Fitorion
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Posts posted by Fitorion
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3 minutes ago, Hades said:
If it doesn't work in real life, why implement it in a game. And those points are most definitely not beside the point.
Because you're trying to make a realistic simulation.
Point of thread: Is Dev interference such as censorship good or bad?
Not the point of the thread: Will Dev interference such as censorship happen? We already know this answer. It's yes.
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13 minutes ago, Hades said:
What the crickey did I just read. Are you telling me that the Jewish community rules the court system?
Hate to break it to you, but many of the morals that correlate with the Judaic and Christian religions are also found in the Quran, and even the Zoroastrian texts. The avevla? Might be spelling it wrong.
No. How could you possibly have gotten that from my post?
So what? that only reinforces my point.
You clearly aren't understanding. (maybe you should actually read the posts...) Real Life = Playing the game. Your fellow Human = Your fellow player. The creator of reality(your god of choice or pure chance I guess) = the devs.
There is nothing inherent in reality that prevents heinous acts... only the responses of the fellow inhabitants of that reality punish it. We have the option of ejecting someone from reality too...
Why can't the same be true of inhabitants of a virtual reality?
(real reasons as I see them: the devs don't trust us with that much power and they open themselves up to too much liability but again these are beside the point.)
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4 minutes ago, Hades said:
And I can tell you now, players being the judge, jury, and executioner on all matters DU... is asinine and more flawed than any punishment system I have ever come across in a game.
And I've played games where the devs showed clear favoritism to different factions.
Your fellow IRL players are judge, jury, and executioner. Judges are fellow humans. The Jury is made up of humans. The executioner is a human. How is this any different?
Whether you are a follower or not you should at least be aware of Judeo-Christian beliefs... The Jews being God's chosen people... how is that not the devs(God) playing favorites?
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1 minute ago, Hades said:
Yeah, that's where you're wrong. A system dealing with out of game punishment needs to be flawless. I didn't even read the rest, I'll be honest.
No one yet has invented a flawless court system yet we accept that.
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2 minutes ago, Hades said:
Good luck getting that to work flawlessly.
Who said it'd be flawless. Freedom is messy. It's also better than all alternatives.
Lets use your sign with adult material example... to demonstrate how I'm thinking of this situation.
I can in the USA make a sign... put adult material on it... and go outside or to any place I want. There is nothing inherent to the reality we inhabit which would prevent me. God does not come down and spite me before I can... He doesn't interfere with my arm muscles when making the sign. No. The thing which prevents me is my own moral code... but lets say I didn't have that. Then the threat of punishment from the other inhabitants of this reality would prevent me... and if I had not fear of that... then nothing would prevent me... Until I was seen and the other inhabitants physically stopped me. It should work exactly the same in game. It won't because we aren't there yet tech wise, trust wise, or legally speaking... but that doesn't change the dream.
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8 hours ago, Hades said:
Just because the world is "sad" and vile, doesn't mean you shouldn't prepare for it and or handle it when the time comes. (if it comes)
If someone plasters beastiality or some other inane junk on a screen... I can imagine there will be consequences. Yes, extreme case. But your call for no censorship states that the screen should stay up.
To me, censorship is only important when we are talking about free speech and the ability to voice concerns in the real world. Censorship is a problem in places like Venezuela, does it matter in a game? No way. Just enjoy the game, let NQ handle things how they see fit.
Matter of fact, NQ has clearly shown the ability to allow discussion on all aspects of the game without censorship... the most important component of free speech. You can voice concerns about different aspects of the game, without retribution.
Just like you can't go outside with a sign plastered with adult material (at least in the US), you shouldn't be able to post a sign with such content in DU.
NQ isn't infringing on any of your rights if they decide to deal out disciplinary actions for inane or malicious content. End of story.
No my call is for the "gods" of the virtual world AKA the devs... to not get involved. And for the people inhabiting that virtual world AKA Us players... to handle it ourselves. Just like any society does in real life.
It would require giving the player base the tools to enforce rules ... up to and including the ability to remove a player from the game permanently.
NQ will probably not be brave enough to do that... and the laws haven't caught up to fully support the hands off approach. But the ultimate goal of simulation games is to fully go hands off and let the players interact.
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5 minutes ago, Hades said:
Agree to disagree I suppose. I think you need to read the rest of the thread though.
It doesn't matter what I find offensive, it matters what NQ will tolerate. I can guarantee some things won't fly if you post them on the multimedia platform as per the last dev blog.
Just as it doesn't matter what I find offensive, it doesn't matter what you think you have the right to do
That's more a statement on the sad state of the world at the moment where the human right to freedom of speech is being attacked in some places... and out right violated in others. This thread is about whether we think Censorship coming from the Devs separate from any player driven game system is good or bad. I say it's bad.
It will occur... it has to due to the sad state of the world... and the particularly restrictive laws where they are based... But that has no barring on the discussion at hand.
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On 4/6/2017 at 1:07 PM, Hades said:
No one should feel disgusted for playing a game.
As for going out and taking things into your own hands... and if you're not part of a group? What if the structure is protected... and you're alone.
NQ has already stated there will be some form of censorship in the game. No specifics afaik, but it's going to be there.
You have no right to not get offended. Differences are part and parcel to being around other people. Don't like it? Go play a single player game.
Now if you are in game and don't like what someone else is doing... gather up your forces and stop them. Don't have a group? make one. Can't get enough other people to agree with you? Perhaps you are the one who's wrong... live with it or leave. Nothing in game is 100% protected. There are ways to deal with anything... if you are willing to expend the effort. If you're not then I guess it wasn't that big of a deal to start with.
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41 minutes ago, Pang_Dread said:
Of course it will but that's also another concern in that the more freedom the game has the more time and resources NQ will need to devote to deal with trolls and griefers.
Yeah of all those old Atari games I think Breakout was what I played most followed by Pacman and Space Invaders. /nerdout
Not if we are given in game tools to deal with trolls and griefers ourselves. Just like in real life... we create organizations... like say the police... to deal with real life trolls and griefers... If in games systems exist that we can use to police such activities then we should be able to do it ourselves.
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Yes you can make stuff like in your picture. I think even the "floating" disconnected bits.
Unless they've changed it back... But ever since that was stated in a video like a year ago... I've been thinking about making Anime Esk ships with wings... weapon mounting points... whatever... that sorta float next to the main body or have gap joints...
I fail at describing things... so it took me a while to find something kinda like what I want to make... Something that isn't this but has that disconnected look.
- Comrademoco, Malice1 and Shockeray
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I can't stand reddit. The user interface there just makes no sense to me. I can't understand how it has grown so big with such a terrible design.
It pains me to go there to attempt to find anything on any particular topic of interest. So I generally don't... I only check out r/SpaceX occasionally...
But If we're going to have a reddit page...
Isn't there a group of volunteer moderators here already? Can one or more of them ... or some new volunteers be added to their number to administer such a page? All Dev interactions should remain on the official forums... with links to the articles or active Q and A threads placed on reddit so those there can come here for the info they seek.
There should be 1 central clearing house for game info. Links to it can be spread around to the various social media. The info should not be piecemealed out all over the place. Though... I guess some fracturing of info is inevitable as interviews are given and posted on the respective sites... I just ask that when such info is available a link is given to it on some sort of official info site so we can find it more easily. I've strayed off topic a bit...
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ok, so I'm a gold package founder, when exactly is it I'm allowed to play/test ? I was under the impression when I first pledged, months ago, it should have started by now?
It would seem that after reading few more posts, the alpha, which is where I'll be allowed in, isn't even scheduled to start until September
Games under development have delays. No promises were made to you or anyone else regarding access dates. Some general time frames were talked about as goals but nothing was set in stone.
What you should have been aware of was that there was slim to no chance that the devs would deliver in the time frame they had hoped. No development ever hits those goals. Not EVER. Many large studios keep their hoped for time frames secret because some people seem incapable of understanding how unforeseen problems can crop up when you're literally inventing something new...
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Given how easy it is to relay info... and how hard it is to track if someone did... and lack of much that could be done to a person that did. It will be a long hard battle to gain a reputation and trust. Any violations of trust... would have your org blacklisted forever no matter what actions you took against your member.
The desire to have an org that archives and reports on events in game is good. But the idea that you'll have camera people there to observe is a hard thing. You could request an org make their own recording and send the video to you after. I just don't see neutral camera ships being allowed anywhere near a battle.
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I still don't know why people talk about those alts getting access to some restricted/private area/base. That's not what this idea is about. Period.
@Fitorion: that's why I said there will be a public list of alts from duhs personnel with the main char linked. An alt is better in certain situations than the main, because naturally people will shoot other factions on sight.
I completely agree with alts/neutrals being a threat by just being there. But if you're at war, those "enemy" alts who spai, read chat and so on will be there anyway. Duhs alts would only be there to record the battle from one more viewpoint
@DarkHorizon: indeed it was already talked about
as I said earlier, fair enough if you don't invite someone to your base. That's your choice. And ofc you can always use your new gamechanging construct as propaganda and publish it yourself (which mostly all orgs will do ofc). Duhs is just another immersive and rp type network to tell the second universe what you achievedHaving another set of eyes watching and relaying ship positions or warning of a ship in hiding about to flank you provides real advantages even if they are not actively fighting in the battle.
Any org engaged in a battle should treat all ships not their own as enemy combatants and destroy them.
In the real world Police ask News Crews not to broadcast live or report on their movements during active shooter or hostage situations. Doing so could tip off the bad guy that Police were about to move in... and cost lives.
In game there is no way to ensure that a "neutral observer" isn't relaying info to the enemy. They could be screen sharing... or be in their teamspeak... or other viop program... So neutral observers should not be tolerated by any org during a battle. Nice orgs might give you 1 warning command to leave before opening fire.
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neutral player? yes. Or who belongs to a neutral faction? yes.
Alt of a player with unknown allegiance? No.
In theme park MMOs I'm and alt-aholic. I like making characters and playing them based on the personality I make up for them. But in a game where we make the factions... and PvP and inter faction wars can have real painful consequences... Alts... as spys is a real threat. Simply being present ... even without weapons or defenses can provide another faction with valuable information. Like numbers and types of ships present... shipment times... and or what's being discussed on the local open channels...
Letting in a player from a neutral faction to trade is a calculated risk. And you can bar them from going places you don't want them. ...
Some group made up of alts... who's players main characters may belong to warring factions? No... they're not going to be let into areas that traders wouldn't have access to just because they have no weapons.
Basically my problem with the idea boils down to it being alts. If such an org wanted to cover things and required its members to not have any other characters... Throwing out those it finds violating that... Such an org might be granted access. Having them be alts though opens up too much risk of spying.
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I think you should be able to edit tiles that no one has claimed yet. So, while you de jure don't own a planet via territory claim, you, or an org, may be able to de facto claim it by making sure no one else does it.
I believe it has been confirmed that you can edit... build... mine... on unclaimed land the same as you would on land you claimed... just without any of the protections claiming the land bestows.
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so, since you need to hand craft ownership devices to control a single tile, how the heck can you ever control a whole planet? are you supposed to hand craft and place into every hexagon a unique territory control unit?
i cant see that working out with a space game that has hundreds of planets.
You don't. The members of an organization collectively might own a majority of a planet... But you or an Org isn't going to "own" a whole planet... likely ever. At least not in game system terms. ... unless you do indeed set out to ... as a group... put an ownership device in every hex.
The other way to "own" something is to have the power... man power... and will to use force to remove those you don't want and prevent those you don't want from trespassing. Then you own it by virtue of your ability to control who can travel to it whether or not the game says you do.
Also the political system could be used to establish broad "control" of a planet for larger empire and management purposes.
But my question concerning tile ownership... I wonder how deep and how far above mining and building rights go? Can we mine under other's tiles? Can someone park a huge station directly above you?
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Abandoned concrete buildings in long forgotten territories? Perfect place for a new org to set up shop - or pirates to hide.
Good setting for AvA as well.
And newbs to find resources dismantling old abandoned structures.
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yes, leaving the game world in an ever increasing barren state is bad.
if we assume you can harvest everything, it will not take long before all there is left is a barren waste land.
Covered in Storage buildings.... and offices and shops and player houses... just like real life.
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Ships are voxels, like planets or asteroids, so it is expected that the wreckage remains until someone interacts with it.
If someone just abandoned it sure... But what if it was "destroyed" in a battle? How Destroyed is it? When it dissapears in a blinding fire ball... what it left? A derelict hull full of holes that can be salvaged for its components? or neat boxes containing the materials that can then be looted by the ships that were engaged in the battle? Or Nothing?
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To come back to the topic, I think the question need to be answered on a gameplay side:
Planets resources are so huge that they are virtually inexhaustable, so the question is more like how could we interested in dealing with a resources shortage?
The expected answer is trade, but there is more:
- Industrial recycling : get rare stuff, avoid resources (and monney) wastage, build an eco-friendly industry and civilisation.
- scavenging : get easily rare stuff and make profit, prevent dangerous equipment and weapons from spreading, clean up wrecks which are a danger for navigation.
So, a recycling gameplay seems as interesting as a mining gameplay to me.
indeed. A player should be able to disassemble their own creations and get all the resources back... But I could also see abandoned structures remaining in the world and being able to go out and recover the resources that went into them. I'm not sure about ships... all of this is speculation anyway... but I haven't really seen much about what happens to a ship after it's disabled... does it blow up completely and the resources that went into it lost? or does it break apart and remain for salvagers to come collect it's valuable component parts?
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I really doubt it. Because once a troll org like that gets found out, everyone will stop working and talking to them. They may open up a new troll org so people have to learn again, but player names, and alts will be found out and villainised
And bounties issued... and heck an epic rescue mission could occur.
Broad dynamic systems mean bad things can happen and personal drama can unfold.
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All this talk about planets but forgot 2 things.....
moons and astroid belts. The moon bit is trolling but asteroid belts do add a significant element into the gameplay of finding large quantities of ore and who cares about some rocks in space?
I would imagine that belt mining would eventually lead to gas mining like in EVE...
The original posters concern as I understand it... is that the easily obtained materials will be mined out of a planet in short order... Which leaves new players no way to obtain the materials they would need to build a ship and go else where.
I'm of the opinion that if the game has broad enough systems for players to take on the rolls NPCs did in past games... and we have the right mind set as a community that other players are just as valuable a resource as any ore... then the community will invent ways to get new players into the game... transport them and get them set up in a roll they enjoy.
The Vanities/Fashion and other pretty things
in General Discussions
Posted
I want decals... lots of them. User created ones too... I'd prefer to be able to directly upload my own but I can see that potentially being a problem so... maybe have a contest every few months where 20 decals submitted by the community get added to the game.
Any way... I want to be able to drag, scale, and place such decals onto anything I own. Clothes... ship parts... my characters skin...
It annoys me greatly when character creation has jewelry and tattoos but they can only be toggled on or off... you can't move them... combine multiple... rotate or scale them up or down. Really frustrating.