Sparktacus
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Posts posted by Sparktacus
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I'd be interested to see how the numbers have changed over time, and how many players are logging in regularly.
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It's going to be interesting seeing what the return is for mining them.
At the moment, there is very little reason to leave the safe zone, as you can get pretty much anything in there.
If asteroids are giving the same stuff, are dangerous to mine due to combat, and a pain to find in the first place, the reward would need to be significantly better than just going mining on planet.
It'd be like trying to encourage me to go and buy beer in a bad neighbourhood on the other side of town. Sure, I might get more for my money, but I can get it closer to home, and not risk getting carjacked. -
1 hour ago, le_souriceau said:
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Yet, with all this I more and more suspect that NQ secretly planning wipe (at least as plan <B>), sort of all-in "fresh start". Because current one to large extent failed (sure, it in eye of observer, but for me its quite obvious).
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I really, REALLY hope they are, to be done in line with new content.
Yes, it will piss a lot of people off, but at the moment, people already are, and aren't playing the game. With a wipe (preferably a scheduled one we know about well in advance) I'd hope to see a return to some of the fun "It's all going anyway, so lets go shoot stuff!" attitude that led to people actually doing things in game.
Obviously, without the core gameplay loops becoming something entertaining in their own right, it's not a fix, but it would at least be a step in the right direction, and a very, very necessary one.
To any at NQ reading this - if you are considering a wipe, and keeping it quiet, don't be shy! A wipe would be a great thing for the game in it's current state IMO. -
Gotta say, I'm currently the most active member of my group by a long way, and all I'm doing is logging in daily to buy raw mats on the market, and sell a refined product to make sure i;ve got the cash to buy schematics, on the off chance that the game becomes something worth playing again in the future.
That's literally it.
I was actively recruiting and recommending the game to people, right up until the Beta launch. While the game was in Alpha, the community was much more active, and I reckon that was down to the fact that we all knew that our assets weren't permanent. We knew there would eventually be a wipe, maybe more than 1, so going out and doing organised fights was something people were up for. After all, if we lost stuff, so what? Not like it was something we'd be keeping in live, so we could afford to have a bit of a laugh with it and have some fun.
Now that the game is in Beta, we're ostensibly in the live environment. Losses affect the live game, and without a scheduled wipe, those losses are long term.
With no reason to fight, why should I risk it? There's nothing to gain in real terms by going and fighting, so why should I risk my assets to do it? It's not even as if the combat gameplay is even that enjoyable, and it's certainly not worth all the grinding you'd need to put a fleet back together afterwards.- Demlock and Anaximander
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Having just landed, and switched the links on my radars so I can detect things on planet, I fully agree!
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On 1/8/2021 at 11:34 PM, Demlock said:
Most of my people are playing other games.
If Novequark doesn't turn this game around and make PvP, discovery/exploration, mining and events fun and truly worth enjoying with:
- less effort
- Less tedium
- Less ridiculous mechanics that make people want run their hands through a wood chipper
Along similar lines, my entire operation has been stood down, with my players elsewhere. I have several prolific builders completely walking away from the game at present.
The only other thing I would add to Demlock's point is that we also need a reason to fight, i.e. something to fight over. It's all very well having combat in the game, but unless there is a reason for players to fight one another, then it's going to be a limited lifespan at best. -
So, I was doing some mining recently, and noted that the price of Coal had dropped through the floor at my local market, as all the bot sell orders had been fulfilled. Not a major issue, I just flew to a market where there was still a decent price.
What I did notice however, is that the buy offers for materials are wildly variable, and often very low even by comparison to the "Normal" bot buy rates.
Over time, that will stabilise, but it did give me an idea of how we can speed that up.Real world, currency used to be based on a fixed value of a given material, generally Gold Or Silver, which helped provide a basis of transaction. People could agree if something was worth more or less than Gold/Silver, and things could be valued against that. Over time, when coins started to be made of things other than precious metals, the nation minting the currency guaranteed the non-precious coins against a certain quantity of the precious material (Silver in the UK, hence Pound Sterling).
That all got abandoned in the real world over time, as the value of money became more broadly agreed on.
We're still in a very young market, with a currency who's value is still being established. If NQ were to implement a currency standard, I reckon that would really help get the market running smoothly.The way I see that working would be:
- NQ decide on a material, and a value. (I'd suggest a T1 Material, as it's something everyone will be able to lay hands on, and have a use for.)
- Aphelia will then buy and sell that material (and that material ONLY) at that rate, from a dedicated market at the Arkship (or close by)
- All other Bot buy/sells are then either removed, or not refreshed when they're fulfilled.
What do people think?
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On 12/10/2020 at 1:12 AM, Bobbie said:
I'd be interested to hear what makes you take it back. I haven't been in game yet except to collect my daily stipend. How is this patch different from what you thought it would be?
It was the sheer cost of the schematics, coupled with the fact that you need a schematic for literally everything, even the things you can already do in your pocket.
They seem to be addressing the T1 level, but at time of writing you were looking at 300k to refine the 4 Tier 1 ores, another 375 to get you the 5 Tier 1 products, and a further 450k to do the intermediary parts. That's well clear of a million just to get producing the intermediaries on the initial maths. Ludicrous. -
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So, I quite like this change, but it's absolutely not something that can be injected into the game in the state it is.
There is little enough for players to do in the game at the moment. This will make building constructs significantly harder for people, taking that activity out of reach of many. That leaves us mining, and flying around in space shooting at other ships. With little to no reason to engage in the latter.
If this is something that's going to work, it needs the whole game to be on board.
- Atmospheric combat, not just space
- Incentive to engage in combat (strategic benefit to holding certain areas such as fighting over resources)
- Resource sinks such as power to make sure that, once up and running, there's an ongoing cost to running a factory other than feeding it mats.
And most crucially...
- A full, comprehensive wipe.
Skills, mats, resources, reset the planets, delete all constructs, start all players back at the arkship.
Potentially allow people to keep blueprints so that all the design time that's gone into those isn't lost, but that's it.
- Kruzer, Splatinum and prophet224
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Oh yeah, and the trees not having physics sucks, but they used to regularly pop in and trash your ship, which sucked even more!
Definitely get why they pulled the physics. The playing experience is a lot better for it. I'm confident they'll solve the pop in problem at some point and bring the physics back, but for now I'm thankful for not getting sneak-attacked by trees! -
On 11/7/2020 at 12:57 AM, SirMaxxx said:
4. Gameplay. So I was a good boy and did all of the tutorials, so I know how to do stuff, at least in principal, but I really didn't understand why I might want to do stuff.
I guess I want to go to the moon and claim some territory, but why? I don't really see what's next (although I think there might be more tutorial when I get back to teh moon and place my TCU...)
"But Why?"
That question, right there, is the crux of it. Yes, the game has significant issues in a lot of ways, but for me none are more significant than the lack of reasons for players to interact.
As it stands, you can mine to get mats, build industry to make things, make ships from those things, and then go fighting. You can do any one of those stages and sell your stuff on to people who want to do the next stage.
But there is no reason to fight, as fighting is space only, and there is nothing in space to fight over. Safe space has everything you need, without risk, so there's no point going out into PvP space unless you want to go for a fight, and sadly combat is not a satisfying experience in and of itself.
Without people losing ships or equipment, the demand for new ships is minimal, which affects the builders. The builders have no customers, which means they don't interact with the industrialists, who don't interact with the miners.
Just one example, but it follows through for the rest of the game. You cant be a trader when no-one's buying goods, etc etc.
I'm really glad you asked this, as a new player. My org had a big influx of players as Beta launched, and nearly all of them have since unsubscribed, as there is nothing meaningful for them to do now that we've got everything established, so you're far from alone in thinking it.
There really is a lot of potential in this game, which is why I've been playing it, but I must admit to asking myself that same "But Why?" question a lot of late, and I really don't like that. -
29 minutes ago, unown006 said:
Thats a Alligence somthing anyone can do it nor do I see a problem with it
So there's only issues with large numbers of players collaborating if theyre in the same org?
Whilst we know almost nothing about combat, I'm fairly confident that a 100 players from a single org, or 100 players from 10 co-operating orgs will have roughly the same effect.
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8 hours ago, unown006 said:
Eve is also 16 years old so that would not be a very fair comparison I think what may be better for that would be either keep stars or a Palatine Keepstar (as this could represent the cost of making a good to impossible deffence system as a reference however I see what you mean Now on the topic of alt spam That may not be possible do to future rules (NQ Banning it) And If they do Alt spam they still need to pay for dacs whitch may not be as viable as it is with eve
You don't even need to alt spam. A group of allied smaller orgs who give each other rdms access would have the same effect. And I think they would have a really hard time putting in a mechanism to stop that. It's a civilisation building mmo, people collaborating is a core concept.
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If it becomes the case that auto defences can hold against serious numerical advantage, then fights with close to balanced sides become massively weighted towards the defender.
If that happens, then the only viable attack tactic will be overwhelming numbers. That will exacerbate the "issue" with big orgs, as smaller orgs wont be able to muster enough force to take anything on, so the big orgs just wander around with impunity.
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1 hour ago, Lethys said:
Yes you need numbers.....So what? That's what an MMO is. Those who organise and help each other will be way more powerful than anyone else.
If you op such a turret you have WAY more and other problems.
^^ That.
Auto defenses are there to serve 2 purposes for me
1) stop casual raiders blowing you up for a laugh.
2) Make things a bit more interesting for those who make the decision to come and make a concerted attack on you.
They shouldnt ever stop a co-ordinated team from taking your base when unmanned. They should make sure that theres a bit of a cost for doing so (repairing damage etc)
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23 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:
I agree with @Lethys in this, a single person should not be able to resist the hordes of BOO or TU or DSI or any organization +100.
If you want to go solo then dig in deep or be mobile but remember if you just sit on the surface you might get blown to pieces. That is what organizations are for and that also means single person organizations or smaller ones will in the end have a hard struggle or need to organize into something bigger else they will also be shot to pieces, specially if the location they picked is on of interest. Combine that with the possible expensive Territory units it is almost impossible to easily run a one man org or something close to that.
Absolutely agree there.
What I want to avoid is there being no cost or risk to attacking a ship.
An unarmed ship is basically a pinata, no risk to hitting it on the off chance something good falls out.
If there is some form of defense on the target, you need to weigh up whether the loot you get from attacking is worth the damage you get in return, however minimal. Sure, a dedicated combat ship vs a freighter, 1 on 1, you should still win, but youll take a few hits in return, and that will cost a bit to repair.
With that in mind, if there is no automated option, you have 2 choices
1 - fit a manned turret, and only ever fly when youve got a friend willing to sit in your ship waiting to use it on the offchance something happens
2 - go unarmed entirely, and accept youre a going to be a pinata for anyone who fancies it.
I really dont see it as likely that we'll have large groups of players flying around hunting down lone ships. I think its much more likely that we'll see lone players or small groups of 2 to 3 doing that, and thats what im talking about these defenses being for - not to win the fight, but to give the attackers some form of consequence for attacking so they at least have to consider if attacking a target is worth it.
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Just now, Lethys said:
Even with them, they don't (And shouldn't) stand a chance. First because balancing and second because one player!=100
Correct. All im looking go for is for a to be able to shoot back a bit so its not a free kill for a single seat attack ship, and not have to haul a gunner about with me on otherwise dull cargo runs.
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6 hours ago, unown006 said:
Love to see it when NDA drops
Its on my to do list as soon as it does. As i say, hate leaving things on a vague note.
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7 hours ago, CoreVamore said:
There is nothing to stop people from building games within DU itself. We have paint-ball in real life, why not paint-ball arena's in DU (or similar/other forms of games). That way people who are just after combat (cause all other forms of game play are 'boring') can get their pew pew fix and the rest of us can get on with building worlds
Providing the engine supports that, sure, not a bad idea.
Personally, id like to be able to build/edit smaller ships while aboard a larger moving ship, as I want to be spending most of my time shipbuilding.
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12 minutes ago, ShioriStein said:
Travel to exploring new world ( this take most time if you really want to do it) you have to account that there will be boring time no ? You have many character you can switch to do other stuff ?
I agree the game have to be fun and there will be many job and aspect but what i say here you say travel is boring. But is it boring with pirate who are waiting to see any prey around ? If the router too short ( not jump other system ) then the pirate player will be sad because it too short for them to do any "emergent" thing but the player who are traveling will feel happy because the router is short so they can do other thing. So what should we do here ? Fun of the pirate or the travel ?
So in the end i really dont know what you want about interplanetary travel.This is why im so conflicted about multiple characters. It does resolve the problem of downtime for travel, but it just dosent seem right somehow.
As I say, still trying to work out why myself.
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1 hour ago, ShioriStein said:
Good time yes, bad time yes, fun time yes and boring time also yes. So you cant never have fun all the time because boring time make you feel what is fun time.
I absolutely, fundamentally disagree.
Games are meant to be fun to play. I do not spend my free time playing them, to be bored.
If there are significant gameplay loops that are little more than watching a screen, that is going to significantly detract from the experience.
Now of course, there are lots of different gameplay loops. Mining, building, fighting etc, you dont have to like all of them. But players should always have something to do in order to keep them engaged and entertained by the game.
If thats not the case, youll find a lot of players just going and playing other games instead of DU, which would be a shame. This game has a huge amount of promise, but its going to rely on having a solid community of players im order to thrive.
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17 hours ago, dualism said:
I have long argued that distances should make a difference to actions in virtual worlds, but that the actual time a char requires to get there should not be wasted for the player. You thus need lots of useful things to do and thus break up a journey in some way, have things to do during the journey itself (holodeck, do some lua scripting, possibly upgrade ship systems during travel etc.), or have the ability to leave your journey on autopilot or in the hands of someone else...
Right up to that point, I completely agree. Time spent in game should be fun and engaging for the player.
But being able to swap between avatars and effectively change what region youre acting in instantly makes me twitch. It might be a good thing, leading to more players taking part in a given fight as everyone activates their combat avatars, but it still makds me twitch for some reason.
As I say, im conflicted. Still havent figured out why.
Have Active Player numbers been published anywhere?
in General Discussions
Posted
Sounds about right.