VandelayIndustries
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Posts posted by VandelayIndustries
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Just now, Jake Arver said:
And you miss the point.. As NQ discussed this openly, it is not under NDA at all.
You missed the point. I was merely talking about the community in Discord was under NDA. And that community was pretty small, but overwhelmingly positive towards pvp back in alpha. Thats all I said.
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2 minutes ago, Palad1n said:
Its been a while, and I didn't realize that you no longer mine up voxels? o.O Wasn't the whole mining thing a big part of the game? So your saying folks just set up auto miners on the surface and then go collect the stuff periodically? I guess their voxel system is more broken and limited than I thought, as mining was one of the more enjoyable things I liked, hunting down ores deposits, creating data pads with results, selling those to the market.
Ya you just put down a mining unit and visit it like once every 3 days to calibrate or something. The only "hand mining" is if u visit asteroids. Their database couldnt handle all the digging or whatever, too expensive.
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1 minute ago, Palad1n said:
There have been tons of heavy mining going on for 12+ months now and the last time I logged in, I found dozens and dozens of huge underground caverns where ore use to be.
How long have you been gone? Because NQ did a terrain wipe and reset, and then removed planet mining completely. Its all auto-miners that afk put ore into containers.
- blundertwink and Hazaatan
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44 minutes ago, blundertwink said:
I don't agree.
I think the only technology worth anything is the voxel tech -- the voxel to mesh algorithms and the voxel editors.
As far as I know, NQ didn't develop technology to make single-shard a possibility.
This technology was already viable because of how cloud-based infra works, and NQ has famously leveraged AWS to do this (vs. trying to build their own stack as some other companies do).
This idea that it's one server isn't true -- it's still many servers working in a cluster, with instances going in and out of the cluster as needed.
Power consumption isn't the issue, because that's not how AWS charges. CPU, memory, and read/write ops on a database like Dynamo is where things get really expensive. AFAIK AWS hasn't drastically raised prices recently (if that's not true please LMK, it'll affect my day job lol).
They over-leveraged these easy-to-use services early on, then realized it was too expensive...because NQ is the exact opposite of an "expert" in server tech. They made really obvious mistakes that many first-time devs do: not designing for scale, then had to cut back.
Even with them utilizing these services at their highest, it probably wouldn't be too expensive if they had ~100,000 subs or so. The issue isn't just cost, it's that their sub base is so low -- in a scaled-out subscription model, there's always a ton of players under-utilizing the infra that more than make up the hardcores playing all day.
I do agree that there's tech worth something, although it's hard to say if others will really see the value and I don't believe NQ has had much luck in developing useful server tech other than their core voxel systems.
Well im just done with Voxel building stuff, I dont see the appeal. Maybe sometime down the road when things get better with technology. But as i see DU and Starbase think that the building is the main part of the game, and that just seems to bring out a niche amount of people. And forget to make an actual game around it. Then on top of that I hear arguments from people tell me "then just buy a ship from someone!". Ok thats great in all, but then what do i do with those bought ships in DU. As nothing looks appealing. And AND AND, if that is your suggestion (which ive been told by multiple people) then maybe building shouldn't be the main part of the game. I would love to be proven wrong and have DU go to release and launch and have a healthy player base and continue to grow, but the reality is I dont see that. They dont focus on fun, and their tech really doesnt work. Yes pop is low because of the wipe talk, but reality is it was bad even before that. now its just 'really bad'.
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27 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:
The choice to go for CvC first was very publically announced so all of that is not under NDA at all. In fact, NQ mostly just bypassed NDA and talked openly about these things.
NQ wasnt under NDA thats not how it works. NQ can say what they want it was the backers who were under NDA. Thats why you couldnt stream, post screen shots, youtube, etc. And it was hubris of NQ thinking they could then separate the community and it would work. YES lets take 2 of the most different playstyles ever, and place them in the same game world. Thats why we are where we are right now and the game will continue to be worse and worse.
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11 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:
NQ is basically lifting part of a mechanic from EVE again but fails to understand and so fails to implement the bigger picture.
In a 1:1 compare, players do not produce for a finished construct, they set up industry to specialize in certain elements. And when you bring adjustors to market, the output levels will be significantly higher than when you create expensive containers, and we're talking probably triple digit percentage differences here, so the cost for the schematic is effectively much lower per unit produced.
At 5000 quanta, a container schematic should build 10, while an adjustor builds 10,000
Another thing is that the system NQ now copies is not designed for an industry system which uses a variety of different machines, It is designed to be what determines what a single machine will output.
Overall, I really feel NQ does not understand the impact the change will have because they are not considering it and so have not looked into it. And everything we are seeing tells us that this is already done and scheduled to be patched soon, all the feedback in he world is irrelevant as they are about to repeat the 0.23 mistake again.
And by removing schematics form markets, NQ is removing an opportunity for trade as players can no longer go and buy schematics from remote planets and offer them for sale on Alioth. Once again NQ is pulling an activity and turning it into a UI interaction only.It all feels like NQ is really trying to remove any actual activity or interaction with the world itself for some reason and keep it all in the UI.
NQ is actively trying to destroy any reason to be a single shard game, with every new "patch" they put out. Its a rather amazing accomplishment when you think about it.
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4 hours ago, CptLoRes said:
And this is also part of why I am strongly against any kind of wipe leading to players losing resources.
Not because it is necessarily a bad idea, but because we told them clearly that the game was not ready for any kind of open beta with subscriptions. And yet they went ahead and did exactly that and made promises about player progression being "forever" to try and justify the subscriptions. So NQ made their bed, and now they have to lie in it.
And the way 'release' is shaping up is look very much to be a repeat of the same problem as with the 'beta' + subscriptions changeover, where we ALL know the game is not ready and that there will be many game breaking changes coming after 'release'. So if NQ breaks their promises and remove player resources at release, it is almost guaranteed the same will happen again after release also.
Exactly, and think about the sheer [filtered]ing hubris of them going live for "beta" 2 years ago. Its not beta then and its still not beta now when you cant figure out to do with FOUNDATION gameplay like industry, or whether or not to wipe. The only people left are hardcore nerds and people that are suffering from sunken cost fallacy. The titanic is sinking, get off before there are no more lifeboats left.
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56 minutes ago, blundertwink said:
Ah, joy. More gameplay that involves waiting on timers.
Auto-miners: wait for timers.
Schematics: wait for timers.
Talents: wait for timers.
So...mining, industry, and skills development is literally as engaging as watching a clock.
Casio must be feeling the heat of competition!
Again, no information about the wipe nor any acknowledgment of the concerns players have shared about how this will likely make industry more monotonous, grindy, and boring...
All the concerns players have shared will yet again be ignored, and yet again NQ will push out an update that will (yet again) be wildly unpopular, leading to more refactors down the road (yet again).
Its [filtered]ing crazy man. Everything is AFK timers. I know SC has its own problems but at least it calls itself alpha, and have you seen the mining in SC? For starters its in the pvp zone. Second its active. Actively searching for it, and actively breaking rocks then mining the good part. Then to top it off the high tier ore quantanium has a 15min timer in your cargo until it literally explodes your ship because its a volatile material so you have to race against time to get it to a safe refinery. Actual engaging gameplay that has some risk with high rewards. What a concept right?
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25 minutes ago, Knight-Sevy said:
This addition is a surprise.
But not a bad one.
I agree that the heartbeats may be too much. But anyway since I never play with the sound of the game, I would never have realized. My opinion may not be the most relevant.
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If not by all the devils, we will really have to talk about the mechanics related to the resurections nodes one day.
Why 7 years later we don't have anything that has been thought out for the game's balance with respect to the death mechanic :
I'm still waiting for the changes announced for PvP following the discussion on my topic of shields and venting mechanics.
Once that's dealt with, I guess the next workhorse will have to be the game's death mechanic.
LOL its amazing how far they have strayed from what was pitched to us. Most pvpers prolly have 20 rez nodes. And bounce all over in times to get somewhere quick for action. Back in the multi crew days, we would have people mine but have active rez nodes on pvp ships so they could just force respawn to be repair men when a fight broke out.
Resurrection nodes, and a players "home" could have been great things to help the MMO and civilization part. Suggestions made in past include only having 1 rez node ever activated at one time. If you activate another one it will deactivate your current. Another was declaring a "home" tile or static/space contstuct. That couldnt be changed lightly, tho could. This would tie in to residence/population and expanding tiles. Could help for further mechanics of elections, and how orgs grow. Also this ties in to only ONE org per character. Make people make choices, choices are fun, and then can create divide, then conflict and further the interaction part of the game. Also by having a "home" or residence you can enact some small buffs, like if you log out in your bed at home, you get 100 rate of skills increase instead of 90 or something. Just a small nudge. CARE about where you live and your choices. Also rez nodes only on static/space constructs. But alas....what we are left with is a game that is a shell of what it dreamed to be. Not even a shell, a broken shattered collection of pieces that once resembled a shell.
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7 minutes ago, Grimscale said:
If there trying to limit the size of factories a single player can run, then ditch the schematics or leave them be and limit the amount of assembler's you can run. But not like the shambling mess the ore miners turned out to be. this game should be Fun NOT time wasting tedium.
If it wasn't for the fact that I can skip the silly little mini game to get my miners running by simply closing the interface after spending the charge. I would have stopped playing.
Please don't turn this into some soft of click fest interface.
Its as if almost the industry gameplay is kinda shit even before schematics. Interesting gameplay could have been introduced like Power systems tied to cores. That make you pick and choose what you wanna run on your core. Also having 2000 machines to produce all these batches of 10 screws and what not just seems tedius. The whole thing needs a ground up rework....kinda like they did with mining....oh im starting to see a trend here. They dont know what the fvck they doing and this game isnt gonna make it 12 months after release.
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46 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:
A big freighter with a large mass and inertia should turn, accelerate and de-accelerate based on how much force you apply in any given direction, just the same as for a lightweight XS ship. Nothing more, nothing less.
sure, if there is adequate power supply so you cant stack 300 adjusters, 50 engines, 100 brakes, and...you get the idea.
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3 hours ago, blundertwink said:
Some will be mad, but I think there's a misunderstanding of the demographics if people think wiping the servers will "kill" the game.
The beta population is tiny. Too tiny to be a concern for NQ's bottom line. Especially betas on an actual subscription.
The difference between keeping all the beta players and losing them all is almost immaterial at the scale they need to achieve to stay solvent.
They needs 10s of thousands of subs to turn things around. To maintain at the scale of their company today, they'd probably need near 100k subs -- and $12 million/year in revenue isn't even enough for a company of NQ's size and costs.
So...NQ doesn't really care if every beta leaves because they decide to wipe or decide to not wipe. They'd rather keep us, sure...but they're going to do whatever believe will get them to that scale, and "will beta players leave" just isn't an important part of that calculation.
I agree with that. The population is laughably low right now. 30+ people I use to play with all quit ages ago. They need to make a splash and get new players. 50k subs I'd say minimum but probably closer to 100k like you said is needed.
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1 minute ago, blazemonger said:
Besides there being no reason to run these missions except for being able to boast about your massive bank account as they server no a single purpose in game, you seem to have trouble understanding what I am saying. There is no reason for non combatants to have business IN PVP space, while you may need to travel through it, ther eis no reason to be active in it.
And with the new changes this travel wil become even more tedious and take more time.
The "alien core" tag-on for the game wil not attract many, if any, outside of those looking for fights, just like is the case with asteroids in PVP space. As a player with no interest in PVP engagements I have no reason at all to venture in to that space and as said, unless I want to brag about the billions I make, there really is no reaosn for me to travel through it either
And as it stands, there is nothing left of the original idea of DU, no purpose or need for large scale groups in the context of interaction and co-operation. DU pretty much became a bigger version of Space Engineers with none of the featurs that makes that game great but with several independent and isolated groups of players all doing their own thing. And I see nothing that will change that. The original vision for DU is pretty much done for really.
And thanks for pretty much making my point
I do agree with you on some of that. A lot of it stems from separating pvp from non pvp players and content. In EVE non-pvp players exist in the same pvp game world as everyone else. If you undock, you are never safe. As CCP has stated, once you undock in eve, you consent to pvp. NQ's biggest problem is they have no idea or way to marry these 2 vastly different gameplay types. Like you said common goals and reasons for the non pvper to BE IN and risk pvp space. NQ's approach to saying "if you dont want to pvp thats ok you can have and do everything else in the game" doesnt work when you also try to tack on a hardcore full loot open world pvp system next to it.
- CptLoRes and blazemonger
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Just now, Koffye said:
That could be a option, but such changes will take a while. Lets talk in 5 years again about that again
True, but if NQ decides to make shields only go to their current Core size, that would automatically make L cores tankier, with LOW development. its the same thing they did to guns. That right there would give L cores a leg up in Alien core defense. Where the objective isnt to kill everyone, its to "hold the grid and win". Just saying that could happen quick, if NQ so choose to. Not saying they will but it could happen easy and fast if they wanted.
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4 minutes ago, Koffye said:
The advantages of an m-core currently outweigh those of an L-core. This is something I am not happy about.
Ok, but that can be balanced. Large cores can still use M/S/XS guns in conjunction with L guns. you can quickly switch seats based on what works best at that moment. Second, i think L cores should have the highest tank (higher shield HP and higher CCS curve or cap). In EvE your big Dreadnoughts are not used in normal roaming. But they do have a specific role for sieges/defenses. L cores should fall into that line. IMO, for DU pvp to be healthy, the main pvp ships should be S/M cores. And XS and L should be more niche, yet have specific roles they are good at, and situations where they are not so good. It would put a good balance for many cores in fleets, and add a good variety to the game that is desperately needed. Speed changes should just be the FIRST change, to many.
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2 minutes ago, blazemonger said:
The point here though is not really about that. These changes, ESPECIALLY in light of it being the last major patch before release, will skew enaggements in favor of "PVP gameplay"
The game at lauch wil lack any incentive or reason for non combatant players to leave the safezones as there is nothing htere that validates the risk. It is a major sortfall and cuts out a massive part of the original pland and design for the game.
Both the max speed and the statis weapon change are entirely in favor of aggressors and there is _nothing_ that anyone outside that group can do to counter it outsid eof maybe go the long way around which now wil take even longer than before and then the risk still is greater that it needs to be.
Your point of view seems skewed pretty bad and all over the place. So you are saying people that literally make 1billion per mission run isn't an incentive to go into the pvp zone? Right now they do it with near 99.99% success rate. So if that drops a little bit so what, to me thats better. Maybe armed convoys on the shorter mission runs will be the main content for that. I see nothing wrong with that. Maybe on fringe efforts or people will try to do the risky long missions that take 8 hours.
Second, the have you thought that people enjoy solo stuff, even the pvpers? I know MANY people who roam asteroids to look for pvp solo. Sure its slim pickens often but they do it. Guess what, a miner can have a smaller, faster ship, and use the stasis weapon AGAINST the pvper, and with their shields have time to run off grid and "win". Maybe they have to drop their ore to reduce weight, maybe not? But thats a choice they could make for survival. Regardless we need more info how they work, but im EvE webs are used for defense a LOT, to keep your enemy from getting to close to scram you because its easier to make webs go farther then scrams.
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1 minute ago, fridaywitch said:
At no point have I been toxic. You are the one telling someone that they need mental help over a simple statement about how speed in space works.
I said they MIGHT. And odds are they don't. But there are huge positive communities ive been apart of in EvE where they focus on mental health because its a factor that quite frankly effects all, granted to others not as much, or sometimes so little you dont notice it you just have a "bad day". But ive seen similar warning signs before and I think its always better to error on caution and bring it to light and he should reflect on that, and then decide for himself if maybe he should go further to seek a professional. I know you may not care and thats fine your under no obligation too, but its the little things like this, that can be that positive spark for someone. You never know.
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4 minutes ago, Sawafa said:
> Bro, this is a video game. Its not real life.
Bro, why do we use our ingame feet to walk in the game? This is a video game, why would we use the same concept as in real life? What does make you to think there is something wrong with relation between "In space there is no "max speed" " and "In game there should also be no "max speed" "? If you like different max speed depending on mass it doesn't automatically means it's the right or not right thing in game.
Your message about mental illness seems very toxic to me.
I don't I fly around, and I have no health or fall dmg. I jetpack around in space and do things that would kill me a million times over IRL. You make and base video games off of gameplay. That is if you actually want a player base to pay and play. This is also a business to NQ.
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3 minutes ago, fridaywitch said:
I don't see how someone stating that there's no max speed in space that there is something wrong with their mental health and that you and your medical degree is capable of diagnosing that over such a small amount of data. Your concern trolling isn't welcome.
If you want to choose to be toxic that's up to you. I've already explained it to you and the fact you chose not to read isn't my problem.
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5 hours ago, Wolfram said:
Wiping or not, I really want an answer from NQ. The way they keep going around the answer and pushing it forward is really giving a bad taste, similar to when scam games start "disappearing".
At least for me, if they go for wiping I really will pause my subscription until post wipe, as I don't see any point in investing time and money into something that's just going to disappear.
Sure, many other players *will* do the same, since there isn't really a point in investing when you know a wipe is happening, but if NQ keeps pushing it like that, by hiding information, I *really* hope they are prepared, because the backlash will be monumental and will be another stain on NQ's public image and public relations, similar to the whole Market 15 story.
I'm sure some will he mad, not blaming them. But me personally, my decision to continue to play or not has no bearing on a wipe whatsoever, so to me it's a complete non issue. If this next patch vastly improves pvp, and the next few mini patches are good, and they post a small "whats to Come after release" and it seems cool, I will 100% play post wipe. If this next patch sucks ass and they don't wipe, I won't be playing. Obviously other people feel different but this is just me.
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4 minutes ago, RugesV said:
But there is max thrust. IE if our engines only exhaust at 30k, once your going 30k your not going to go any faster. And if each one of those exhaust particles can only push so much mass. You could reach a point where with the same engine a lighter ship reaches the max speed that the thrust allows. where a heavier ship will not reach that max speed that the thrust allows.
Exactly. But what it boils down to is what gameplay NQ chooses. Maybe there is better ways, but would take longer to develop I can't say for sure as we all speculate. But the reality is most people seem to want new gameplay options as to how bigger and smaller ships perform, thus creating "roles" for ships in pvp and hauling. Options are what make games like this fun, where many ships/and ship builds can Excell in one area but maybe are bad in others. It's not fun when 1 or 2 types of ships can "do it all". Now sure we can debate how NQ chooses to implement it i.e these new speed changes, but the reality is it seems NQ is on a tight budget and a rush to release and make a final market push to make their game viable and sustainable and profitable. We shall see if their effort is enough soon.
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2 minutes ago, fridaywitch said:
that guy needs help because there's no max speed in IRL space? Got it.
Also, I don't see how I'm trolling or being toxic.
It's the warning signs. I've seen it before in EvE. I have gifted to Plex for good and Broadcast for Reps in eve that focuses on mental illness and mental health. People often dive deep into mmos and the early warning signs are confusing the game and real life. The early signs I've seen before start exactly like that saying that "since there is max speed in space IRL then there should be none in the DU game". That's what I'm saying. Maybe it amounts to nothing, which I hope, but if I can offer encouragement to rethink or get professional help if needed then it's worth it to me. Mental health is something every one should constantly work on, and encourage others too.
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6 minutes ago, fridaywitch said:
... and how is this constructive in any way?
I'm sorry that maybe you prefer trolling or being toxic, but people often need help. And being unable to distinguish real life from a video game is not good. Encouraging people to get help is the right thing to do, even if it's on a video game forum.
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3 hours ago, blazemonger said:
In space there is no "max speed",
Bro, this is a video game. Its not real life. IF you do not know that then I really hope you seek some professional help. Mental illness is a real issue millions are effected with, please take the first step to try to find a professional to help you out. Good luck I hope things get better for you.
NEW SCHEMATICS - Discussion Thread
in General Discussions
Posted
this is in Star Citizen and is by far the funnest mechanic for me. I use it all the time.