Warden
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Posts posted by Warden
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My suggestion, as stated prior unless this becomes problematic in the eyes of NQ: keep it as it is unless you want to rebrand everything (visually).
You explained your reasoning and that should suffice. If this arises on the community side in the future, having a disclaimer or pointing to this (not this, but yours of course) post might do the trick. I see no issue in this case and from an in-character POV it is also no biggie in this case, with many more decades and millenia in the future. Maybe simply because it's not that known or questionable like a swastika look-alike.
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Interestingly, every (present-day) higher German sergeant has that symbol (looks just like the rune) as rank thingie on the shoulders. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauptfeldwebel_(rank)
No implication, just an observation or as "fun fact".
As for the posts above, I think ODY never had particular implied intentions or affiliations so I'd rather shrug it off or clarify (if I were in their shoes) because that seems easier than to rebrand everything visually. In terms of work effort and keeping a visually established brand, I mean.
But that depends on how many other people (in the future) draw that connection and consider it problematic.
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Hi,
I'd actually suggest to take part in the forums as it is THE place to establish (lasting) business relations, contacts and to find potential friends.
While everyone might have specific reasons, I think generally staying away might be a potential disadvantage.
In other words you might be "out of the loop". Sometimes the best future opportunities pop up here, especially before a playable or finished game.
But they don't stay forever.
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Oh, how I wish I would get things (resources, money) out of thin air in life...
But sadly, it won't happen
Everything has to come from somewhere and sticking to that as far as possible is one of the reasons people will be attracted to Dual Universe ?
Whatever you will receive, money or material, will have some history. It was obtained from someone. Maybe mined or stolen. You get the picture.
Let's not water this down with rewards out of thin air, I'd say. Besides as prior posters said, who defines good and bad, something highly subjective to begin with?
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Hi there.
I mostly wonder how new folks feel. Can you describe it? Is it like an excitement in the air you can touch? Like ... (no) pun intended ... fireworks going off?
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9 hours ago, CoreVamore said:
lol still not sure what type of masochist is going to voluntarily get themselves locked up......
Those who deem it necessary.
If you did something that banned you from entry or services at a certain place or faction that you could need because many others go there for business or whatever, you might think twice about redeeming yourself.
Likewise, if you really annoyed a faction and they keep sending people after you, you might also consider going through certain punishments to make them stop, as listed earlier in my examples.
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46 minutes ago, CoreVamore said:
And your prisoner could have many more affiliations and power behind him/her and wipe said lawmakers from their tile to be free. Forced imprisonment can work both ways...... do you really want to take that risk?
This could be possible, but can not always be guaranteed, especially if you break laws in a larger player nation, empire, state, whatever. Not everyone can snip their fingers and then or later bring a force of comparable size, and even then out of those players who could do so in theory, not all of those responding factions will risk a war if it can't be outright won - over a trivial matter such as, say, insults, speeding, whatever.
And if it can't be forced through game mechanics, it can still be severely suggested or suggestive through voluntary sentences or sentences that are tied to certain conditions, such as "If you want us to step sending people after you you have to ..."
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30 minutes ago, Kael said:
How would I deserve it? Who decides what is wrong and what is right?
My in-game laws say I can kill/loot anyone and/or thing on sight without needing a reason. Are you going against my laws? That makes you in the wrong, off to jail you go!
Only you can answer "How would I deserve it" as this depends on your actions and the subjective wrongdoing you inflict upon others from their or a general POV.
The "house owner" defines the laws and regulations on any owned turf or even not-owned turf. Or regardless of formally owned turf or not if they can project a certain influence, force and enforcement in that area.
You will most likely see this happen or be a relevant aspect on claimed territory however, as it's usually the easiest or most obvious way where other entities (the owners) can define rules.
My initial point, with that in mind, is: Sometimes it might be better to go through a certain type of (still bearable) punishment for some law or rule infraction than try to start a long conflict you could lose or not benefit from in the long run
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More simplified, mind what turf you are on as certain regulations can apply there and not following / breaking them could "justify" punishment X.
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11 hours ago, Kael said:
You best believe that if someone tried to 'imprison' me I'm calling in every last reinforcement and favour to destroy every single one of them involved.
And if any of them survive then a hefty bounty will be placed on their heads.
Diverge that!
What if you technically deserve(d) it or if this attempt might be counter-productive?
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The more I think about this, the more I like the idea of "voluntary prison sentences" that can work regardless of coded-in (or otherwise practical executions of this through work-arounds) jailing mechanics.
While this usually only works if the "prisoner" has some incentive to go through with it on your terms, it would prevent their friends from trying to bust them out. As that would result in nothing or a reset of the prior actions such as being hunted or banned from entry or services.
Less abstract: you did something bad and a faction does any of the following or a combination of these:
Ban you from services, add hefty custom fees to services, badmouth you, prevent or restrict entry, actively hunt you within their jurisdiction/borders or beyond, etc.
If this becomes a nuisance to you, you could redeem yourself through "prison sentences" and unique demands to get a (mostly) clean slate or new chance, reduced threat category, etc.
Some could demand you stare at a wall for X time, others send you in a work camp, others might simply not chose those 'classic' punishments and demand that you bring them a certain sum of money or amount of resources.
Just as idea for all you groups out there, prison mechanics or not. Ideally we also get to see limited "forced" prison mechanics under the right conditions on faction turf in my book.
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I think there are sufficient ways to add a balanced limited jail system to empower factions.
Before we kill potentially too much time on thoughts and debate, I wonder if NQ is intending something remotely comparable at all or not at all, or if it would now depend on the arguments.
A few hours tops at a certain materialistic price for the "jailer" sounds reasonable to me if there might also be a weekly limit of jail time per user for that faction to prevent indefinite or very pronged holding. Give fixed rates and capped timers for compromise while potentially allowing suicide at the loss of all items.
I'm theory no one forces you to interact with factions who have the ability to jail on their turf,or no one forces repeat interactions or stay there anyway after it goes South.
Still, I think we won't see hard coded jail systems, soft or not. Just saying, I guess it could work.
You know what still works? "Voluntary prisons". A what, you ask?
Simple. What remains with no formal or implemented jail system, more or less? You have to ban people from services, entry and/or shoot them. If they want to redeem themselves and regain your favor you can offer jail times on your own terms, forced labor under supervision, etc. But this can't be forced or not much. I'd prefer soft built-in jail mechanics though. Just saying, though: prisons can or will still be useful depending on your faction or influence. On another note, prison mechanics or not, no one forces you to just build tiny boring cells. You can create a whole hazard course, maze, riddle challenge, testing course or more to make it interesting or to shorten the time.
PS: I hate typing on mobile.
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This seems to be the "hot iron" many games (or their devs, respectively) won't touch because it could annoy or "piss off players" whereas it is more normal in other games or game modes.
If you also want to cover police aspects or elements of slavery this is must-have in my eyes however. The key is balanced mechanics. A potentially too hard system could be seen in the Minecraft civcraft server where players could be captured in a twilight dimension while their "soul" was bound to the overworld pearl. Problem: holding a player does not burn much "fuel" and to release a player you had to have the pearl. So what do people do? They capture someone and put the pearl in secure storage where others can hardly reach it. In short you could be held weeks, maybe a month or longer before you could consider appeals through a higher instance such as server admins as it was simply part of the server and game play.
A more controlled system you see in Arma 3 or Space Station 13 where player police or security can put you into prison temporarily. These sentences were often limited, on a minute basis. At best you'd sit in it for 10 to 30 minutes depending on offense.
What would I propose, how could it work in DU?
1) I would not mind an A3/SS13 like system with limited sentences that everyone should be able to live with as they are time capped, often through built-in timers.
2) How this could be implemented or rather work in DU is a tougher question. If you have a general capture mechanic for players I sense abuse or indefinite holding if you can just put someone in a room or cell with no (easy) way out. And if the player has no way out on his or her own, either through tools or commands.
At best i can currently see domestic prisons work that only work on player run tiles or faction owned tiles where you can place actual cell units (complete item given by devs) where you can place (misbehaving) players for a limited time. In the context of DU 10 minutes are a joke so it could be a bit more on average, but not exceeding 1 day or so. Or half a day. Or a quarter. A third. Fifth? You get the idea. As it is faction run you also do not have to go there if you don't like how they handle things on their turf like taxes or punishments.
Binding this mechanic to faction controlled tiles (Alioth could also be excluded from this) prevents "griefing" all over while making things interesting on faction turf with some sort of local punishment system.
At least, that is my ideal "solution" or compromise but you can bet we won't see prison mechanics.
Because "hot iron".
- MookMcMook and Lethys
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Just for science or as "nice to know": are you willing to share how many orgs ads or invitations you received so far?
Hi BTW!
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You know or see dedication when folks make a Radio station. Let's just underline that for a moment.
A radio station.
You just don't see this for any type of game and this has a lot of potential, but surely requires a "long breath" as we surely look for years of usage here.
Regardless I hope that NQ realizes these community efforts and benefit through mentioning it at one point. Cross promotion, kinda?
At least I see "people creating radio stations" as good selling point for this sandbox game. Win/win.
- yamamushi, LittleJoe, Comrademoco and 1 other
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Simple: If we can add it, we should.
I'm actually not fond of the MMORPG mechanics where you have a general level system and "stronger and weaker" mobs - I always found it unrealistic having to "shoot down energy bars", sometimes for minutes or a longer time when facing "boss mobs".
But then again, I prefer more realistic gameplay or combat mechanics, tab-targeting or not. If we do get to have creatures and other hazards such as "bandit NPCs", combat should feel "natural" in my opinion, however possible.
I simply think having fauna obstacles adds more complexity and threats to some landscapes where cooperation or creative extermination or containment methods can bring you forward - or keep you occupied. If there is no time to think about it now, the topic can surely be put on the table again once a large portion of the game is working as intended.
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1 hour ago, Forodrim said:
The starter Planet has 50,862 claimable 1km2 tiles. I would think that is pretty huge.
I missed this, thanks for the reference, that is good to know.
Now, assuming this will either stay that way, increase or at least roughly stay the same, it means that basically every organization* has the chance to claim a piece out in space (if not on the starter planet, then elsewhere).
Seems like good news to me all in all meaning you can likely have an organizational presence on the starting planet, even if some might still rush for subjectively good spots.
*I draw this conclusion because another certain space game has around 50,000 player organizations (a bit less, maybe then 50k or more by release) - so for starters in DU we'd have to have 50,000 player organizations before we'd have to worry about claiming one tile on the starting planet. Additional assessment: not all of the 50,000 orgs might be eligible for / able to claim a tile or keep it over a longer time, so organizations owning several tiles would possibly keep the average even or not be a problem in the calculation
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I think I might be.
I suppose we'll see how it will be later then. So far the models shown seem subjectively somewhat limited in size, as everything is limited. The "zoom-ins" on the planets in the trailers and whatnot give a rough indication on size and you then just have to think that ten thousand players are on there. But then again it's surely all just placeholders and it will grow in size. Or maybe I mistake the dimensions that are already there, but I'm fairly certain it wasn't big enough yet.
To compare, the generated Minecraft world was often said to be roughly 8 times of Earth - but no one would ever really utilize it for obvious reasons, given the dedicated servers, limited numbers and more unstable situation should players run in all directions and keep generating map pieces.
With tens of thousands of players each world has to be huge to allow for resources to be obtained from it even after years, I suppose. In addition they're ideally also deep so you don't have to expand much or not as fast horizontally. From what I heard or read, it appears to be deeper than MC.
But it's all just guesswork for me at this point and I do not want to really worry about it. We'll see the dimensions again or better (or with changes) as things progress and as we get closer to a working Beta or full release. A lot can happen until then.
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10 hours ago, Vellnn said:
Minecraft doesn't have resources that regenerate, and they seem to be doing fine.
Considering Alioth is going to be much deeper than a minecraft world, I can't imagine that running out of ore in the game would become a problem.The comparison isn't completely bad but still lacking in my view because the ultimate player count is limited due to dedicated servers. While I did play on a civcraft server that has been going for years with many player slots in the usual area of 15k x 15k and I can't remember how bad or good it was (I think you still found them despite large areas of the underground being hollow like giant caverns or on that server they did slowly regen), we have to keep the dimensions of DU in mind.
Single shard. All in the same world. A starting planet and systems. We look at potentially tens of thousands of players active at a time and most want resources at one point.
If the universe will be big enough this won't matter much in the grand scale but on a local level, you might just see a lot of resource depletion after a while or even fast.
Just look at our planet ?
Space and resources are not endless. But demand pretty much is. With no mild regeneration and or ways of recycling, you might face problems at one point. Like we do in reality, eventually.
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Will that come with bags if you have to puke?
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2 minutes ago, NanoDot said:
I can think of one major reason to work with others in the absence of "bad guys": Time !
On my own, do I want to derp around for 6 months waiting for my avatar to train all the skills needed so I can spend the next 3 months building a stargate ?
Working with others will get me to that next system in a fraction of the time...
Groups and co-operation get things done MUCH faster than solo players, and certain features can be designed in such a way that only groups can achieve them in any reasonable time frame.
Who'll be the first to slap down a TCU on that tile containing the big gold deposit ? A group or a solo player ?
Who'll be the first to build an impressive city ?
Who'll be the first to build a network of refuelling stations throughout the system ?
Non-combat games are quite possible, I played "A Tale in the Desert" with great enjoyment...
The collaborative effort is basically always superior, I think. If you try hard you might come up with examples, but in terms of building or sharing tasks and the workload, you are at a disadvantage as loner or small group compared to the people with more manpower ... and planning.
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In competitive somewhat more detailed or 'advanced' settings, you usually always have some sort of logistical component added or at least might have it easier if you keep that component in mind, no matter how soft or hard it might be implemented into gameplay.
Again, reality can give plenty of examples on how useful or vital this is.
In other words, no aspiring expanding faction can afford to ignore logistics. Being "heavy" on the logistics side at least implies they have that aspect covered, assuming they scale it to their needs and capabilities. But that's mostly unique in the end.
In general or as "rule of thumb", you can't really ignore logistics, whether in business or war and if you do, you'll likely lose against opponents who do mind it and utilize it well. Driving the fuel truck or operating the tanker in space might not be as glorious to many like flying the fighter and being directly involved in combat, but without logistics there usually is no combat - or it does not last long.
Where would your Ideal base be? Poll
in General Discussions
Posted
Ah, that is quite simple, it is [redacted].
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In the end, likely multiple "setups", as many can have pros and cons by style or location (and intent) alone. And just "one" might not cut it in the long run here.