le_souriceau

I think main misconception from community about this developlment, that NQ still actually making game for players (so must be really bothered with feedback or do other things positivly contributing to overall success). I doubt it. As I see it, its now pretty much simulation of development/surivaval/waiting game for at least several years now. Like even latest conference video, look how sad they are, forced to pretend to be exited or something. Entropy face alone like "please, adventurer, end my misery". I doubt they (actually) have any faith left themeselves in what they are doing (everyone can see all 200-300 people still playing). So, as long Quanta Nick bankrolls whole thing (why is another question), it will stay same. Just slowly make something that looks like development moving forward, with fancy named updates (changing nothing, or even making it worse) and keep your linkedin profile ready. At least, its my impression of actual sad logic behind all this. Why its happening.

Yes, this globaly going to be the case of "too little, too late". Is extreamly hard for MMO to regenerate population once momentum is lost. Its probably just several exeptions in gaming history, if any. I think breaking point was november last year, when still a lot of people were hanging around in hopes of positive changes, but got only kick in balls by 0.23 and half of year of damning silence when JC gone. This why full (almost full) wipe is imminent as last resort "defibrillator charge", even if some representitives of current token population deeply resentful to such prospect (for obvious reason of self-preservation). SB mucked up in visualy similar manner, but with bit different internal workings. NQ burned mostly on piles of lying (about actual state of game) and atrociously slow speeds of developing. FB is much more honest, technicaly capable and fast, but they done some gameplay priorities criminaly wrong, betting too much on wrong horses (that 99% run off). Both games released without viable sets of content, even for alpha/beta, its in common.

Initial thought: this is hilariously late. But I guess there is now even less hurry then before, as long Quanta Nick bankrolling whole farce.

Likely "per capita" alts currently highter, because between people still playing -- most stubborn and invested-sunken-cost ones surivived better, people who have sometimes up to hundred alts in extream cases (not nessesary they loggin in all everyday, but still). Personaly, I think we around 1000-1500 actual unique human log ins daily (many just for daily money) and 100-150 concurrent in terms of actual players, maybe 200-250 at week ends prime time or PvP event-battles. Game is objectivly empty. Not very scientific metric, but it shows almost zero global interest now: https://twitchtracker.com/games/493826

@RugesV, we can return to same discussion in 1 year (if you still be there here with same enthusiasm). I'll even admit I was wrong, if it will be the case.

I see no future for game without full wipe. It was pretty much predestined from mucked up Beta Launch. There is 2 principal reasons (to degree when 1 of them is already enough): 1) Game population too low to be viable on subs level -- it will demand very good restart, adverts/hype, attracting tens of thousands of players (to form big enough re-vitalazing wave), these new people will be not interested to jump into world with 3 years of hoarded assets against them (at best, if launch is really 2022), maybe more. No ammount of mental acrobatics will help against fact, that people like to join fresh starts more, especialy if its persistant and competive setting. 2) Game itself not viable without good territory warfare, but current world disign on many layers not support it -- size of planets, resources, starting locations, contested grounds -- all must be reworked. But its makes very little sense with people brining in picture trillions of assets or even holding all current tiles, sometimes with armies of alts (issue likely be endemic during passive mining update). NQ obviosuly super interested in keeping it silent, because they need at least current token population until real deal is ready. If they manage to do something of DU long-term without wipe, I will be super suprised.

It demands certain critical mass of people and hype to kickstart "political" layer on sustainable level (with all kind of people creating groups and dreaming to dominate world). Old players mostly burned out at this point or too few. So NQ need new ones. Considering DU "release" (even if rather techincal event by itself, more importanly -- serious advert mobilization possibility) at best in 2022, maybe 2023, it means, that.. whole thing will go to next round of life cycle with like 3-4 years old legacy of several hundred most stubborn people grinded out immense ammounts of assets, billions, trillions, all competitivly important skills etc. I find this ultra questionable for any meaningful restart, but people obviously have tantrums just hearing W-word.

Yeah, I agree, that current more "grounded up" approch is obviously better, then JC era crap. Still, personaly I kinda burned out on game become sort of Landmark-2 where few people grind and build just for sake of it in near-singlplayer, bubbled alienated experience, sitting in immensly large, but immensly empty 3d space/world. I was expecting something like EVE, with politics and stuff, but nothing like this survived.

Yes, exactly, 0.23 fart just RIPed causal PvE players (majority of DU players at the moment of event). Between players who still around to defend system, its pretty much old mega "rich"* 24/7 hoarders/flippers, who still kinda sitting of sunken cost fallacy of 1000s containers/machines/billions, saying like game is cool, give it time, long haul thing. It totaly unclear for me what the even do in empty world with all this (grind for sake of grind?), but I guess its actual shrinking of "niche" of gameplay in terms of audience. Natural phenomena. * to extent one can be rich in near singleplayer enviroment

And its ok actualy! I think critical thing, that was somewhat missed in smoke of events and problems, is that player base kinda... refined/adapted to actual state of game, in sort of natural selection. Initialy it started with somewhat EVE-inspired pool of big dreamers about space empires and grand politics. They left. Then it was more humble, gounded level of group pvp/pve gameplay hopes -- but majority of people found little of "food" here too. Left mostly. Now its pretty much solo meditative experience for middle aged men with bit of exessive time on hands. They need no challange, nor goals to achieve and very little of game even -- just some sci-fi toys to play around in their own... hate to use "autistic", but let's say, alientated bubble. Maybe its even for better, like now NQ has mostly audience up to level of their development, people who they can handle and even make relativly happy (and slowly build up without stress from more demanding audience).

Well, people who still playing or hoarded a lot of stuff before (and care about it) obviously super butt sensetive to have no wipe. NQ kinda promised no wipe long ago, but in very dodgy way and under older JC leadership (means promises worth shit now, in much changed realities). I personaly (subjectivly) see no way NQ can pull effective "retail release" without wipe of stockpiles/money. Again, long topic and one where you cannot persuade anyone. Too much personal egoistic interests at stakes.

They "crucified" him not for issues -- overall DU community was immensly tolerant on bugs and horrible perfomance for very long time. People gone for him mostly for bad (lack of) comms and outright lying about game state, like ledengary "no red flags".

Thanks for answers. This basicly what torments me with whole this DU discussions -- they can fix bugs, balance, add (some) content even, nice, but how game will be able to rekindle lost momentum in terms of population? Because all we know how empty MMOs vulnerable and how hards its to reverse bad trending of self-fulfiling prophecy -- of "dying" game. This makes me bit pessimistic, so I see wipe as sort of "last hope magical button", its probably not, but I just have no any other realistic idea how it can be done. DU seems to be beyond salvation by gradual improvment, some sort of shock therapy tempting. Maybe new system on release, that blocked from older players, but they just start making alts like crazy, so not sure how its end up.

Culprit here is also extreamly stupid DU PvP systems, combo lack of meaningful 1-seaters, high price celling for competitive ships, skills (alts) pressure -- all this lower chances of more solo/casual/pve people even be bothered to try pvp, because it seems hopeless for them (and for good reason). Its one of fundamental "killer" flaws of DU, that choking game since start.

This "content" basicly just several additional ships parts you may use. You can as well just buy them, saving up on daily money/Т1-Т2 ore sales and forget about whole trouble (no need to mine all ores or do all chain of things for them). Thing is, if you not pvper or into some organizational affairs, solo player with not much playtime, basicly only content you have: 1) hauling NPC missions 2) playing around voxels/lua until you die from old age Nothing else to do in game for you, realisticly.

You never get such explanation because its not something they want to say. NQ started Beta absolutly naked assed without content or mechanics (they barely made shy steps in this regard 1 year later), so to "strech" this blatand emptyness, they retrospectivly increased grind x10, locking everyone out of already achieved progression. Its 33%. Whole idea "not everyone need to be able to craft everything" also was very hard lobbied up to JC face by particular people with access to his ears. As good idea, presumably. This another 33%. Final 33% -- its all aligned with JC's own bullshit of constantly talking about player specialization, but giving them zero mechanics or reason to actualy do so (beyond small cast of builders of decorative voxels). So it happened. Yet, people not that stupid and refused to eat this shit and dropped DU in rows. Fundamental reason of failure not even schematics (they just made things degrade much faster), economy of DU, even with them never happening, -- fundamentaly flawed. Its one big afk overproduction (with huge additional megaload of exploits) against tiny-tiny, irrelevant sinks. Its hopeless formula.

Answer honestly 5 simple questions: 1) Is this game in critical need of a lot of new players to surivive? 2) Is this realisticly achievable any other way then doing huge advert campaign for future official "release" in 22? 3) Is this is highly competitive game? 4) Are veterans at point of such "release" will be tiny minority? 5) Are new wave people be more interested to join for equal fresh strart or joining world, where they 3 years behind veterans?

They actualy done it anyway, expoliting shit out of game like forever, enjoying total NQ neglegence, by running tutorial repetition in scripted sequence on 2nd/3rd PC. Billions was made such way. Not sure if it was even fixed. So argument kinda ironic.

Why should they care? Even if they kill everyone, they can just mine asteroids by themeselves. Or take a brake and rest. Then kill everyone again. They not really winning anything by "mercy". Initiative fully on their side.

It was very long time coming (and discussed with great accuracy of predition in private talks). During this winter/spring stage was already pretty much set: 1) Atom was clearly gaining momentum (due very sucessful leadership and efficient politics). 2) BOO, main realistic competitor of Atom, largely gone from DU (first to sleep, now to SB); 3) Sneaky and his rowdy buddies are too few, even if very experinced (so in no position to to change balance fundamentaly). 4) NQ gone for particular "piece meal" version of asteroids, extreamly motivating surviving DU PvPers to go full monopoly mode. So there is just no PvP entity that can check Atom (now even larger Legion). They become kinda masters of this ruined world beyond happy Landmark-2 reservation in SZ.

You are last ledendary white wolf of NQ : ) When game dies and become ruins, you will live in them, guarding lost treasures (alonside with cursed skeleton of landmarkexplorer) and then some adventurers can kill you and get xp and loot.

Its chronic issue of DU since start of player interaction with actual builds. And reason for so much alienation around. They always so behind any deadlines, that its boils down to release "at least something" by burning date. There is no time or resources to ensure quality of realeases (PTS not used as intended). I think, in twisted sense they even secretly hate feedback (especialy critical one) as additional annoyance between them and this sweet checkbox to mark as "delivered feature".

Its 8th year of development actualy, its started in 2014.

Yeah, obviously, whole idea presumes they do serious changes in lot of fundamental things. Just wipe and roll it as it is now -- completly useless affair.

Question is what will be state of seat to return. Realisticly they likely hard wipe on official release (this why I hesitant to put any effort since .23). This needed to squeeze maximum hype from new wave of players, because genre is super competitive and no one will be glad to see 2-3 years worth of difference at day 1 of "new" game. Restart of competley failed economy will be nice bonus too. Sure, remaining vets will be in tantrums, but I feel it will be like choice for NQ of cut your leg or die.