takes longer to overload, but in return, it has a much greater blast radius and / or damage. A timer also buys time for the attackers to steer clear off of the overloading ship and the crew to defend themselves if they are boarded and have time to win and shut down the Core Overload. Think of it like a match on CS : GO. In this case, the Core OVerloading is the C4 and its timer is the same exact mechanism. Either shut down the Core Overload and secure the Core Unit, or die trying.

 

EMPing your ship, should not work that way. My idea given the things the Devs said, is that if a ship is in bad condition when you blow up its Core Unit (not the Power Core), the ship loses its voxel grid and the blueprint associated with it, as the Core Unit is a memory voxel for things like owenrship, repair grid parameters and all stuff.

 

What you suggest can be done by the ship's captain, just not via EMP, to ensure the DPU and the Lua script won't fall to anyone's hands (And it's a good thing that should happen). But, if the ships is heavily damaged and you put a new core unit into it, you don't get a repair function. For the new Core Unit, the blocks it detects being attached to it are additions to its local grid. So, yeah, salvaging will be worth it if a ship's in bad condition and can't be repaired anymore due to its Core Unit that held the blueprint being gone.

 

Personally, I'll be booby trapping my Core Unit. If poop flies too south, I'll scuttle my ship as it is. Set a Core OVerload and blow up the Core Unit with one key. If I manage to survive a boarding operation, then I can always reapply my Core Unit with the blueprint associated to the ship and repair it. If not, them punks get nothing.  

 

EMP should be for electronics, like stopping DPUs from operating Lua scripts and stopping turrets from firing or locking on a target. EMP could also be a good tool against enemy shields, so there's that utility as well, being effective against shields. That being said, Power Cores are Elements, so they need DPUs. If a ship though has shielded DPUs within an EMP insolating material grid, it may prove tricky to stop the overload with one EMP. It may take many until the insolating voxels are rendered useless and the DPUs do shutdown. Plus, it would be awesome if the Power Core was contained in a sorta plastic cylinder that protects it but also gives the aesthetic of the crew being protected by its radiation and all that.

 

Also, anything in the game is editable as long as they don't belong to a Core Unit's grid that doesn't belong to you. That's why Territory Units are not called Super Core Units. They operate differently. 

 

As for the different damage different therapy, yeah, it could be a thing I guess.

 

Physical attributesl ike Strength, Agility, Endurace need doctors.

Mental atributes like Memory, Intelligence, Perception and Charisma need alcohol ( bars ) or anything else.

 

For the heck of it, I would suggest scars as well, leaving up the option for a plastic surgeon gameplay, where plastic surgeons can even allow you to change you appearence altogether, because we need barbers  I don't want to be stuck with the same look forever, but that's just an afterthought, not a real integral part of the PvP or is a crucial feature of the game.

 

I mean, I would take Perception loss if it gave me an eye-patch in return >.>

 

it opens up more venues for gameplay that way indeed.

[Anaximander]

*Hands flame retardant screen, to Mr.Jaco.*

 

I have to agree, and I also think there should be components that could add an e-warfare playstyle.  Therefore, not only would skills impact the ability to hack and mess around with systems, but the ship setup as well.  Perhaps increasing the range in which you can take down a system, or the speed at which it can be accomplished.  

 

Same goes for personal goods of course, higher quality terminal devices would increase efficiency as well.  If you're hackin' it at the gate

 

E-warfare has been flaunted as being a possibility in Star Citizen.  If it's done well in Dual Universe AND Star Citizen... I will be one happy camper.  It's just not something that has been considered in space games before, really.  At least not in my experience.

Now you're talking sense. Devs have said that Territory Units can be HACKED. So yeah, cyberwarfare is kind of a thing I guess? They also allude given the lore behind the safezones, that what keeps us from killing each other, is a signal that interacts with our brain implants that pacifies us, so a hacker would be the equivalent of a wizard, being invisible to the field, possibly even providing us with an actual stealth gameplay we trained in Hitman for all these years.

 

As of ship E-Warfare, can't see how that can be implemented from a ship's perspective. Maybe having relays that  interact with the enemy's sensors, hence making a ship invisible in their radars, or in a tactical fleet role, a ship that can reduce the hit chance of enemy ships, with the enemy ships having the option to "reboot" their system that makes them inert for a moment or two, to cleanse the system of the virus or worms the enemy sent them.

 

And yes, Control Units (screens, cockpits, etcetera), should be more difficult depending on their Tier. So buying a ship, would actually involve you looking what it is outfitted with to justify the price.

 

A ship with full Tier 10 Elements for example, would be quite powerful and quite safe hacking-wise. But it would be also quite epensive.

[Hotwingz]

So the topic is drifting a bit, maybe make a new thread to discuss electronic warfare and the healing mechanic ideas?

 

On the topic of healing battle wounds, JC said they could do a "social" expansion if the community wants it. Adding bars and shell shock healing would fit in such an expansion, in my opinion.

[mrjacobean]

...So, yeah, salvaging will be worth it if a ship's in bad condition and can't be repaired anymore due to its Core Unit that held the blueprint being gone.

Well, there is a reason Pirate ships look like they just strapped pieces of metal to a damaged ship. 

[Anaximander]

Well, there is a reason Pirate ships look like they just strapped pieces of metal to a damaged ship. 

Because... fashion? >.>

 

So the topic is drifting a bit, maybe make a new thread to discuss electronic warfare and the healing mechanic ideas?

 

On the topic of healing battle wounds, JC said they could do a "social" expansion if the community wants it. Adding bars and shell shock healing would fit in such an expansion, in my opinion.

Well, the social expansion would include things like non-utility clothings and a deepr character builder body wise. The shell-shock would be more of a deterrent for PvP, so it's tied primariliy to the AvA combat and on the healer gameplay.

[Kurock]

Some good discussions here (between the trolling). I like the idea of self destructing ships and ways to prevent it as already outlined.

 

Though it has been indicated that the reason JC does not want ramming in the game is not only because of voxel deformation but to prevent "missile ships". I don't see self destructing ships affecting anything else for the same reason. Sure they can be made expensive but for a large corporation how expensive can a small ship really be, without making small ships out of reach for the average player?

[Anaximander]

Some good discussions here (between the trolling). I like the idea of self destructing ships and ways to prevent it as already outlined.

 

Though it has been indicated that the reason JC does not want ramming in the game is not only because of voxel deformation but to prevent "missile ships". I don't see self destructing ships affecting anything else for the same reason. Sure they can be made expensive but for a large corporation how expensive can a small ship really be, without making small ships out of reach for the average player?

Small ship, small reactor, small radius, not so much damage. For it to be efficient, it will have to be a paper-armor ship, thus, focused down easily, if you mean the collision mechanism I proposed. 

 

Just because something can explode, it does not mean it will be able to take out a battleship in one go. So the costs pile up. Also, production lines. You seem to assume a faction will own factories, will have its own quarries, its dedicated builders. That's not the case. People in those orgs, will be in a faction for the trading convention established in said alliance / empire. And those ships will be quite the cost, a cost that does not warrantee their usefulness as a tactic.

 

There's a reason japanese airmen in WW2 went kamikaze with their planes, but not with their cruisers and no, let's leave "honor" and all that aside. It was because a plane was cheaper than a ship back then. They were made out of wood :|

 

And yes, my suggestion for the Collision Core Overloading was an afterthought, not an actual thing I see coming, not because people will go kamikaze, but most people are bad drivers on a road, let alone good pilots ina 6DoF game. I've played Planetside 2, I've seen bad pilots, as well as in many other space games.

 

A ship self-destructing, as the AMA said, will be able to take out enemies and the core reason it can't be used for kamikaze atacks, is that when the Power Core begins overloading, it stops feeding power to the ship, if you meant you can overload a core and pilot thee ship ont o a target and then again, it's space, you can move left and right and if the go fast, they can't turn fast enough either, because mass and spped equal more mass.

 

 

 

To reiterate, normal Power Core function :

 

Fuel => Core => Power build-up => Power output to the ship

 

Overload function :

 

Fuel => Core => Power build-up => No power output => Overloading percent until it goes boom.

 

This makes ships that overload unable to accelerate, hence, maneuver. It's a scuttle mechanic, to ensure your ship won't fall to the enemy's hands, especially if it's a military grade ship, you don't want your enemies to see how you built a ship, at least  not without going into espionage territories. If an enemy is caught within the blast radius because they are either foolish or daring to think they can take over the ship before it goes boom, that's their fault, not the devs, same way SCAMMING is not the Devs fault, but those who fell for it.

 

If the Devs don't want collision damage this way, that collisions make the Core Overload with fuel depending on ships' mass and acceleration / speed, I won't be much bothered, but it would become really silly when a starfighter glances off of a battleship unscathed, not to say totally unrealistic. 

 

But in any case, modularity is a good thing. If they decide to add collision the way I think of it, the overload mechanism would be there to tweak into the physics engine, not to mention, crashing onto planets will be a far more harrowing experience.

[Kurock]

All good points. Same points can be used for ramming: small ships do minimal damage while larger ones are more substantial but hurt themselves too, so a ramming ship could be usable but only once, because it's front fell off on the first impact. Sacrifices in the reality department will be (and has already) be made to make the game function as a MMO. Small starships bouncing off massive space stations, I am not entirely happy with, but I can live with it. Overloads would be nice, but if they hurt no one else but it's own ship, I can live with that too.

[Anaximander]

All good points. Same points can be used for ramming: small ships do minimal damage while larger ones are more substantial but hurt themselves too, so a ramming ship could be usable but only once, because it's front fell off on the first impact. Sacrifices in the reality department will be (and has already) be made to make the game function as a MMO. Small starships bouncing off massive space stations, I am not entirely happy with, but I can live with it. Overloads would be nice, but if they hurt no one else but it's own ship, I can live with that too.

Not exactly.

 

A battleship ramming a light cruiser, will destroy that ship - if hit in the right angle in relevance to the cruiser's center of mass- by overloading its power core, but the battleship will suffer a HEAVY Core Overload as well and be even left at the mercy of the ensueing explosion. If they GRIND each other, they suffer lesser core overload. No voxel editing needs to be calculated in the process. Voxels are unaffected by contacting each other. Just the Power Cores themselves. And you got to remember that battleships have very powerful guns on them. If a ship is in a b-line towards them, they will be turned to scrap before even getting near the battleship. Plus, shields are also there to protect from the possible ship exploding onto the battleship, that has more power cores, hence, more leverage on how much collision it can take ,as there's not just ONE power core that needs to pump out more power to the shields but plenty.

 

But yeah, if there's a planet-crashing method for constructs, so ships blow up if they hit the surface (which SHOULD be in the game), they can extrapolate a method for ships to blow up if there's a significant mass difference between them via the core overload metho.d

[AccuNut]

Just a thought on the damage dealt from a self-destruct via core overload: the damage radius will be smaller in space than in an atmosphere.

The reason is that in space there will be a minimal shockwave because there are very few particles in space for the force to be imparted to. A big part of the damage done from an explosion is caused by the concussive shockwave it produces, so, less shockwave, smaller damage bubble.

In space, the damage will be primarily based on the heat and energy released by the explosion, with perhaps some shock damage if you are close to the ship, since the ships explosion is adding some particles to the immediate area that could support a comcussive wave.

 

In the atmosphere, the oxygen and other gasses that compose it allow for a greater reach in terms of concussive shock, since they are a form of particulate matter, making for a larger/more powerful shockwave.

 

Anyway, that is how I see it, but I am by no means a particle physicist, so take it for what it's worth.